Is “expanding definition of whiteness” a real thing?

[TheReckoning]

I’ve often heard of the phenomenon of “expanding definition of whiteness”- meaning that overtime, the exact groups that are considered “white” has been growing. For example, some people claim that originally in the USA, only WASPs were considered white, and them overtime more and more groups were brought into the “white” fold- Italians, Irish, Slavs, Catholics, Jews, etc. And therefore, it can be assumed that who is considered “white” will continue to grow in the future.

To be honest, I’m not very knowledgeable on this, but I’m not sure if this supposed phenomenon is real. For one, were people like Italians, Irish, and Poles, ever actually not considered “white” in the United States? I understand they may have still faced discrimination, but was that for not being “white”? For example, would a marriage between an Italian and an English person have been considered an “interracial marriage”?

Secondly, it seems like in recent times, certain groups have been identifying as “white” less, not more. For example, in the 2010 census, over 50% of Hispanic and Latino Americans identified as “white”, while in 2020, only around 20% did. This implies that people on the fringes of “white” or “person of color” are becoming more likely to identify with the latter, not the other way around.

Finally, I stumbled upon an article today about the ethnic identity of Arab Christians linked below. According to the study, published sometime in the 2010s, 68% of Arab Christians older than 50 thought of themselves as white, while only 47% of those under the age of 50 thought of themselves as white. This implies that the more recently one has developed their ethnic identity, the more likely they are to think of themselves as non-white, indicating the the definition of white is arguably shrinking. Also, the Arab Christians most likely to identify as non-white were “activists and academics”, typically thought of as people who are “forward thinking”, indicating that they have a more “modern” view of race.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14755610.2017.1402797

TL;DR Historically, I’m not sure if “white” was actually limited only to WASPs. In more recent years, Latinos and Arabs- groups on the fringes of being white- seem less likely to identify as white than they would have in recent decades. This casts doubt on the whole “expanding definition of whiteness” to me.

[TheReckoning]

Here are some stories I have in the back of my memory.  I don't know if they're true or not.

- In the mid-18th century, Benjamin Franklin was worried about Pennsylvania being overrun by Germans, whom he believed to be incapable of assimilation.

- As late as the early 19th century, there were places in America where Catholics paid extra taxes.  (Maryland in particular is the place stuck in my head.)  There was a long-term mindset among Englishman that Catholics' first allegiance was to a foreign potentate, the Pope, and that mindset dated back to at least the Gunpowder Plot of 1605.

- In 1890's New Orleans, a Black man was arrested for miscenegation with an Italian woman.  The judge threw out the case.  Although the judge found Italians to be legally White, he thought it might not be obvious and that the defendant had made an honest mistake.

- For most of the 19th century, having Native American ancestry would have been something to keep hidden.  As the nation became flooded with immigrants at the turn of the century, having Native American ancestry suddenly became proof that you were a native-born American and "belonged" here.  The rise of fraternal organizations stressing old-line ancestry, such as the Daughters of the American Revolution, came about at the same time and from similar motivations.


In the modern day, it feels to me like "Whiteness" is expanding to include African-Americans.  The strongest dividing line again seems to be between established American ethnicities and recent immigrants, and African-Americans clearly belong to the former, in a way that Salvadorans or Pakistanis may not.

Lmao. Summer of the 2020 completely proves this false.

[TheReckoning]

In the modern day, it feels to me like "Whiteness" is expanding to include African-Americans.  The strongest dividing line again seems to be between established American ethnicities and recent immigrants, and African-Americans clearly belong to the former, in a way that Salvadorans or Pakistanis may not.

Lmao. Summer of the 2020 completely proves this false.

It's true if you think of "whiteness" as "the American cultural mainstream", and really has been long before BLM became a thing.

But that’s… not how race is viewed here? Race is way more complex than “cultural mainstream”, lmao.

[TheReckoning]

In the modern day, it feels to me like "Whiteness" is expanding to include African-Americans.  The strongest dividing line again seems to be between established American ethnicities and recent immigrants, and African-Americans clearly belong to the former, in a way that Salvadorans or Pakistanis may not.

Lmao. Summer of the 2020 completely proves this false.

It's true if you think of "whiteness" as "the American cultural mainstream", and really has been long before BLM became a thing.

That would be an unspeakably stupid definition and it wouldn't be an accurate statement even then. Sitcoms and television commercials had more black people in them forty-five years ago than they do now.

Is that really the case? Is it because black people have become less prominent relative to Asians/Latinos?

[TheReckoning]

TheReckoning, you bring up some interesting examples. These findings may simply be meaningless in a real world context, or they may point to the unwinding of the idea of a cohesive American identity.

What do you mean by this?

[TheReckoning]

Sort of, but it appears that way because of a misconception.

The American racial divide is not white/nonwhite, it's nonblack/black.

So what do you think of the other poster saying that “Whiteness” is expanding to include African Americans, while Latinos and Asians may be the ones feeling most out of the mainstream?

[TheReckoning]

I think it has.

I am a teacher in a suburban area, near a military base. There are a lot of children who are half white and half asian. For the most part, they are lumped with the white kids. I mean, they look pretty white. Act white. So they are considered white (until its time to apply for college scholarships hehehe).

I am starting to notice more half white half hispanic children. They also seem to be lumped with the whites.

Of course, half white half black children are considered black 100% of the time.

For a long time “Hispanics” were not considered anything but white in the USA- they’ve only been considered a different group since the late 20th century. That signals a contraction in the definition of “whiteness.”

[TheReckoning]

Now that the census officially defines Hispanics, Latinos, and Middle Easterners are separate from whites, seems like this has officially happened. I wonder what the next groups that are now considered white will be considered non white.