Muslim-majority city council bans LGBTQ+ pride flags on public property

[Torie]

Fear and loathing of LGBTQ is a most powerful force. What was once decried as imposing Sharia law is now an estimable defense of family values.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/16/opinion/conservatives-muslims-lgbtq.html

[Mr. Illini]

It’s true that Muslim fundamentalists are just as bad or worse than other fundamentalists on LGBT issues, but it’s not the gotcha that some seem to think it is.

American progressives reserve more ire for Christian fundamentalists because they are, overwhelmingly, the largest fundamentalist movement in this country. They’ve elected politicians, have massive lobbying efforts with huge amounts of money behind them, and have largely controlled or split control of one of two major parties in this country for about 50 years.

Muslim fundamentalists do not have that kind of influence in this country. They have that kind of control in a few towns in Michigan, and I’d recommend LGBT people steer clear of those towns.

F••• that man, we live where we want to live

Feel free. Unless it is the town I am from, I wouldn’t choose to move to an area with people and a government that are openly hostile to me.

[PSOL]

It’s true that Muslim fundamentalists are just as bad or worse than other fundamentalists on LGBT issues, but it’s not the gotcha that some seem to think it is.

American progressives reserve more ire for Christian fundamentalists because they are, overwhelmingly, the largest fundamentalist movement in this country. They’ve elected politicians, have massive lobbying efforts with huge amounts of money behind them, and have largely controlled or split control of one of two major parties in this country for about 50 years.

Muslim fundamentalists do not have that kind of influence in this country. They have that kind of control in a few towns in Michigan, and I’d recommend LGBT people steer clear of those towns.

F••• that man, we live where we want to live

Feel free. Unless it is the town I am from, I wouldn’t choose to move to an area with people and a government that are openly hostile to me.

I’m sorry, but running back to the gay ghettos is not a dignified course of action for us.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

[T'Chenka]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

[jojoju1998]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.


We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.


I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.


We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.


I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

Let me put it like this: I'd prefer a system that is 80-90% French than 10% Saudi.

[jojoju1998]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.


We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.


I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

Let me put it like this: I'd prefer a system that is 80-90% French than 10% Saudi.

I would rather have a system that is 100 percent American, multiculturalism. Multi religion.

What you're believing, or proposing is just feeding the fire into the Fundamentalists, because they believe that society is out to get them. That's why you see in France, very poor integration of Migrants as a whole. And you know what happens, Terrorism happens. ISIS, the Taliban feeds on this.



Muslims are not all fundamentalists, and we should not treat all Muslim Americans as if they are fundamentalists.


This specific case however in Michigan is a very small slice, a very small example of a less integrated populace ( more specifically immigrants from war torn countries such as Yemen ).

Most American Muslims however are more educated, than their peers in France.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.


We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.


I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

Let me put it like this: I'd prefer a system that is 80-90% French than 10% Saudi.

I would rather have a system that is 100 percent American, multiculturalism. Multi religion.

What you're believing, or proposing is just feeding the fire into the Fundamentalists, because they believe that society is out to get them. That's why you see in France, very poor integration of Migrants as a whole. And you know what happens, Terrorism happens. ISIS, the Taliban feeds on this.



Muslims are not all fundamentalists, and we should not treat all Muslim Americans as if they are fundamentalists.


This specific case however in Michigan is a very small slice, a very small example of a less integrated populace ( more specifically immigrants from war torn countries such as Yemen ).

Most American Muslims however are more educated, than their peers in France.

Did I say that 'all Muslims are fundamentalists'? I absolutely didn't. I actually said quite the opposite, in that most Muslims who are of a second and/or younger generation that I have personally met were actually quite tolerant, accepting people and like myself just wanted to live their lives with respect for other people, cultures, and differences.

No pun intended, but fundamentalism is fundamentally incompatible with a society being both 1.) Tolerant and 2.) Diverse imo.

[T'Chenka]

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.

Solution : we teach our kids that it's okay to be LGBTQ without trying to indoctrinate them into thinking they are gay (basically, end all Stop Woke types of legislation in all 50 states). Then the already-weak bigot vote gets weaker than it already is. We also stop catering to the bigots. Their objectively anti-American values should not be considered an important factor in what decisions society and government makes, unless they have over 50% of the vote.

We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.

I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

Hopefully the decisions made do not result in a France scenario, but if you fail and don't end up being pefectly balanced in the middle, being a country that's closer to France than Saudi Arabia is WAY way better than being a country that's closer to Saudi Arabia than France.

[jojoju1998]

Can we just leave each other alone ??

Let me be crystal clear: a lot of the more extreme social conservatives in many countries, including Canada and USA, will never, EVER allow that to happen. This has been true for as long as these countries have existed. You saying this is literally just a waste of time.

For many far right social conservatives, people who are "different" can only be tolerated when they "know their place" and don't "cross the line". Each person of course having a different definition of what "their place" is and where "the line" that can't be crossed is. For some, black people living on the continent and not remaining in Africa is crossing the line and not knowing their place. For others, LGBTQ people not pretending to be hetereosexual in public in crossing the line and not knowing their place.

Let me be clear: There should be zero respect for these religious chauvinists. Thankfully, most young Muslim people I know do not agree with their parents and elders on these issues.

Religious fundamentalism must be firmly smacked down wherever it comes from when it tries to influence the public square.

Well you guys have to figure out a equitable solution then because a lot of migrants are that; and I don't want to go the inverse like in France.


We need a balance between religious pluralism/vibrancy, and a lessening of Fundamentalist beliefs.


I don't want to end up like the Saudis. I also don't want to end up like France.

Let me put it like this: I'd prefer a system that is 80-90% French than 10% Saudi.

I would rather have a system that is 100 percent American, multiculturalism. Multi religion.

What you're believing, or proposing is just feeding the fire into the Fundamentalists, because they believe that society is out to get them. That's why you see in France, very poor integration of Migrants as a whole. And you know what happens, Terrorism happens. ISIS, the Taliban feeds on this.



Muslims are not all fundamentalists, and we should not treat all Muslim Americans as if they are fundamentalists.


This specific case however in Michigan is a very small slice, a very small example of a less integrated populace ( more specifically immigrants from war torn countries such as Yemen ).

Most American Muslims however are more educated, than their peers in France.

Did I say that 'all Muslims are fundamentalists'? I absolutely didn't. I actually said quite the opposite, in that most Muslims who are of a second and/or younger generation that I have personally met were actually quite tolerant, accepting people and like myself just wanted to live their lives with respect for other people, cultures, and differences.

No pun intended, but fundamentalism is fundamentally incompatible with a society being both 1.) Tolerant and 2.) Diverse imo.

Not you.

Others here...... Won't name names.

[Pres Mike]

I'm shocked how bigoted and islamophobic people here are. I had no idea.

[HisGrace]

These people need Christ.

(As promoted by liberal churches of course, not the Catholic or conservative evangelical version of Christ.)

These people might be some of the few who might be improved by attending BRTD's prospective emo church which I assume would be LGBT friendly.

[kelestian]

Honestly, I don't understand why it's so controversial. It's just a small city with democratically-elect local social conservative government, which just decided not to wear LGBT flags in public institutions (it didn't prohibit LGBT flags on private property). If their voters want so, let it be, we have LGBT flags flying near almost every institution, including the White House.