Majority of Americans reject anti-trans bills, but support for this restriction is rising
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  Majority of Americans reject anti-trans bills, but support for this restriction is rising
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Author Topic: Majority of Americans reject anti-trans bills, but support for this restriction is rising  (Read 1985 times)
Arizona Iced Tea
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« on: March 30, 2023, 02:58:30 PM »



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-reject-anti-trans-bills-but-support-for-this-restriction-is-rising

Conservatives are still in the minority when it comes to trans issues but they've made massive headways in the last 2 years going from -37 to now just -11. Will the gap contintue to shrink further?
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2023, 03:03:55 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

DeSantis didn’t outperform Trump by 16 points because FL is a Republican trending state but because of the fact that many independents and even some democrats support what he’s doing or at the very least don’t mind and democrats attacking DeSantis this hard on them backfires on them .
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Horus
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2023, 03:08:44 PM »
« Edited: March 30, 2023, 03:19:24 PM by Horus »

The same poll shows bans on drag shows to be much less popular, with just about 60% in opposition. This fits with what I'm seeing on the ground, there's definitely movement towards banning gender "affirming" care for minors, but pretty much all other gender issues will be a much heavier lift for social traditionalists.

Also 83% believe healthcare coverage is a fundamental right. Vosem and Haley/Ryan in shambles.
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afleitch
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2023, 03:21:54 PM »

The poll has strongest support for anti-trans bills amongst the youngest and the weakest amongst the oldest in the crosstabs...

And with drag show bans apparently...

Who were they interviewing?
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Sol
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2023, 04:13:58 PM »

This tracks with it being a partisan issue.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2023, 04:21:45 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2023, 04:48:23 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2023, 05:05:47 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.

I think the opposite is likely true, as many people are assuming that "gender-affirming care" means permanent sex-change surgeries.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2023, 05:06:46 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.

I think the opposite is likely true, as many people are assuming that "gender-affirming care" means permanent sex-change surgeries.

I doubt it.
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Harry
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2023, 05:09:03 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.

I think the opposite is likely true, as many people are assuming that "gender-affirming care" means permanent sex-change surgeries.

I doubt it.

I don't know, any time a red state legislator gets called out on why they would vote to ban all gender-affirming care, regardless of reversibility or parental consent, they always default to something like "I just don't think children need to be having sex change operations." Whether they're sincere buffoons or just deflecting on purpose, it's likely that a lot of voters believe that's what it's all about.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2023, 05:37:17 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.

I think the opposite is likely true, as many people are assuming that "gender-affirming care" means permanent sex-change surgeries.

I doubt it.

I don't know, any time a red state legislator gets called out on why they would vote to ban all gender-affirming care, regardless of reversibility or parental consent, they always default to something like "I just don't think children need to be having sex change operations." Whether they're sincere buffoons or just deflecting on purpose, it's likely that a lot of voters believe that's what it's all about.

From my experience, which I grant is not in liberal enclaves but it's definitely with a diverse range of people nonetheless, even the most liberal (or in some cases completely apolitical) people think the concept of puberty blockers is like a Frankenstein science experiment. I think it's easily one of the biggest hangups that the left and everyone else has on this. The left sets up its supposed opposition to sex change surgeries on minors as an example of how reasonable they are and then say all they support is puberty blockers. But a lot of people, possibly even most Americans, do not think it's reasonable to give children those either.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2023, 05:40:44 PM »

99% chance that a lot or people polled don't know that "gender affirming care" can mean puberty blockers with no hormones and no surgery.
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Pericles
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2023, 06:10:40 PM »

I doubt most people care about it, it only affects a small minority. That has unfortunate implications but in this case means that Republicans look bad for focusing on it so much and get heard less on issues people care about more.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2023, 06:22:56 PM »

What we're seeing here is more Americans coming to see "gender-affirming care" as a euphemism for sex change.
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2023, 06:48:43 PM »

Considering how obsessive the anti-trans press coverage has been on this front, it's actually pretty remarkable that this is all the movement they've been able to generate.
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2023, 08:29:34 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

poll shows majority of Americans oppose laws banning gender-affirming care for minors

OSR: Democrats are in denial

You are absolutely delusional.

If the poll was phrased a bit differently then it would be a majority in favor, I suspect. "Do you support a ban on puberty-blocking drugs and cross sex hormones for minors?" would likely break 50% approval.

I think the opposite is likely true, as many people are assuming that "gender-affirming care" means permanent sex-change surgeries.

I doubt it.

I don't know, any time a red state legislator gets called out on why they would vote to ban all gender-affirming care, regardless of reversibility or parental consent, they always default to something like "I just don't think children need to be having sex change operations." Whether they're sincere buffoons or just deflecting on purpose, it's likely that a lot of voters believe that's what it's all about.

Maybe, but its also clearly the case that whoever came up with the phrase "gender-affirming care" wanted it to sound like something vaguely good and normal.   It's not normally called that by people who oppose it.
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2023, 08:46:05 PM »

Also 83% believe healthcare coverage is a fundamental right. Vosem and Haley/Ryan in shambles.

I don't think most people interpret this question as asking 'should the government provide healthcare for everyone'. (OTOH, polls do show narrow majorities supporting that -- but on the other hand, with frequent swings in both directions and elections fought on the question suggesting quite large majorities actually oppose it when the chips are down.) To give an analogy, if anything a larger majority of Americans would agree that food is a fundamental right, but virtually nobody supports nationalization of the grocery system. (A smaller number would say education is a fundamental right -- but Republicans win running against public schools all the time.)
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2023, 10:10:01 PM »

This shows that democrats on here are in denial of how unpopular a lot of DeSantis’s legislation on trans issues would be cause most of them are more moderate than this .

DeSantis didn’t outperform Trump by 16 points because FL is a Republican trending state but because of the fact that many independents and even some democrats support what he’s doing or at the very least don’t mind and democrats attacking DeSantis this hard on them backfires on them .

According to exit polling DeSantis only won only 6% of Biden voters while Crist won 5% of Trump voters with an R+11 electorate. There may be some Dems who support it or at least are willing to overlook it but I think conservatives moving in had more of an impact than anything DeSantis did.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2023, 10:25:34 PM »

Maybe, but its also clearly the case that whoever came up with the phrase "gender-affirming care" wanted it to sound like something vaguely good and normal.   It's not normally called that by people who oppose it.

This is 100% wrong if we're talking about political messaging. The politicians almost always call it "gender affirming care", because by this point, they've trained right wingers to assume that "gender affirming care" means genital surgery, when in fact, for minors, it almost always only means puberty blockers and sometimes hormones as well.

An analogy one could make would be that very passionate tongue-kissing, touching of breasts or genitals with hands, oral sex and intercourse would all be considered under the umbrella of "sexual activities",  but at different levels between mild and extreme. The Republicans are fear-mongering that the "worst case" scenario / extreme scenario is usually what's happening, when in fact, it's only happening a very small % of the time. Matt Walsh got caught inventing fake statistics about this off the top of his head when he was on the Joe Rogan show.
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« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2023, 10:02:17 AM »

Also 83% believe healthcare coverage is a fundamental right. Vosem and Haley/Ryan in shambles.

I don't think most people interpret this question as asking 'should the government provide healthcare for everyone'. (OTOH, polls do show narrow majorities supporting that -- but on the other hand, with frequent swings in both directions and elections fought on the question suggesting quite large majorities actually oppose it when the chips are down.) To give an analogy, if anything a larger majority of Americans would agree that food is a fundamental right, but virtually nobody supports nationalization of the grocery system. (A smaller number would say education is a fundamental right -- but Republicans win running against public schools all the time.)

Right. I don't believe that healthcare or food are fundamental rights (and think most Americans could be somewhat easily convinced of this if it were actually a major topic of public discussion, if they aren't already of this view*), but the question is also not very important in current politics because believing healthcare is a right is perfectly reconcilable with opposing government actually running healthcare.

*And by this, I mean that I think that many people hear the question "Is healthcare coverage a fundamental right?" and you get a higher answer % for it being a right than the actual definition of a right because the question phrasing ignores what this would actually mean in practice. Theoretically, a right to healthcare would include some form of doctors being mandated to provide healthcare, or at the very least an obligation on the part of others to provide said healthcare, which I cannot imagine being even remotely popular.
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« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2023, 10:04:53 AM »

Also 83% believe healthcare coverage is a fundamental right. Vosem and Haley/Ryan in shambles.

I don't think most people interpret this question as asking 'should the government provide healthcare for everyone'. (OTOH, polls do show narrow majorities supporting that -- but on the other hand, with frequent swings in both directions and elections fought on the question suggesting quite large majorities actually oppose it when the chips are down.) To give an analogy, if anything a larger majority of Americans would agree that food is a fundamental right, but virtually nobody supports nationalization of the grocery system. (A smaller number would say education is a fundamental right -- but Republicans win running against public schools all the time.)

Right. I don't believe that healthcare or food are fundamental rights (and think most Americans could be somewhat easily convinced of this if it were actually a major topic of public discussion, if they aren't already of this view*), but the question is also not very important in current politics because believing healthcare is a right is perfectly reconcilable with opposing government actually running healthcare.

*And by this, I mean that I think that many people hear the question "Is healthcare coverage a fundamental right?" and you get a higher answer % for it being a right than the actual definition of a right because the question phrasing ignores what this would actually mean in practice. Theoretically, a right to healthcare would include some form of doctors being mandated to provide healthcare, or at the very least an obligation on the part of others to provide said healthcare, which I cannot imagine being even remotely popular.
This is true.
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« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2023, 02:10:27 PM »

Maybe, but its also clearly the case that whoever came up with the phrase "gender-affirming care" wanted it to sound like something vaguely good and normal.   It's not normally called that by people who oppose it.

This is 100% wrong if we're talking about political messaging. The politicians almost always call it "gender affirming care", because by this point, they've trained right wingers to assume that "gender affirming care" means genital surgery, when in fact, for minors, it almost always only means puberty blockers and sometimes hormones as well.

An analogy one could make would be that very passionate tongue-kissing, touching of breasts or genitals with hands, oral sex and intercourse would all be considered under the umbrella of "sexual activities",  but at different levels between mild and extreme. The Republicans are fear-mongering that the "worst case" scenario / extreme scenario is usually what's happening, when in fact, it's only happening a very small % of the time. Matt Walsh got caught inventing fake statistics about this off the top of his head when he was on the Joe Rogan show.

Find me some right-wing politicians who say "gender-affirming care."  Maybe some say "gender-affirming" but do they say "care"?
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2023, 08:42:19 PM »

Maybe, but its also clearly the case that whoever came up with the phrase "gender-affirming care" wanted it to sound like something vaguely good and normal.   It's not normally called that by people who oppose it.

This is 100% wrong if we're talking about political messaging. The politicians almost always call it "gender affirming care", because by this point, they've trained right wingers to assume that "gender affirming care" means genital surgery, when in fact, for minors, it almost always only means puberty blockers and sometimes hormones as well.

An analogy one could make would be that very passionate tongue-kissing, touching of breasts or genitals with hands, oral sex and intercourse would all be considered under the umbrella of "sexual activities",  but at different levels between mild and extreme. The Republicans are fear-mongering that the "worst case" scenario / extreme scenario is usually what's happening, when in fact, it's only happening a very small % of the time. Matt Walsh got caught inventing fake statistics about this off the top of his head when he was on the Joe Rogan show.

Find me some right-wing politicians who say "gender-affirming care."  Maybe some say "gender-affirming" but do they say "care"?

Typically they "say" it by crafting or endorsing legislation that uses that phrase. I think I may have seen it a few times too where a left winger supports "gender affirming care", and then in the right winger's response / critique, they alude to heavily imply surgery.
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« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2023, 09:34:47 PM »

What we're seeing here is more Americans coming to see "gender-affirming care" as a euphemism for sex change.
Speak for yourself. I've been experiencing gender-affirming care for five years now, and perhaps the most notable aspect of my sex still hasn't changed, and not for lack of trying!
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2023, 09:48:20 PM »

What we're seeing here is more Americans coming to see "gender-affirming care" as a euphemism for sex change.
Speak for yourself. I've been experiencing gender-affirming care for five years now, and perhaps the most notable aspect of my sex still hasn't changed, and not for lack of trying!

I'm not speaking for anyone just guessing at what is causing this uptick.  I think the GOP messaging on this has been pretty successful as most of the media is now conflating the two.
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