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Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2023, 12:34:35 PM »


You know who.
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afleitch
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« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2023, 01:36:45 PM »

There were Census questions asked of this in the UK.

1% of 16-24 year olds identified as trans

Amongst my age group it's 0.7%. In my parents age group, 0.3%

I've been out of the closet for 22 years.

4.5% of 16-24 men identified as LGB. In my age group 3.5%. In my parents age group 1%

Similar stats for women.

If the 'youngs' are too trans because of some nebulous 'contagion' or because 'it's cool' or 'a phase' what's the 'correct' figure? If the increase in trans ID is in line with that of LGB identification, which it is, then what's our 'correct' figure?

Who's going to start telling gay men pushing 40, 'oh the numbers are a bit high'.
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soundchaser
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« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2023, 01:38:15 PM »

because women enjoy certain benefits men do not have

No such benefit exists.
Come on, man. You can acknowledge that women have *some* benefits in society (chief among them, the ability to be open with their emotions) without going whole hog Men's Rights Activist.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #103 on: May 31, 2023, 02:25:00 PM »

because women enjoy certain benefits men do not have

No such benefit exists.

I think it's fairly well established that women enjoy certain benefits in society, whereas men enjoy others. I'm not implying any sort of inbalance or unfairness, just differences.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #104 on: May 31, 2023, 02:27:18 PM »

The increase in ftm identification is very curious to me. Would most of these people have just been tomboys 20 years ago? Is the massive increase because these young people see the advantages men have in the world due to patriarchy and/or think being a man would be less traumatic or "safer"?

That's not how any of this works...

Really? You're sure? You're not known for always being right about this stuff...

I am one of the few people on this website who doesn't have brain worms about transgender rights.

To suggest that people transition from female to male as a means of escaping the patriarchy is extremely stupid for several reasons, least of all that trans men are not seen as being "real men" by a significant portion of society, and would broadly speaking, not be awarded the same benefits that cisgender men enjoy.

But even if this gap did not exist, and cis men and trans men were treated identically by society, it would still be extremely ridiculous to suggest that people are transitioning from female to male for the purpose of increasing their relative privilege. That is not how dysphoria works and is not how gender identity works.

It's the same stupid logic that transphobes use when arguing that trans athletes transition from male to female for the sole purpose of doing better in sports. That's just an extremely stupid argument to make and is not worth treating seriously.
Especially since there are a LOT more trans women than trans men.

Of course, this is just a theory I have. But I wonder if there are more trans men than trans women because women enjoy certain benefits men do not have. Like, if you are a guy your whole value is based on what you can provide finacially. How many men go decades without any love or affection?
That's not actually true, it was in the past but now the numbers are roughly equal. I think more people just now know that trans men are a thing and that it's an option.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2019.0070
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« Reply #105 on: May 31, 2023, 02:49:06 PM »

Ferguson is basically behaving like a strawman created by MRAs in this thread, the vast majority of even the most ardent feminists would not agree with his statement.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #106 on: May 31, 2023, 02:58:21 PM »

But I think there is an agenda to make children trans, who aren't trans.

You are incorrect about this. Do not believe lies from the likes of Matt Walsh, Ron DeSantis, Chiya Raichik, and the like.

Why should we believe that they're lies?

I know this will be lost on you, but you’re making the assertion that certain groups are forcibly transing kids gender. You should be the one providing credible evidence that it’s true

If what you're saying is true, wouldn't you be able to back it up?  Wouldn't you be able to give me a knowable answer as to why more people are declaring as "trans" now than ever before?  You tell me why the incidence of Gender Dysphoria is higher than it has ever been?

I mean the argument that seems to come up is that people are less discriminated against and more free to come out now. That doesn't square with accusations of so-called "trans genocide", but that's my understanding of it.
More awareness leads to more negative reactions. Yes it's easier in a lot of places now for trans people to come out and transition but with that comes a big pushback from a big portion of society (with a lot of institutional power) against that newfound freedom. And they want to limit it any way they can.
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« Reply #107 on: May 31, 2023, 03:11:42 PM »

Ferguson is basically behaving like a strawman created by MRAs in this thread, the vast majority of even the most ardent feminists would not agree with his statement.

He's ironically behaving similarly to some of the old-school misandrist radical feminists who tend to hate transgender people. Many of the most extreme of them believe that women are oppressed in pretty much every single aspect of human society.
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Pres Mike
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« Reply #108 on: May 31, 2023, 03:16:01 PM »

because women enjoy certain benefits men do not have

No such benefit exists.
Its well known that men struggle with loneliness far more than women do
https://www.rootsofloneliness.com/male-loneliness#:~:text=Bottom%20Line%3A%20Struggling%20with%20feelings,even%20though%20it's%20rarely%20discussed.
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ingemann
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« Reply #109 on: May 31, 2023, 04:24:41 PM »

Very few trans teens have easy or fun lives, even if their parents support them. The incentives just don't align for someone to fake being trans to be "cool" or whatever.

Anorexia is not a fun disorder, but the number of people suffering from the disorder increased with the increased focus on it. These things should not be seen as conscious decisions, but we were all in our teenage years convinced something were wrong with us, I’m going to guess half the people here between 25-35 year old self diagnosed with Asperger in their teenager years and really believed in it.

So yes the increase in transgender teens could be a case of increased acceptance, but it could just as well be a “fashion”.

Do you have a citation for that or is it based on your own "research"? It's hard to believe that more people started starving themselves just because anorexia was discussed more.

What are you talking about, I come with no conclusion what the cause of the increase in transgender young people are, I just lay out the two different scenarios out.
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ingemann
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« Reply #110 on: May 31, 2023, 05:05:37 PM »

There were Census questions asked of this in the UK.

1% of 16-24 year olds identified as trans

Amongst my age group it's 0.7%. In my parents age group, 0.3%

I've been out of the closet for 22 years.

4.5% of 16-24 men identified as LGB. In my age group 3.5%. In my parents age group 1%

Similar stats for women.

If the 'youngs' are too trans because of some nebulous 'contagion' or because 'it's cool' or 'a phase' what's the 'correct' figure? If the increase in trans ID is in line with that of LGB identification, which it is, then what's our 'correct' figure?

Who's going to start telling gay men pushing 40, 'oh the numbers are a bit high'.

Do this distinct between trans gender and non-binary.

In Denmark 0,54% identifies as non-binary, while 0,1% identifies as transgender. The number of trans women and men are equal, while more people born female (66%) than born male (33%) identifies as non-binary.

Of the general population 1,1% identifies as homosexual (around 75% gays to 25% lesbian), 2,2% identifies as bisexual (around 40% male and 60% female), 0,2% identifies as asexual with a slight overrepresentation of women. 4,8% has a other or unclear sexual identity (over representation of women). 92% of the population identifies as heterosexual (slight overrepresentation of men).

Interesting fact people with a Muslim background are significant more likely than people with a non-Muslim background to identify as LGBTQ+ (in all categories). This came as a surprise when I read it first time. In case of transgender/non-binary 1,8% of people of Muslims background identifies as such, while 0,51% of people of non-Muslim background.

Other interesting fact, homosexuals are massive overrepresented in the capital region, while transgender, non-binary and bisexual are spread out over the country, in fact the regions with the two biggest cities (Copenhagen and Aarhus) is the two region where transgender and non-binary are underrepresented. I find it interesting that people in less urban areas are more likely to have non-cis identity, this in my opinion is a argument against the fashion argument.

Source: Projekt Sexus 2019
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2023, 06:06:31 PM »
« Edited: May 31, 2023, 07:44:11 PM by Meclazine »

Target Way Off Target

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cs7KG6zAw0m/

NYSE:TGT shares down 17% over last fortnight.

NYSE:BUD shares down 17% over the last month.

Each company has been dropping smoothly at around USD $1Bn per day over the mentioned time periods.

That equates to a monthly drop in market capitalisation of over USD $40Bn for both companies.

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omegascarlet
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« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2023, 08:58:28 PM »

The increase in ftm identification is very curious to me. Would most of these people have just been tomboys 20 years ago? Is the massive increase because these young people see the advantages men have in the world due to patriarchy and/or think being a man would be less traumatic or "safer"?

That's not how any of this works...

Really? You're sure? You're not known for always being right about this stuff...

I am one of the few people on this website who doesn't have brain worms about transgender rights.

To suggest that people transition from female to male as a means of escaping the patriarchy is extremely stupid for several reasons, least of all that trans men are not seen as being "real men" by a significant portion of society, and would broadly speaking, not be awarded the same benefits that cisgender men enjoy.

But even if this gap did not exist, and cis men and trans men were treated identically by society, it would still be extremely ridiculous to suggest that people are transitioning from female to male for the purpose of increasing their relative privilege. That is not how dysphoria works and is not how gender identity works.

It's the same stupid logic that transphobes use when arguing that trans athletes transition from male to female for the sole purpose of doing better in sports. That's just an extremely stupid argument to make and is not worth treating seriously.
Especially since there are a LOT more trans women than trans men.

Of course, this is just a theory I have. But I wonder if there are more trans men than trans women because women enjoy certain benefits men do not have. Like, if you are a guy your whole value is based on what you can provide finacially. How many men go decades without any love or affection?
As someone who's lived on both sides of the coin, men have it easier. I was taken more seriously as the most obnoxiously arrogant and petulant 13 year old you can imagine then I am now, for one thing. Men don't have to worry about being predated on and raped/murdered anywhere near as much as women do, for another.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2023, 09:11:43 PM »

But I think there is an agenda to make children trans, who aren't trans.

You are incorrect about this. Do not believe lies from the likes of Matt Walsh, Ron DeSantis, Chiya Raichik, and the like.

Why should we believe that they're lies?

I know this will be lost on you, but you’re making the assertion that certain groups are forcibly transing kids gender. You should be the one providing credible evidence that it’s true

If what you're saying is true, wouldn't you be able to back it up?  Wouldn't you be able to give me a knowable answer as to why more people are declaring as "trans" now than ever before?  You tell me why the incidence of Gender Dysphoria is higher than it has ever been?

I think it's the case both that kids are becoming trans as a result of sociocultural influence,
What actual evidence do you have for this? Because the only "evidence" for sociocultural influence inducing transness when it wasn't there before(as opposed to it allowing more people to recognize it due to increased understanding/decreased stigma) was a terribly done study that's methodology IIRC was basically just asking parents, most of whom were recruited from explicitly anti-trans forums, if they thought their kids were trans because of peer influence, and trusting that extremely biased source as gospel.

And as someone who actually has experienced gender dysphoria and s**t, social contagion and cultural influence theories are contradicted by personal experience, while transness becoming more common for reason analagous to those that made left handedness more common a century ago(increased knowledge of it plus decreased stigma leading to people being more likely to A. know what they're feeling and have language that expresses it, B. actually accept that their feelings are valid, and C. know that transition is a thing that can be done). There was some backround like of the idea of being and presenting female for most of my life, but I didn't know what being trans was until I was 9 or 10 at least, and back then it was described to me by my parents in a way that, while well meaning and not hateful, did end up setting trans people up as some kind of exotic weird people separate from the "default" I (as a white kid who was supposedly "straight" and "male") was taught on a subconscious level by my environment, media and otherwise, that I was. It took a while for me to entertain the idea that I might be trans, and I ended up thinking I wasn't because of some stupid bulls**t test that wasn't and isn't worth a thimble full of piss told me I wasn't(the fact that I gave the answer with the weird maid fetishy stuff to the "do you like cleaning" question because cleaning was kind of satisfying and the other answers all implied not liking it and also I didn't know what a fetish was), and suggested "autogynephillia", a diagnosis of sexual arousal from feeling like a hot women that is ostensibly a male fetish. Of course, the fact that many if not most cis women fit the diagnostic criteria for this "male" "fetish" calls at the very least the first part of that description into question. From my understanding, finding yourself enjoying the thought of being the opposite sex more than being your current sex during "private moments" tends to be a sign that you'd like being the opposite sex more in general.

It’s pretty clear to me that the experience of gender is to a significant degree social and cultural. If the concept of gender and how it relates to sex changes in a culture, why wouldn’t I expect that change how people identify what gender they are?  The act of labeling an experience has a tendency to modify that experience toward the pattern of the label. 

Not just the number but also the demographic profile of who is trans has changed over time. It used to be most were adult MtF, but now a large proportion are adolescent FtM.  This suggests that the things that lead someone to identify as trans today are likely different than in the past.

Regarding left-handedness, the concept of being left-handed isn’t new. And stigma by itself is probably not a good explanation for lower rates a century ago. The historical data on it isn’t great, but it seems that low rates of left-handedness were associated with the industrial revolution and universal education, where kids ended up learning to be right-handed because their physical environments were set up for that, and most adapted to it. Before that, left-handedness might have been about as common as today.
Gender has significant cultural/social elements, but at its core gender is a core part of the human psyche. You need more evidence to imply that transness is some cultural fad than saying that the demographics of the trans community have changed as transness became less dangerous and unknown. The things that leads trans people to identify as trans and transition are gender dysphoria and gender euphoria. The fact that its actually properly understood now is what causes the increase and more equal gender distribution(and the fact that trans men were generally able to present as masculine women without becoming a pariah, while for trans women, presenting oneself as a feminine man meant becoming an outcast.
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Ragnaroni
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« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2023, 02:10:09 AM »

I thought it was gonna be actual terrorism. I was disappointed. Hyperbole sucks...
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afleitch
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« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2023, 05:56:10 AM »

There were Census questions asked of this in the UK.

1% of 16-24 year olds identified as trans

Amongst my age group it's 0.7%. In my parents age group, 0.3%

I've been out of the closet for 22 years.

4.5% of 16-24 men identified as LGB. In my age group 3.5%. In my parents age group 1%

Similar stats for women.

If the 'youngs' are too trans because of some nebulous 'contagion' or because 'it's cool' or 'a phase' what's the 'correct' figure? If the increase in trans ID is in line with that of LGB identification, which it is, then what's our 'correct' figure?

Who's going to start telling gay men pushing 40, 'oh the numbers are a bit high'.

Do this distinct between trans gender and non-binary.

In Denmark 0,54% identifies as non-binary, while 0,1% identifies as transgender. The number of trans women and men are equal, while more people born female (66%) than born male (33%) identifies as non-binary.

Of the general population 1,1% identifies as homosexual (around 75% gays to 25% lesbian), 2,2% identifies as bisexual (around 40% male and 60% female), 0,2% identifies as asexual with a slight overrepresentation of women. 4,8% has a other or unclear sexual identity (over representation of women). 92% of the population identifies as heterosexual (slight overrepresentation of men).

Interesting fact people with a Muslim background are significant more likely than people with a non-Muslim background to identify as LGBTQ+ (in all categories). This came as a surprise when I read it first time. In case of transgender/non-binary 1,8% of people of Muslims background identifies as such, while 0,51% of people of non-Muslim background.

Other interesting fact, homosexuals are massive overrepresented in the capital region, while transgender, non-binary and bisexual are spread out over the country, in fact the regions with the two biggest cities (Copenhagen and Aarhus) is the two region where transgender and non-binary are underrepresented. I find it interesting that people in less urban areas are more likely to have non-cis identity, this in my opinion is a argument against the fashion argument.

Source: Projekt Sexus 2019

You were the one who postulated increased trans ID as reflecting 'fashion'. And compared it to anorexia and ASD.

I have evidence that it correlated with increased LGB identity across age groups.

So if trans is 'fashion' so is LGB. And are you then suggesting that I've been following 'fashion' for the last twenty years?
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ingemann
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« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2023, 07:09:29 AM »

There were Census questions asked of this in the UK.

1% of 16-24 year olds identified as trans

Amongst my age group it's 0.7%. In my parents age group, 0.3%

I've been out of the closet for 22 years.

4.5% of 16-24 men identified as LGB. In my age group 3.5%. In my parents age group 1%

Similar stats for women.

If the 'youngs' are too trans because of some nebulous 'contagion' or because 'it's cool' or 'a phase' what's the 'correct' figure? If the increase in trans ID is in line with that of LGB identification, which it is, then what's our 'correct' figure?

Who's going to start telling gay men pushing 40, 'oh the numbers are a bit high'.

Do this distinct between trans gender and non-binary.

In Denmark 0,54% identifies as non-binary, while 0,1% identifies as transgender. The number of trans women and men are equal, while more people born female (66%) than born male (33%) identifies as non-binary.

Of the general population 1,1% identifies as homosexual (around 75% gays to 25% lesbian), 2,2% identifies as bisexual (around 40% male and 60% female), 0,2% identifies as asexual with a slight overrepresentation of women. 4,8% has a other or unclear sexual identity (over representation of women). 92% of the population identifies as heterosexual (slight overrepresentation of men).

Interesting fact people with a Muslim background are significant more likely than people with a non-Muslim background to identify as LGBTQ+ (in all categories). This came as a surprise when I read it first time. In case of transgender/non-binary 1,8% of people of Muslims background identifies as such, while 0,51% of people of non-Muslim background.

Other interesting fact, homosexuals are massive overrepresented in the capital region, while transgender, non-binary and bisexual are spread out over the country, in fact the regions with the two biggest cities (Copenhagen and Aarhus) is the two region where transgender and non-binary are underrepresented. I find it interesting that people in less urban areas are more likely to have non-cis identity, this in my opinion is a argument against the fashion argument.

Source: Projekt Sexus 2019

You were the one who postulated increased trans ID as reflecting 'fashion'. And compared it to anorexia and ASD.

I have evidence that it correlated with increased LGB identity across age groups.

So if trans is 'fashion' so is LGB. And are you then suggesting that I've been following 'fashion' for the last twenty years?

If you read what I write, I argued that the spread of transgender and non-binary people with overrepresentation in less urban area was in fact a good argument against it being a “fashion”. If it was a fashion we would expect to see an overrepresentation in more “woke” areas and we’re in fact seeing the opposite (in a Danish context). In fact it seems more conservative groups tend to produce a greater number of non-binary and transgender people.

Another argument against the “fashion” argument is that transgender people have a equal gender representation.
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« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2023, 03:21:34 PM »

It’s pretty clear to me that the experience of gender is to a significant degree social and cultural. If the concept of gender and how it relates to sex changes in a culture, why wouldn’t I expect that change how people identify what gender they are?  The act of labeling an experience has a tendency to modify that experience toward the pattern of the label. 

Not just the number but also the demographic profile of who is trans has changed over time. It used to be most were adult MtF, but now a large proportion are adolescent FtM.  This suggests that the things that lead someone to identify as trans today are likely different than in the past.

Regarding left-handedness, the concept of being left-handed isn’t new. And stigma by itself is probably not a good explanation for lower rates a century ago. The historical data on it isn’t great, but it seems that low rates of left-handedness were associated with the industrial revolution and universal education, where kids ended up learning to be right-handed because their physical environments were set up for that, and most adapted to it. Before that, left-handedness might have been about as common as today.
Gender has significant cultural/social elements, but at its core gender is a core part of the human psyche. You need more evidence to imply that transness is some cultural fad than saying that the demographics of the trans community have changed as transness became less dangerous and unknown. The things that leads trans people to identify as trans and transition are gender dysphoria and gender euphoria. The fact that its actually properly understood now is what causes the increase and more equal gender distribution(and the fact that trans men were generally able to present as masculine women without becoming a pariah, while for trans women, presenting oneself as a feminine man meant becoming an outcast.

I am not sure about the idea that trans woman have had an easier time fitting in to society in the past than trans men. I don't know but it's not what I would guess.

It isn't so much a more equal gender distribution now from what is was before, as it is reversed.


https://www.genderhq.org/increase-trans-females-nonbinary-dysphoria
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« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2023, 08:50:38 AM »

"right-wing terrorism"

Goodness gracious, what exagerration
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« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2023, 12:58:39 PM »

"right-wing terrorism"

Goodness gracious, what exagerration

Calling in bomb threats on the basis of your political beliefs is the definition of terrorism.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #120 on: June 04, 2023, 03:24:57 PM »

It’s pretty clear to me that the experience of gender is to a significant degree social and cultural. If the concept of gender and how it relates to sex changes in a culture, why wouldn’t I expect that change how people identify what gender they are?  The act of labeling an experience has a tendency to modify that experience toward the pattern of the label. 

Not just the number but also the demographic profile of who is trans has changed over time. It used to be most were adult MtF, but now a large proportion are adolescent FtM.  This suggests that the things that lead someone to identify as trans today are likely different than in the past.

Regarding left-handedness, the concept of being left-handed isn’t new. And stigma by itself is probably not a good explanation for lower rates a century ago. The historical data on it isn’t great, but it seems that low rates of left-handedness were associated with the industrial revolution and universal education, where kids ended up learning to be right-handed because their physical environments were set up for that, and most adapted to it. Before that, left-handedness might have been about as common as today.
Gender has significant cultural/social elements, but at its core gender is a core part of the human psyche. You need more evidence to imply that transness is some cultural fad than saying that the demographics of the trans community have changed as transness became less dangerous and unknown. The things that leads trans people to identify as trans and transition are gender dysphoria and gender euphoria. The fact that its actually properly understood now is what causes the increase and more equal gender distribution(and the fact that trans men were generally able to present as masculine women without becoming a pariah, while for trans women, presenting oneself as a feminine man meant becoming an outcast.

I am not sure about the idea that trans woman have had an easier time fitting in to society in the past than trans men. I don't know but it's not what I would guess.

It isn't so much a more equal gender distribution now from what is was before, as it is reversed.


https://www.genderhq.org/increase-trans-females-nonbinary-dysphoria
I was saying that trans women didn't have the option to present as a gender nonconforming member of our birth sex with relatively bearable backlash in the same way that trans men did back them. Also the trans women who transitioned back then generally had a lot of resources that afab people were much less likely to have than amab people.

And the site your citing has a very clear agenda that puts its statistics in doubt. And especially when they scaremonger about autistic kids being somehow suckered into transitioning as if people like me are idiots who can't be trusted to understand our own bodies.
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« Reply #121 on: June 04, 2023, 04:55:21 PM »

It’s pretty clear to me that the experience of gender is to a significant degree social and cultural. If the concept of gender and how it relates to sex changes in a culture, why wouldn’t I expect that change how people identify what gender they are?  The act of labeling an experience has a tendency to modify that experience toward the pattern of the label. 

Not just the number but also the demographic profile of who is trans has changed over time. It used to be most were adult MtF, but now a large proportion are adolescent FtM.  This suggests that the things that lead someone to identify as trans today are likely different than in the past.

Regarding left-handedness, the concept of being left-handed isn’t new. And stigma by itself is probably not a good explanation for lower rates a century ago. The historical data on it isn’t great, but it seems that low rates of left-handedness were associated with the industrial revolution and universal education, where kids ended up learning to be right-handed because their physical environments were set up for that, and most adapted to it. Before that, left-handedness might have been about as common as today.
Gender has significant cultural/social elements, but at its core gender is a core part of the human psyche. You need more evidence to imply that transness is some cultural fad than saying that the demographics of the trans community have changed as transness became less dangerous and unknown. The things that leads trans people to identify as trans and transition are gender dysphoria and gender euphoria. The fact that its actually properly understood now is what causes the increase and more equal gender distribution(and the fact that trans men were generally able to present as masculine women without becoming a pariah, while for trans women, presenting oneself as a feminine man meant becoming an outcast.

I am not sure about the idea that trans woman have had an easier time fitting in to society in the past than trans men. I don't know but it's not what I would guess.

It isn't so much a more equal gender distribution now from what is was before, as it is reversed.


https://www.genderhq.org/increase-trans-females-nonbinary-dysphoria
I was saying that trans women didn't have the option to present as a gender nonconforming member of our birth sex with relatively bearable backlash in the same way that trans men did back them. Also the trans women who transitioned back then generally had a lot of resources that afab people were much less likely to have than amab people.

And the site your citing has a very clear agenda that puts its statistics in doubt. And especially when they scaremonger about autistic kids being somehow suckered into transitioning as if people like me are idiots who can't be trusted to understand our own bodies.

The 1st graph figures are from the 2018 UK National LGBT Survey and show self-ID.

The 2nd graph figures are from Tavistock https://gids.nhs.uk/about-us/number-of-referrals/
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TheReckoning
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #122 on: June 27, 2023, 02:22:13 PM »

What does “gender identity development service” even mean?

Deciding to go by “they/them” is very different than getting surgeries and whatnot to completely transform one’s self to the opposite sex, but they often get grouped together in these kinds of things. The former is dominated by females, while the latter is dominated by males.
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Horus
Sheliak5
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« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2023, 03:52:35 PM »

It’s pretty clear to me that the experience of gender is to a significant degree social and cultural. If the concept of gender and how it relates to sex changes in a culture, why wouldn’t I expect that change how people identify what gender they are?  The act of labeling an experience has a tendency to modify that experience toward the pattern of the label. 

Not just the number but also the demographic profile of who is trans has changed over time. It used to be most were adult MtF, but now a large proportion are adolescent FtM.  This suggests that the things that lead someone to identify as trans today are likely different than in the past.

Regarding left-handedness, the concept of being left-handed isn’t new. And stigma by itself is probably not a good explanation for lower rates a century ago. The historical data on it isn’t great, but it seems that low rates of left-handedness were associated with the industrial revolution and universal education, where kids ended up learning to be right-handed because their physical environments were set up for that, and most adapted to it. Before that, left-handedness might have been about as common as today.
Gender has significant cultural/social elements, but at its core gender is a core part of the human psyche. You need more evidence to imply that transness is some cultural fad than saying that the demographics of the trans community have changed as transness became less dangerous and unknown. The things that leads trans people to identify as trans and transition are gender dysphoria and gender euphoria. The fact that its actually properly understood now is what causes the increase and more equal gender distribution(and the fact that trans men were generally able to present as masculine women without becoming a pariah, while for trans women, presenting oneself as a feminine man meant becoming an outcast.

I am not sure about the idea that trans woman have had an easier time fitting in to society in the past than trans men. I don't know but it's not what I would guess.

It isn't so much a more equal gender distribution now from what is was before, as it is reversed.


https://www.genderhq.org/increase-trans-females-nonbinary-dysphoria
I was saying that trans women didn't have the option to present as a gender nonconforming member of our birth sex with relatively bearable backlash in the same way that trans men did back them. Also the trans women who transitioned back then generally had a lot of resources that afab people were much less likely to have than amab people.

And the site your citing has a very clear agenda that puts its statistics in doubt. And especially when they scaremonger about autistic kids being somehow suckered into transitioning as if people like me are idiots who can't be trusted to understand our own bodies.

The 1st graph figures are from the 2018 UK National LGBT Survey and show self-ID.

The 2nd graph figures are from Tavistock https://gids.nhs.uk/about-us/number-of-referrals/

No response to this, figures.
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