High School Boys are Trending Conservative

[Skill and Chance]

There is honestly an easy way for progressives to fix this. If they emphasize the ways traditional gender roles hurt males, more males would be inclined to support feminist causes and thus identify as "liberal" without any loss of female support.

This is so tone deaf.  It starts from the perspective that liberals are 100% correct about these issues, and everyone is just a blank slate that needs to be properly ~educated~ and then they’ll come around to the liberal point of view.  Unless they’re bad actors, of course, as that’s the only reason this education wouldn’t accomplish its goal!

“Gender roles” developed for many reasons that you can’t just chalk up to “patriarchy!  oppression!” and young men will not respond positively to the message that they just need to stop acting like men.

But liberals are 100% correct about these issues. None of the grievances that young men have with feminism are legitimate. None of them.

Explain this then:



Could be many reasons for this, but I don't think we can look at this and take it as a ground truth that the social changes of the past 50 years even made women better off, to say nothing of men. 

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

There is honestly an easy way for progressives to fix this. If they emphasize the ways traditional gender roles hurt males, more males would be inclined to support feminist causes and thus identify as "liberal" without any loss of female support.

This is so tone deaf.  It starts from the perspective that liberals are 100% correct about these issues, and everyone is just a blank slate that needs to be properly ~educated~ and then they’ll come around to the liberal point of view.  Unless they’re bad actors, of course, as that’s the only reason this education wouldn’t accomplish its goal!

“Gender roles” developed for many reasons that you can’t just chalk up to “patriarchy!  oppression!” and young men will not respond positively to the message that they just need to stop acting like men.

But liberals are 100% correct about these issues. None of the grievances that young men have with feminism are legitimate. None of them.

Explain this then:



Could be many reasons for this, but I don't think we can look at this and take it as a ground truth that the social changes of the past 50 years even made women better off, to say nothing of men. 

Fortunately this should be self-correcting. We've seen things like this happen before, and some kind of course correction still happened.

[DaleCooper]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

[DaleCooper]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

But in what ways was it mishandled though?

[Joe Biden 2024]

How much of this is due to actual conservative beliefs and how much of this is teenagers just trying to be edgy?

[DaleCooper]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

But in what ways was it mishandled though?

The whole gist of their philosophy was that all allegations are presumed true.

[oldtimer]

There is honestly an easy way for progressives to fix this. If they emphasize the ways traditional gender roles hurt males, more males would be inclined to support feminist causes and thus identify as "liberal" without any loss of female support.

This is so tone deaf.  It starts from the perspective that liberals are 100% correct about these issues, and everyone is just a blank slate that needs to be properly ~educated~ and then they’ll come around to the liberal point of view.  Unless they’re bad actors, of course, as that’s the only reason this education wouldn’t accomplish its goal!

“Gender roles” developed for many reasons that you can’t just chalk up to “patriarchy!  oppression!” and young men will not respond positively to the message that they just need to stop acting like men.

But liberals are 100% correct about these issues. None of the grievances that young men have with feminism are legitimate. None of them.

Explain this then:



Could be many reasons for this, but I don't think we can look at this and take it as a ground truth that the social changes of the past 50 years even made women better off, to say nothing of men.  

Fortunately this should be self-correcting. We've seen things like this happen before, and some kind of course correction still happened.

Computer, Video Game, Social Media overuse = Kids going out less = Kids less happy.

There should be a hard time-limit coded in their software.

After talking to some software engineers I noticed that they had increasing mental health issues the longer they used computers.

So I looked at youtubers (since they record themselves over long time periods) if they behaved increasingly weird over the years, if suffering obvious mental breakdowns.
I counted on average about 7 out of 10 of them having developed obvious mental issues over 10 years.

Their peak madness during the Coronavirus plague, looked like cabin fever.

[Ferguson97]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

But in what ways was it mishandled though?

The whole gist of their philosophy was that all allegations are presumed true.

What is wrong with that philosophy as a cultural value? We're not talking about a court of law.

[DaleCooper]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

But in what ways was it mishandled though?

The whole gist of their philosophy was that all allegations are presumed true.

What is wrong with that philosophy as a cultural value? We're not talking about a court of law.

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

[DaleCooper]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

[DaleCooper]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

[WalterWhite]

I also think a lot of it was a pushback from the feminist movement of the 2010s. It was probably a combination of outrageous statements from some over-the-top feminists as well as right-wingers portraying feminism in a negative, "anti-male" light that caused many young boys to view feminism in a negative light. It is also important to note that this is during the peak "anti-SJW" phase of the internet, where feminists were portrayed as overly sensitive activists who blamed everything on the patriarchy. #MeToo also likely contributed to this, with people portraying it as an attack on men and parody/troll accounts that, to the untrained eye, appeared to be race feminists claiming that men should accept false rape charges.

I genuinely think that high school boys, just like most people of this generation, are liberal on social issues (support LGBT rights, abortion, drug decriminalization, etc...). They just stopped identifying as "liberal" and started identifying as "conservative" because whether or not their concerns were justified, they found the feminist movement of the 2010s too abrasive. To further highlight this point, I think that the anti-feminism (opposing abortion and LGBT rights) around which the Republican Party is starting to campaign is not only abrasive but also incompatible with the views of the younger generation; this could probably explain why high school boys are starting to abandon the "conservative" label as of recent.

I also genuinely think people such as Andrew Tate are hurting young boys' perception of anti-feminism. If a major critic of the anti-feminist movement is incredibly misogynistic and homophobic, the head of a pyramid scheme, and a human trafficker, I believe the public perception of anti-feminism would worsen amongst all demographic groups, regardless of age or gender.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

[DaleCooper]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

They'd have to be separated until an investigation is done.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

They'd have to be separated until an investigation is done.

What about other co-workers who feel uncomfortable working with someone accused of rape?

What about a teacher accused of raping a student? Should they keep their job pending an investigation?

[WalterWhite]

I think this all ties into the GOP overplaying its hand in culture war issues. During the mid-late 2010s, the GOP could claim that the DEMs were too invested in culture war issues and not focusing enough on actual policy. Nowadays, it is the exact opposite; DEMs criticize the GOP for playing too much into the culture war.

My only conclusion is that this demographic of voters hates the culture war.

[DaleCooper]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

They'd have to be separated until an investigation is done.

What about other co-workers who feel uncomfortable working with someone accused of rape?

What about a teacher accused of raping a student? Should they keep their job pending an investigation?

A teacher would likely need to be put on leave. I don't know if that would be paid or not. If they are innocent then there should be reimbursement for sure.

As for the other people who aren't willing to work with someone accused of rape, that's why this shouldn't be done publicly. Another huge problem I have with MeToo is that very serious allegations are made on Instagram now. And also, what is the solution to that? If no one is willing to work with someone accused of rape then presumably the results of an investigation don't matter much. The accusation never goes away. So are people who have been accused of serious crimes never allowed to work again? Society would be much better off if this was handled professionally. I understand why the high profile MeToo cases needed to be handled somewhat publicly because they were public figures who in some cases had abused their corporate influence to get away with things a very long time, but there's no excuse for the whole office (and the whole internet for that matter) to know that Employee A accused Employee B of doing something terrible.

To get back to your initial question, the reason that this is a terrible cultural value is because you will basically turn allegations of sexual misconduct into a surefire method of making somebody disappear, which is bad for society.

[Ferguson97]

A teacher would likely need to be put on leave. I don't know if that would be paid or not. If they are innocent then there should be reimbursement for sure.

As for the other people who aren't willing to work with someone accused of rape, that's why this shouldn't be done publicly. Another huge problem I have with MeToo is that very serious allegations are made on Instagram now. And also, what is the solution to that? If no one is willing to work with someone accused of rape then presumably the results of an investigation don't matter much. The accusation never goes away. So are people who have been accused of serious crimes never allowed to work again? Society would be much better off if this was handled professionally. I understand why the high profile MeToo cases needed to be handled somewhat publicly because they were public figures who in some cases had abused their corporate influence to get away with things a very long time, but there's no excuse for the whole office (and the whole internet for that matter) to know that Employee A accused Employee B of doing something terrible.

To get back to your initial question, the reason that this is a terrible cultural value is because you will basically turn allegations of sexual misconduct into a surefire method of making somebody disappear, which is bad for society.

It's perfectly rational to be uncomfortable around someone accused of a violent crime, especially rape. I understand where you're coming from, but everyone has a right to feel comfortable in the workplace. It's not a perfect solution, but you have to do something. Word is going to get out, and it often did pre-Me Too. Workplace politics have existed for as long as workplaces have existed. Even if you try and have the accused keep their job, it's going to have a deep impact on workplace morale and productivity. Very few people want to work with the guy that they think might follow them in the parking garage and take advantage of them.

[DaleCooper]

Yeah, I know. You have to take it on a case by case basis or it ain't going to be pretty.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/ZachG932/status/1686959395450531841

Its really just women changing massively for no explicable reason(60% of all college degrees go to women) and maybe a small slight reactionary shift among men but its all blamed on misogyny.

[Ferguson97]

Its really just women changing massively for no explicable reason(60% of all college degrees go to women) and maybe a small slight reactionary shift among men but its all blamed on misogyny.

It's wild that you can come up with an entire thesis on why men have moved slightly to the right, but it is completely beyond your comprehension why women may have moved sharply to the left in recent years.