What's the "real result" according to Trump?

[Sir Mohamed]

Trump and his enablers continue to insist the 2020 election was rigged without any proof or evidence. However, according to Trump, what's the "real outcome" of the 2020 election? Which states does he claim to have won and what's the NPV like?

It's interesting that even if he got back all the flipped states from 2016 by a few thousand votes, he'd still trail Biden in NPV by nearly 7 million. Since he already claimed the 2016 NPV was manipulated, I'm certain Trump also believes he won the most votes in 2020.

[Stranger in a strange land]

In his mind, he probably believes he won both elections by something like 80-20

[Del Tachi]

Objections were sustained to the electoral college results from AZ and PA which, if successful, would have lowered Biden's electoral count to 275.  If any of the other attempted objections had been sustained (i.e., GA, NV, MI or WI) then Biden could have hypothetically been pushed below the 270 mark and Trump elected president by the House.     

[Pres Mike]

The "real result" has changed so many times according to Trump. It changed depending on the many dozens of failed lawsuits.

[Ragnaroni]

His "real" result probably looks more like 1988 (1984 less so) than 2016, toss in MN and toss out VT and IL. Probably thinks he got near the same PV as Bush 41.

[President Johnson]

✓ PRESIDENT DONALD JOHN TRUMP (R-FL)/Vice President (disgraced) Mike P.[name redacted] (R-IN): 538 EV. (99%)
Sleepy Joe Biden (Democrat Party-DE)/Nasty Kamala H. (Democrat Party-CA): 0 EV. (1%)

[Xing]

That every vote against him was illegitimate and shouldn't have been counted.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

In his mind, he probably believes he won both elections by something like 80-20

In his mind, he knows he is speaking bs actually.

[Smoochy]

If Trump, looking at the performances of past incumbent presidents who were victorious, felt confident he had won, he might point out the following stats:

Nixon increased his 1972 vote total from 1968 by 15.4 Mil votes. As a percentage, that's a 48.4% increase. Increased his vote in about 98.2% of all US counties. In comparison, the Dem vote lost support in '72, getting 2 Mil less votes, a 6.7% decrease from '68. 3rd party vote was high in '68, particularly in the South, and Nixon absorbed a lot of those votes in '72. Plus the 26th Amendment passed in 1971, lower the voting age to 18 from 21, that also brought new voters into the fold.

In 1984, Reagan gained 10.5 Mil votes from 1980, an increase of 24%. Reagan increased his vote in 88.8% of counties. The Dem vote had a small gain from 1980, going up by only 2.1 Mil votes, an increase of 5.9%. 1980 was high 3rd party turnout, and seemed that in '84 they mostly settled on Reagan.

In 1996, Clinton gained 2.5 Mil votes from 1992, an increase of 5.5%. Also, he gained votes in roughly 61.5% of counties. The GOP vote was stagnant from 1992, only increasing by 94K votes, or 0.25%. The high 3rd party vote in '92 that went D or R in '96 seemed to be mostly evenly split. Turnout was very low, but since both parties technically gained votes compared to '92 performances, the drop off came mostly from the Perot voters that sat it out in '96. 8 Mil vote drop off is quite enormous.

In 2004, Bush gained 11.4 Mil votes from 2000, an increase of 22.9%. Gaining votes in 97% of counties (in a number of aspects it is very similar to the performances of Nixon/Reagan). However, Bush's performance was slightly muted due to the Dem vote gain of 9 Mil, an increase of 15.7%, and gaining votes in 73.8% of counties. 3rd party vote was somewhat high in 2000, nearly 4 Mil, and dropped off to 1.2 Mil in '04, but appears to not have any clear benefactor. Both parties skyrocketed by double-digits, which hadn't happened since 1952.

In 2012, Obama lost votes from 2008. A drop of 3.5 Mil, a decrease of 5.1%. He only gained votes in 13.3% of counties, whereas Romney increased the R vote totals by nearly 1 Mil., or an increase of 1.7%. Since there was an overall vote drop off from '08, most of that came from Obama's loss in votes.

Going into 2020, it would seem that for Trump to win, he would need to post large increases in vote. So here are those stats:

Trump in 2020 gained over 11.2 Mil votes from 2016 (similar number as Bush '04). This was also an increase of 17.8%. Trump also increased his vote totals in 98.6% of counties (very similar to Nixon's % of counties in '72, in fact higher). On the flip side, the Dem vote had a gain of 16.4 Mil votes, an increase of 23.4%. Dem vote going up in 91.2% of counties.

So, collectively, the R and D vote increased by 20.7%, very similar to 2004, which was an increase of 19.3%. With most elections, when one party has a very large gain in votes from the previous election, it usually comes at the expense of the other party. In 2020, both parties increased their vote totals by double-digits, just as did 2004, and prior to that 1952. So when looking at one side, anyone would believe they won if they posted similar gains in vote. Normally when someone is unpopular, they lose votes. So Trump gaining 11+ Mil votes does not seem to mean he lost popularity. Others might also look at it as he gained popularity. Just looking at numbers, and compared to previous cycles, Trump probably thinks he won in a landslide similar to Nixon or Reagan, or Bush '88.

[Smoochy]

What is also interesting is that the US population from 2016-2020 grew by 8 Mil residents. However voter registrations went up by nearly 18 Mil. So it is very weird that both parties increased their total votes during this time frame by more than the raw total population gain, and the majority of the raw voter registration gain. As a percentage the population gain was only 2.5%, the lowest growth rate of any 4 year span between pres. elections going back to the 40's (not sure about prior years). So a 15.6% increase in total votes (one of the highest ever increases) during the lowest population growth period, doesn't seem to fit the pattern from any previous cycle going back 70 years. Must have been some massive enthusiasm from pre-existing registered voters for both parties, during a massive global pandemic where millions of people were afraid to leave their homes.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

✓ PRESIDENT DONALD JOHN TRUMP (R-FL)/Vice President (disgraced) Mike P.[name redacted] (R-IN): 538 EV. (99%)
Sleepy Joe Biden (Democrat Party-DE)/Nasty Kamala H. (Democrat Party-CA): 0 EV. (1%)

Assuming Trump made this map himself, I like "Nasty Kamala H." JUST to be sure that we don't confuse her with "Nasty Kamala S." 😂

[The Mikado]

One of Sidney Powell's crazy allegations was that voting machines counted votes for Biden at 1.25x and votes for Trump at .75x. So Powell's ridiculous idea would produce the following (leaving all other votes unchanged):

Total vote: 166,828,150

Trump: 98,720,374 59.17%
Biden: 65,029,092 38.98%
Other: 3,078,684 1.85%

Purely for fun I made up a map for this. NY goes Trump by 1% and is the closest state:



Again, this is Sidney Powell's contention, not Trump's, but, well...

[Хahar 🤔]

One of Sidney Powell's crazy allegations was that voting machines counted votes for Biden at 1.25x and votes for Trump at .75x. So Powell's ridiculous idea would produce the following (leaving all other votes unchanged):

Total vote: 166,828,150

Trump: 98,720,374 59.17%
Biden: 65,029,092 38.98%
Other: 3,078,684 1.85%

Purely for fun I made up a map for this. NY goes Trump by 1% and is the closest state:



Again, this is Sidney Powell's contention, not Trump's, but, well...

With shades:

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I recall NYC Millennial Minority posting some site with the "real results" on AAD, but that was just something some right-wing weirdo threw together and wasn't from Trump directly...it was actually less ridiculous than the Sidney Powell map posted above, although it also makes the fairly absurd claim that the Democrats actually bothered to manufacture fraudulent votes in Wyoming and many other such states. Basically it was Trump winning every state that Biden won by less than double digits.

[Mechavada]

What is also interesting is that the US population from 2016-2020 grew by 8 Mil residents. However voter registrations went up by nearly 18 Mil. So it is very weird that both parties increased their total votes during this time frame by more than the raw total population gain, and the majority of the raw voter registration gain. As a percentage the population gain was only 2.5%, the lowest growth rate of any 4 year span between pres. elections going back to the 40's (not sure about prior years). So a 15.6% increase in total votes (one of the highest ever increases) during the lowest population growth period, doesn't seem to fit the pattern from any previous cycle going back 70 years. Must have been some massive enthusiasm from pre-existing registered voters for both parties, during a massive global pandemic where millions of people were afraid to leave their homes.

First off welcome to the forum.  I think you'll be a very good fit here.

Second, speaking as someone from Edmond, Oklahoma it does kind of shock me how long the lines were in 2020.  Now I'm not saying folks here don't care about elections, but usually when there is a presidential election around these parts I notice there are like churches and other places that are polling places will have parking lots that are like 60%-85% full.  There were hardly ever any lines going outside.  During 2020 however?  There were folks who were LINED UP OUTSIDE the polling places and those lines were so long they stretched all the way outside the Judd Theater at Oklahoma Christian University and stretched all the way to the f***ing street on the east side of the university.  There must have been 800 people in that line.

Why do I tell this story?  Because this story of insane voter turnout, which suddenly seemed to die when Trump started bitching about how he lost his election and how unfair it is because he's a petty bastard-sorry I'll get back on point.  The turnout was very real.  And from what I could tell, at least in Oklahoma, Joe Biden got like maybe five more votes than Hillary (if that).  It seems like for every additional Democrat that came out 0.999999999999999999 additional Republicans came out to vote as well.  Maybe this is a different story in other states but I saw about 500 more people voting (again at least) than I usually saw voting.  These were things that my eyes saw, not something a polling firm or news agency reported.

Let me stress it: these were real fucking people.  They took time out of their long ass day in 2020 to show up and to cast their ballots.  Many of these folks who voted many of them probably haven't voted in years.  They probably usually just grilled hamburgers and hotdogs on election night, watched movies, smoked weed, played with their kids, take the wife out for a date, etc. etc. etc. .  These were folks who took extra effort that year to come out and vote for whichever candidate they preferred.

And Donald Trump looks at these voters and he says their efforts didn't matter.  Whoever the hell they voted for, Biden or even him, the election was predetermined. . . . . like a play.  A significant number of these people probably waited hours to vote and considering the election took place in early November some of them probably did it in less than ideal weather conditions again FOR HOURS when they normally wouldn't bother showing up to vote.  Trump and election denying Republicans basically make a mockery of these folks, they insult them with these unproven bullshit theories.  Because that's what Republicans do: they lose elections and then they cry like little children.

And yeah I realize this is an ANECDOTAL STORY, but so are MAGA stories about abusive poll workers and thrown out ballots.  But don't worry after I finish with this post I'll definitely post a map of what I think. . . . . . Trump thinks he got.

[Mechavada]

Gents and. . . . . . Ladies?

Here it is in all of it's glory!  The REAL election results the corrupt Rockefeller Buildaburger Trilateral George Soros Moscow Muslim Transgender Tyrannical Elites do not want you to see!  The REAL 2020 Election Results!

Donald Trump/Some Loser Make America Great Again 468 Electoral Votes and 100 Millions Something Votes Popular Vote idfk maybe 63%?
Commie Ass Cheater THE DARK BRANDON Joe Biden and his dark California mistress 70 Electoral Votes (they prolly didn't even get those LMFAO) and 25% of the vote.  Everyone else voted third party.

American rebels against the CALIFORNIA CABAL that is the modern Democratic Party and its flagrant Covid-19 tyranny.  Republicans make massive gains after Trump's economic performance and his stand against the Big Tech Tyrants of the Democratic Party.  America as a whole, EVEN OREGON AND WASHINGTON, rise up against the San Francisco elites that have taken over the DNC and their communist loser supporters.  Maryland votes Democratic because that state is populated by the DNC.  Vermont votes Democratic because they are a bunch of CNN Brain addled losers who were last great in the freaking 1870s so they resent Trump's success!

Someday the True King will reclaim his crown!

[Arizona Iced Tea]

https://twitter.com/Manga4Congress/status/1327731838920630272

[Smoochy]

That is an interesting antedote. I've seen early voting with long lines, but nothing crazy looking. Maybe like 10-15 minute wait. Most of the time I go in early to beat the rush. If one has the flexibility that's ideal in my opinion.

As far as these turn out numbers goes, it's all fascinating stuff. Like in MI for example. The population numbers according to official census reports has been flat for decades, lagging way behind the country at large. 2000-2010 had a very slight loss in population, then 2010-2020 had a slight gain. So 2020 essentially had the same population as it did in 2000. Only a gain of about 140K. But when it comes to voting in pres. elections, the total votes cast in the 2000-2020 time frame there's a gain of 1.3 million. Both parties increasing their totals by 100s of thousands. In the Gov elections in MI, same deal. 2018 had over 1 million more votes than in 2010, and that is only an 8 year span. That year (2018) had crazy turn out numbers all over the place.

Another one I noticed is Clark County NV (Las Vegas). The population increased by 64% from 2000 to 2020. But the total pres. votes increased by 154%. Also Liberty County GA, which only grew by 6% (2000-2020), but total votes grew 114%. Apache County AZ, that one lost population, I think a 5% loss, but the vote there grew by 81%. Many of other examples, but those are some of the ones I managed to recall.

I'm just wondering why all the enthusiasm, and why is it affecting both parties, almost equally in many places. I understand many states have revised voting registration procedures and such. Making it easier to register and/or vote in most circumstances. But a person still has to physically get up and drive or walk to their polling place (or opt to vote by mail), so it does require a certain amount of motivation. Just pondering the motivation-aspect, like a psychoanalyst study of sorts. It does seem like more civic engagement is taking place here and there.

[Sumner 1868]

In his mind, he probably believes he won both elections by something like 80-20

In his mind, he knows he is speaking bs actually.

This is the correct answer. And deep down the sore loser Q/MAGA cult knows it as well. But since any tantrum they threw had been appeased since the Tea Party days, they figured the same would apply with the election if they screamed enough. When it wasn't they doubled-down on lies.

[Ricardian1485]

PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL
January 6 scenario

7 states have transmitted dual slates of electors to the President of the Senate.

The 12th Amendment merely provides that “the President of the Senate shall, in the
presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes
shall then be counted.” There is very solid legal authority, and historical precedent, for the
view that the President of the Senate does the counting, including the resolution of
disputed electoral votes (as Adams and Jefferson did while Vice President, regarding their
own election as President), and all the Members of Congress can do is watch.

[...]

So here’s the scenario we propose:

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if
Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with
Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the Electoral
Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).

2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors,
and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This
would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.

3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States,
there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That
means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th
Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been
advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the
electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for
Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior
position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th
Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the
matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the
representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently
control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote.
President Trump is re-elected there as well.

5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon
getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their
separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on
debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining
the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully
argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules
(which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the
state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate
of electors, if they had not already done so.

6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission
– either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side
challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President
of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would
press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable
political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The
fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the
ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

Result if Mike Pence had in Trump's words done "what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution"

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Saw this today...

https://twitter.com/Chicago1Ray/status/1674513750467002370?s=20

[The Mikado]

Saw this today...

https://twitter.com/Chicago1Ray/status/1674513750467002370?s=20

Literally just the 2016 map. Lazy. At least give NV to Trump.

[bayareabay]

Trump and his enablers continue to insist the 2020 election was rigged without any proof or evidence. However, according to Trump, what's the "real outcome" of the 2020 election? Which states does he claim to have won and what's the NPV like?

It's interesting that even if he got back all the flipped states from 2016 by a few thousand votes, he'd still trail Biden in NPV by nearly 7 million. Since he already claimed the 2016 NPV was manipulated, I'm certain Trump also believes he won the most votes in 2020.

Maybe he thinks he won California (official result show he lost CA by over 5 million votes). California has enough electoral votes that it would have put him over 270.

[Epaminondas]

Trump doesn't care, he understood a long time ago that slipperiness is a quality in politics. By staying vague, he placates both the loonies who believe he won by an FDR landslide without scaring off the tepid GOPers who believe the differences were marginal.

Had never read the memos until now. Shouldn't that get him disbarred for sedition?

In the words of Chuck: "Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree is like a chimp with a machine gun"

[Senator Incitatus]

Pretty sure I've seen him claim he won Virginia.