LGC 13.13 - Prohibition of Defenselessness of the Region Amendment - Ratified

[Oleg 🇰🇿🤝🇺🇦]

Proposal A fails 2-3
Proposal B is tied, 2-2-1
Proposal C fails 2-3

The Governor will break the tie

The Tied Amendment is as follows:

Prohibition of Defenselessness of the Region Amendment

To avoid a repetition of the situation when we hastily had to restore the defense of the region, diverting funds from aid to a region in crisis


Add a new Section to the Bill of Rights between Section 3 and Section 4:

3.1 The Lincoln General Court shall make no laws or acts that directly or indirectly result in the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard without either securing unanimous consent, or via referendum. The Governor shall not order the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard.

Proposal B:

Aye

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Proposal B passes 3-2-1

[Pyro]

Well, it appears we're back where we started. I will reiterate that I do not support the proposal as-is. Outright prohibiting the LGC from enacting changes to the region is generally a bad idea. It is important in the present crisis to maintain the Lincoln National Guard, but it is unacceptable to deny the legislature any future opportunity to reform/re-organize/withdraw a service meant only for regional emergencies.

[Oleg 🇰🇿🤝🇺🇦]

Well, it appears we're back where we started. I will reiterate that I do not support the proposal as-is. Outright prohibiting the LGC from enacting changes to the region is generally a bad idea. It is important in the present crisis to maintain the Lincoln National Guard, but it is unacceptable to deny the legislature any future opportunity to reform/re-organize/withdraw a service meant only for regional emergencies.

The feds can still do it.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Well, it appears we're back where we started. I will reiterate that I do not support the proposal as-is. Outright prohibiting the LGC from enacting changes to the region is generally a bad idea. It is important in the present crisis to maintain the Lincoln National Guard, but it is unacceptable to deny the legislature any future opportunity to reform/re-organize/withdraw a service meant only for regional emergencies.

Accomodating this desire was exactly my intent with proposal C - keeping the ability to abolish the guard, but making it difficult - which, btw, would have carried the day had you voted Aye, receiving the largest proportion of votes from LGC members. I am opposed to the original amendment by you (Proposal A) because of the way it was exploited during the secession crisis. I am not saying that doing nothing - leaving the matter to legislation - is my goal, but I don't want to replace that system with something with an even worse legacy.

Is there some form of the two step process - LGC and Referendum - that you would support? Unanimous LGC support and referendum majority approval (as the only method)? Simple Majority in the LGC and two thirds support at referendum? I am more than willing to work something out here.

[Pyro]

Well, it appears we're back where we started. I will reiterate that I do not support the proposal as-is. Outright prohibiting the LGC from enacting changes to the region is generally a bad idea. It is important in the present crisis to maintain the Lincoln National Guard, but it is unacceptable to deny the legislature any future opportunity to reform/re-organize/withdraw a service meant only for regional emergencies.

Accomodating this desire was exactly my intent with proposal C - keeping the ability to abolish the guard, but making it difficult - which, btw, would have carried the day had you voted Aye, receiving the largest proportion of votes from LGC members. I am opposed to the original amendment by you (Proposal A) because of the way it was exploited during the secession crisis. I am not saying that doing nothing - leaving the matter to legislation - is my goal, but I don't want to replace that system with something with an even worse legacy.

Is there some form of the two step process - LGC and Referendum - that you would support? Unanimous LGC support and referendum majority approval (as the only method)? Simple Majority in the LGC and two thirds support at referendum? I am more than willing to work something out here.

I am willing to support a two-step process that includes majority support of the LGC + majority support in a referendum. I don't really see the need to make a future reform to the Lincoln National Guard tougher to pass than a constitutional amendment.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment:

3.1 The Lincoln General Court shall make no laws or acts that directly or indirectly result in the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard, except by an absolute majority of the LGC and majority support at a subsequent referendum. The Governor shall not order the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard.

[NewYorkExpress]

Objection.

We really shouldn't be leaving ways to dissolve the National Guard, given their usefulness beyond the current crisis, such as blizzards and hurricanes.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Objection.

We really shouldn't be leaving ways to dissolve the National Guard, given their usefulness beyond the current crisis, such as blizzards and hurricanes.

Amendments require 2/3 support to go before the people. I am trying to find a way to get to 4 votes here. We may not love just having a higher threshold, but the votes don't exist to actually pass the original.

[NewYorkExpress]

Objection.

We really shouldn't be leaving ways to dissolve the National Guard, given their usefulness beyond the current crisis, such as blizzards and hurricanes.

Amendments require 2/3 support to go before the people. I am trying to find a way to get to 4 votes here. We may not love just having a higher threshold, but the votes don't exist to actually pass the original.

I'm still going to object, but I'm aware that this probably has the votes to pass.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Objection.

We really shouldn't be leaving ways to dissolve the National Guard, given their usefulness beyond the current crisis, such as blizzards and hurricanes.

Amendments require 2/3 support to go before the people. I am trying to find a way to get to 4 votes here. We may not love just having a higher threshold, but the votes don't exist to actually pass the original.

I'm still going to object, but I'm aware that this probably has the votes to pass.

I would hope that you can at least vote for this at final passage.

[Oleg 🇰🇿🤝🇺🇦]

I repeat that the federal government of Atlasia has the right to absorb with its army, disband or otherwise reorganize the National Guard of any region of Atlasia, and that is enough.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Question is on the amendment:

Amendment:

3.1 The Lincoln General Court shall make no laws or acts that directly or indirectly result in the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard, except by an absolute majority of the LGC and majority support at a subsequent referendum. The Governor shall not order the abolition of the Lincoln National Guard.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Aye

[NewYorkExpress]

Abstain

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Aye

[Pyro]

Aye

[S019]

Aye

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment Passes 4-0-1

Motion for a final vote

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

A vote on this is beginning

Aye

[NewYorkExpress]

Nay

[Pyro]

Aye

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

aye

[S019]

Nay

[NewYorkExpress]

Changing vote to Aye.