Career path advice for an incoming college student?

[Electric Circus]

Networking is overrated.

But then again, I work in the Federal government where just because you know so-and-so whose daddy is so-and-so, or met a prospective "lead" at a happy hour function doesn't mean jack squat.

Do you have a favorite guide for formatting a federal resume?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

If you don't know what you want to do and you like math, then major in math. A math major is as strong a signal of general aptitude as you can get from a college major. Also study other things in college if you want (personally I had a couple other majors in addition), but taking that step will do a lot to make you employable without committing yourself in any particular direction.

This is good advice, but as a person who ended up with a math degree for this reason, I'll add that you should be ready for math classes that at some point depart very seriously from what you learned in high school. Specifically, one or both of abstract algebra or elementary analysis. Even before then, whatever your introductory class in constructing proofs may be difficult. Of course it's always possible that it comes naturally to you, but these classes are notoriously difficult because they reach levels of abstraction that undergrads have likely never seen before. It's a true trial by fire and it can do serious damage to your self-esteem if you are used to cruising through calculus based on intuition or having quick mental math skills.

In general I'll add that a math professor told me once "you typically don't truly understand what was going on in a math class until the semester after you take it." I had a number of classes like this and it's a philosophy I adopted whenever I've had to work with non-statisticians on their statistical techniques. Often you'll get a working understanding of what you're doing that is sufficient to pass the class but won't really be able to do it until you've had more than a semester's worth of practice.

[vitoNova]

Networking is overrated.

But then again, I work in the Federal government where just because you know so-and-so whose daddy is so-and-so, or met a prospective "lead" at a happy hour function doesn't mean jack squat.

Do you have a favorite guide for formatting a federal resume?

No.

My only pieces of advice:

DO NOT use walls of paragraphs-of-text on your USAJOBs resume.  Lots of old-skool fed folks mistakenly believe some OPM supercomputer only scans keywords; and that visual aesthetics don't matter.  (They absolutely do).  Provided you pass the initial screening, actual human beings are laying their eyeballs on your resume.  Use bullet points please.  

Just because a position is open for like 2 days on USAJobs DOES NOT mean the agency has an internal applicant in mind.  

Cover letters matter.  Unless the job announcement specifically requests not to include one.  But these are usually blue-collar jobs for like GS-5 tree-trimmers for the National Park Service in Bootyhole, Tennessee.  

[Jingizu]

Remember to have fun, too. Usually undergraduate years are the best time for it

[ProgressiveModerate]

If you don't know what you want to do and you like math, then major in math. A math major is as strong a signal of general aptitude as you can get from a college major. Also study other things in college if you want (personally I had a couple other majors in addition), but taking that step will do a lot to make you employable without committing yourself in any particular direction.

This is good advice, but as a person who ended up with a math degree for this reason, I'll add that you should be ready for math classes that at some point depart very seriously from what you learned in high school. Specifically, one or both of abstract algebra or elementary analysis. Even before then, whatever your introductory class in constructing proofs may be difficult. Of course it's always possible that it comes naturally to you, but these classes are notoriously difficult because they reach levels of abstraction that undergrads have likely never seen before. It's a true trial by fire and it can do serious damage to your self-esteem if you are used to cruising through calculus based on intuition or having quick mental math skills.

In general I'll add that a math professor told me once "you typically don't truly understand what was going on in a math class until the semester after you take it." I had a number of classes like this and it's a philosophy I adopted whenever I've had to work with non-statisticians on their statistical techniques. Often you'll get a working understanding of what you're doing that is sufficient to pass the class but won't really be able to do it until you've had more than a semester's worth of practice.

Haven't checked this thread in a while but I def resonate with this so far.

For my first semester, I'm taking an advanced number theory class where we have to do all these abstract sorts of proofs using mods, fibonnacci numbers, polynomials, ect, ect, though it's quite interesting. I think the difference is HS math is mostly close-ended using formulas to get one right answer whereas there are many ways you can prove something and you have to be somewhat creative. Def more work than any HS class and probably the most demanding of all my current college classes, but I enjoy it quite a bit and got a 28/30 on the midterm!

Right now I'm stuck on a problem where we have to prove the double angle formula using Fibonacci numbers and I'm mad confused, but what's nice is the professor grades the homework based on if you did work that at least shows you were seriously considering the problem even if it's ultimately incorrect, and then we review some of them in class.

I would say generally I've gotten a bit of a self-esteem hit academically across the board in college, but not catastrophic rn.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Remember to have fun, too. Usually undergraduate years are the best time for it

Def something I struggled with in HS, though I often think the mainstream college culture of getting black out drunk and just doing crazy stuff all the time isn't good, but I've def been able to find some nice people at college.

Still though, the fact you're seen as "less than" by such a large subset of students just because I don't want to do illegal things.

[Jingizu]

Remember to have fun, too. Usually undergraduate years are the best time for it

Def something I struggled with in HS, though I often think the mainstream college culture of getting black out drunk and just doing crazy stuff all the time isn't good, but I've def been able to find some nice people at college.

Still though, the fact you're seen as "less than" by such a large subset of students just because I don't want to do illegal things.

True enough. I think what I meant to say is that you should balance the academic and social sides of college out.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Update:

I'm almost done with my first semester, and so far with the classes I've been exposed to def still leaning towards a math major. The courseload was tricky but at least for this class the homework was at least somewhat interesting. Next it's what time of math; pure, applied, or stats (or a combo). I would prolly be more inclined towards applied or stats but I want to take more classes to find out.

I plan on taking Modern Algebra next semester which should be fun.

[支持核绿派 (Greens4Nuclear)]

From what I've heard a job that lets you make the world a better place/help people is often more meaningful than one with a lot of money.

Gonna push back on this one a bit.

Only take jobs that "make the world a better place" if that is truly where your heart is. Many of those jobs entail poor pay and high levels of stress/frustration, if not both.

There's no shame in getting a job that is just your 9-5 and pays the bills. You can make the world a better place and help people with the time, money, and stability that your boring job provides you.

For example, I'm an accountant at a bank. There's absolutely nothing sexy about this. Nobody tells their parents that they want to be an accountant when they are a child. Accounting is pretty dry and not very exciting, but it's something I am good at, I can tolerate it, and it pays me well. I make well above the median personal income and have a very high degree of job security and financial stability. It's this stability that gives me the peace of mind, free time, and money that allows me to volunteer at a homeless shelter and food bank, be active in a political party, partake in a neighborhoods activism group, and donate time, money, food/clothing, materials, and effort to various causes.

I know a lot of good people who went into careers like journalism, public policy, academia, nonprofits, psychology, healthcare, politics, etc. that entail making the world a better place, helping people, steering society, etc. to various degrees and many of them are honestly miserable. It's your life, day and night, and you have no break from it. You cannot escape it.

This is why I am fine with my life choice as an accountant. It's a 9-5 that pays the bills and enables me to do what I want outside of work, and gives me stability. There are days when I hate it, but when I sit back and think about my life, I am satisfied that I can do what I want with my life outside of work and get involved in things that interest me without it burning me out or me resenting my own passions.

There's absolutely no shame in doing the same for yourself.

[ProgressiveModerate]

From what I've heard a job that lets you make the world a better place/help people is often more meaningful than one with a lot of money.

Gonna push back on this one a bit.

Only take jobs that "make the world a better place" if that is truly where your heart is. Many of those jobs entail poor pay and high levels of stress/frustration, if not both.

There's no shame in getting a job that is just your 9-5 and pays the bills. You can make the world a better place and help people with the time, money, and stability that your boring job provides you.

For example, I'm an accountant at a bank. There's absolutely nothing sexy about this. Nobody tells their parents that they want to be an accountant when they are a child. Accounting is pretty dry and not very exciting, but it's something I am good at, I can tolerate it, and it pays me well. I make well above the median personal income and have a very high degree of job security and financial stability. It's this stability that gives me the peace of mind, free time, and money that allows me to volunteer at a homeless shelter and food bank, be active in a political party, partake in a neighborhoods activism group, and donate time, money, food/clothing, materials, and effort to various causes.

I know a lot of good people who went into careers like journalism, public policy, academia, nonprofits, psychology, healthcare, politics, etc. that entail making the world a better place, helping people, steering society, etc. to various degrees and many of them are honestly miserable. It's your life, day and night, and you have no break from it. You cannot escape it.

This is why I am fine with my life choice as an accountant. It's a 9-5 that pays the bills and enables me to do what I want outside of work, and gives me stability. There are days when I hate it, but when I sit back and think about my life, I am satisfied that I can do what I want with my life outside of work and get involved in things that interest me without it burning me out or me resenting my own passions.

There's absolutely no shame in doing the same for yourself.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on work life balance. For some people, it's worth it to take a less appealing job to make more money to have more financial stability and better experiences outside of work. For others, it's more worth it to enjoy work at the possible expense of other life experiences. To be honest, it probably takes a few years of actually having a job and living an independent life to figure this out for oneself. Furthermore, it could change throughout life depending on circumstances (i.e. getting married, having children).

But also these things aren't necessarily always mutually exclusive; there def are some cases where pursuing what you love does actually lead to very good money. If you enjoy the work your doing, chances are you'll be more effective/better than average at that thing because it's not a burden and you enjoy learning more about it.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Update: Semester is almost over; 2 finals left.

I mentioned this in another thread but I did get some funding for doing research actually on some election related stuff which is p cool.

I’m also currently looking at internships for this summer. From what I’ve heard though, it’s generally p hard to get internships as a college Freshman and generally it doesn’t matter if you get an internship this summer - worst case I’ll make some money off of tutoring.

Def strongly leaning towards (applied) math major. Rlly like the teachers I’ve met so far and generally a degree that allows you to persue a wide range of careers.

Two of the biggest things I want to work on next semester are joining more campus clubs and start building a relationship with my schools career office.

Over winter break, I want to set up a Roth IRA and a Fidelity Account. Since money compounds, saving one or two grand now can be very powerful in the future. Also allows me to have a rainy day backup especially if the job market is rough when I leave college. And while I did get good aid, I know I will still have some student loans, so paying those off (especially any high interest ones) as soon as possible is going to be important to me.

[vitoNova]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

Ye, but I still have 3 summers. From what I've heard in modern times it's basically impossible for Freshman to get good internships unless you are very well connected and/or a genuine genius. This is because internships are often attempt by companies to get those folks to work for them after college, so upperclassmen are far more desireable.

If I don't get an internship this summer, I will do tutoring to make some money as well as work on research project, which will still contribute to my resume

[Del Tachi]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

Ye, but I still have 3 summers. From what I've heard in modern times it's basically impossible for Freshman to get good internships unless you are very well connected and/or a genuine genius. This is because internships are often attempt by companies to get those folks to work for them after college, so upperclassmen are far more desireable.

If I don't get an internship this summer, I will do tutoring to make some money as well as work on research project, which will still contribute to my resume

Yes, the best time for an internship is the summer between junior/senior years.  Target a "setup" internship or part-time job the summer after your sophomore year, and spend the summer after freshman year doing something fun yet relevant (i.e., volunteering, tutoring, summer school, research project, etc.)

For example, I did worked on a research project after my freshman year; worked for a political campaign after sophomore year; and then had an internship on Capitol Hill between my junior/senior year.  I didn't get a job offer so took the off-ramp as an opportunity to go to grad school! 

[Blue3]

Valuable internships are more available in some areas than others.

I highly recommend a year of AmeriCorps after college - lots of practical experience. For policy/polisci majors, there's basically an AmeriCorps program in each policy area - healthcare, education, the environment, housing, etc. Just pick one that's bigger and more established, and talk to alumni or current workers in it. Not AmeriCorps in general, but the particular organization and location. Bigger ones are City Year, NCCC, etc.

[vitoNova]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

Ye, but I still have 3 summers. From what I've heard in modern times it's basically impossible for Freshman to get good internships unless you are very well connected and/or a genuine genius. This is because internships are often attempt by companies to get those folks to work for them after college, so upperclassmen are far more desireable.

If I don't get an internship this summer, I will do tutoring to make some money as well as work on research project, which will still contribute to my resume

Don't know how it's like in the private sector, since my internship was in the federal guvmint (If I recall, you have to be at least a junior to be considered for a paid STEP, or whatever they're called now)

The only downside about interning with the federal government is that there is no such thing as a "fast-track" to a job upon graduation, so it literally takes MONTHS after graduation to find out if you snagged a full-time position--because you had to compete with every single Tom, Dick, and Harry in the general public for an entry-level GS-9 even at an agency where you worked at for 9-12 months in college.

I spent many sleepless nights applying for grad school or gay stuff like the FBI (things I really didn't want to do), because of that state of uncertainty.  But yes, the moment I received that tentative offer, I got down on my knees and thanked Mormon Space Jeebus.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

Ye, but I still have 3 summers. From what I've heard in modern times it's basically impossible for Freshman to get good internships unless you are very well connected and/or a genuine genius. This is because internships are often attempt by companies to get those folks to work for them after college, so upperclassmen are far more desireable.

If I don't get an internship this summer, I will do tutoring to make some money as well as work on research project, which will still contribute to my resume

Don't know how it's like in the private sector, since my internship was in the federal guvmint (If I recall, you have to be at least a junior to be considered for a paid STEP, or whatever they're called now)

The only downside about interning with the federal government is that there is no such thing as a "fast-track" to a job upon graduation, so it literally takes MONTHS after graduation to find out if you snagged a full-time position--because you had to compete with every single Tom, Dick, and Harry in the general public for an entry-level GS-9 even at an agency where you worked at for 9-12 months in college.

I spent many sleepless nights applying for grad school or gay stuff like the FBI (things I really didn't want to do), because of that state of uncertainty.  But yes, the moment I received that tentative offer, I got down on my knees and thanked Mormon Space Jeebus.

Ik my parents have mentioned I consider working in the federal government for something like CIA or FBI. They argue that Government jobs generally provide a better sense of long-run stability than the private sector, and you're also less likely to encounter some of the nastier forms of office politics. However, the downside is often these jobs don't pay as much as private sector jobs of simillar skill demands. From your experience would you say this is true?

[vitoNova]

Provided you're high-speed, most college internships will almost assuredly snag you a job after you graduate.   I don't know where I'd be today without my internship during my undergrad years.

Ye, but I still have 3 summers. From what I've heard in modern times it's basically impossible for Freshman to get good internships unless you are very well connected and/or a genuine genius. This is because internships are often attempt by companies to get those folks to work for them after college, so upperclassmen are far more desireable.

If I don't get an internship this summer, I will do tutoring to make some money as well as work on research project, which will still contribute to my resume

Don't know how it's like in the private sector, since my internship was in the federal guvmint (If I recall, you have to be at least a junior to be considered for a paid STEP, or whatever they're called now)

The only downside about interning with the federal government is that there is no such thing as a "fast-track" to a job upon graduation, so it literally takes MONTHS after graduation to find out if you snagged a full-time position--because you had to compete with every single Tom, Dick, and Harry in the general public for an entry-level GS-9 even at an agency where you worked at for 9-12 months in college.

I spent many sleepless nights applying for grad school or gay stuff like the FBI (things I really didn't want to do), because of that state of uncertainty.  But yes, the moment I received that tentative offer, I got down on my knees and thanked Mormon Space Jeebus.

Ik my parents have mentioned I consider working in the federal government for something like CIA or FBI. They argue that Government jobs generally provide a better sense of long-run stability than the private sector, and you're also less likely to encounter some of the nastier forms of office politics. However, the downside is often these jobs don't pay as much as private sector jobs of simillar skill demands. From your experience would you say this is true?

I've never had debt and I've always been thrifty with money, and I've always been on the government payroll since I was 18, so I can't really fathom a private sector job with 6 figures with just a BA.  The concept is alien to me. 

I actually applied to the CIA the summer I graduated college through their website...and never heard back.  I got the distinct impression my application went out to the Void.  lol.

[ProgressiveModerate]

I'd be curious if anyone on here is or has experience with Quants?

Given math tends to be my strong point, at face value this seems like an interesting career path since from my understanding, it's basically using high level math to optimize the financial market.

I know it's a career that is often very, very well compensated, however, actually becoming a Quant is extremely difficult, and even once you are a Quant, it sounds like there isn't always great career stability. Furthermore, being a Quant can be quite taxing with places like Citadel and Jane St often having a very competitive workplace culture. Still, if being a Quant doesn't work out, it's usually easy to transfer to adjacent fields like CompSci, Data Science, and Accounting.

Thoughts on Quants?