Should TikTok be banned and if so why?

[GeneralMacArthur]

There's a variety of different takes on the TikTok ban, with a lot of positions beyond the simple Yes or No.  I would like to get your thoughts on this.

Here are the different positions I've noticed, in descending order of Anti-TikTok-ness.

The first is the belief that the app is simply inherently harmful and dangerous, regardless of any association with the Chinese Communist Party.  The app is designed to be maximally addictive, apparently without any care towards what videos people are watching, and people ensnared in its little Skinner Box can spend 5-6 hours a day scrolling.  The algorithm is designed to create information bubbles and rabbit holes.  It pushes out dangerous misinformation and foreign propaganda, and for young people it's driving them towards self-harm behavior and mental illness.  No app this reckless and addictive should be allowed to operate.

Next is the belief that, yes maybe the app is like that but it's specifically because of an intentional strategy by the Chinese Communist Party.  China pulls the levers to make sure anti-American propaganda shows up in the feeds of American voters, and tries to cripple the next generation by showing them whatever's most likely to damage their mental and physical well-being.  And it hides all this behind a mask of cat videos and arts+crafts tutorials.

Another take is, maybe the app isn't dangerous on its own, but the sheer volume and granularity of data about Americans being handed over to the Chinese Communist Party is dangerous.  Some believe Shou Chew is lying and the app is already doing this, either via direct sharing or the creation of a backdoor that lets them pretend they got "hacked" if ever discovered.  Others believe Mr. Chew is telling the truth and China does not currently have access, but there's nothing stopping them from seizing access in the future.  China could use this information to plan information warfare against the American populace, to blackmail and manipulate individuals, etc.

There's also mixed reactions to TikTok's "Texas Plan" to move all its data onto an Oracle server farm in Texas.  Some folks think TikTok as it currently exists should be banned, but as long as all the data is stored on American soil it's ok.  Others think it's too easy to just pull data off those servers and read it from China, or replicate it offshore, and having it be in America doesn't achieve anything.

Then among the "No" crowd there's several different beliefs.  Some believe TikTok isn't doing anything wrong, so they shouldn't be banned.  Some believe TikTok is sharing data with the Chinese Communist Party, but this is ok because "I'm too smart, China could never manipulate me.  By the way did you know Ukraine is a bunch of gay nazis?"  Lastly there's the free speech crowd who think that even if TikTok is pushing the "drink bleach challenge" all over your 14-year-old's feed, that's ok because free speech.  After all isn't this just the same content that's been on Tumblr for over a decade?

[OSR stands with Israel]

I basically want our and China’s tech industry to completely decouple . Not only do I support banning TikTok but I also support imposing a 100% revenue tax on our revenues our tech companies get in China . Effectively the goal should also be to get our tech companies from not doing business with China as well .

[Xing]

No (other), because instead of banning apps, i.e. doing exactly what the Chinese government does (aren’t we supposed to be the “good” guys?) we should be regulating what all tech companies do with their users’ data, not just TikTok. The fact that there’s no discussion of what Facebook/Meta is doing or how many members of Congress might have stock in them is quite telling.

[OSR stands with Israel]

No (other), because instead of banning apps, i.e. doing exactly what the Chinese government does (aren’t we supposed to be the “good” guys?) we should be regulating what all tech companies do with their users’ data, not just TikTok. The fact that there’s no discussion of what Facebook/Meta is doing or how many members of Congress might have stock in them is quite telling.

American companies have constitutional protections unlike foreign ones so of course they get more protection

[MasterJedi]

It’s a double sided thing. It’s not inherently bad but it is a Chinese security threat and a lot of Trumpian propaganda flows through into the easily brainwashed fans.

[It’s so Joever]

There's a variety of different takes on the TikTok ban, with a lot of positions beyond the simple Yes or No.  I would like to get your thoughts on this.

Here are the different positions I've noticed, in descending order of Anti-TikTok-ness.

The first is the belief that the app is simply inherently harmful and dangerous, regardless of any association with the Chinese Communist Party.  The app is designed to be maximally addictive, apparently without any care towards what videos people are watching, and people ensnared in its little Skinner Box can spend 5-6 hours a day scrolling.  The algorithm is designed to create information bubbles and rabbit holes.  It pushes out dangerous misinformation and foreign propaganda, and for young people it's driving them towards self-harm behavior and mental illness.  No app this reckless and addictive should be allowed to operate.

Next is the belief that, yes maybe the app is like that but it's specifically because of an intentional strategy by the Chinese Communist Party.  China pulls the levers to make sure anti-American propaganda shows up in the feeds of American voters, and tries to cripple the next generation by showing them whatever's most likely to damage their mental and physical well-being.  And it hides all this behind a mask of cat videos and arts+crafts tutorials.

Another take is, maybe the app isn't dangerous on its own, but the sheer volume and granularity of data about Americans being handed over to the Chinese Communist Party is dangerous.  Some believe Shou Chew is lying and the app is already doing this, either via direct sharing or the creation of a backdoor that lets them pretend they got "hacked" if ever discovered.  Others believe Mr. Chew is telling the truth and China does not currently have access, but there's nothing stopping them from seizing access in the future.  China could use this information to plan information warfare against the American populace, to blackmail and manipulate individuals, etc.

There's also mixed reactions to TikTok's "Texas Plan" to move all its data onto an Oracle server farm in Texas.  Some folks think TikTok as it currently exists should be banned, but as long as all the data is stored on American soil it's ok.  Others think it's too easy to just pull data off those servers and read it from China, or replicate it offshore, and having it be in America doesn't achieve anything.

Then among the "No" crowd there's several different beliefs.  Some believe TikTok isn't doing anything wrong, so they shouldn't be banned.  Some believe TikTok is sharing data with the Chinese Communist Party, but this is ok because "I'm too smart, China could never manipulate me.  By the way did you know Ukraine is a bunch of gay nazis?"  Lastly there's the free speech crowd who think that even if TikTok is pushing the "drink bleach challenge" all over your 14-year-old's feed, that's ok because free speech.  After all isn't this just the same content that's been on Tumblr for over a decade?

Tiktok is fairly pro Ukraine lmao. When the invasion started my entire feed was about how to support the country and I literally am the furthest away from the political side of the app generally. It’s the blue avatars who think Russia is our friend who want to ban tiktok the most.

[Ferguson97]

TikTok sucks but I'm fine with it staying if it gets an American buyer.

[Xing]

No (other), because instead of banning apps, i.e. doing exactly what the Chinese government does (aren’t we supposed to be the “good” guys?) we should be regulating what all tech companies do with their users’ data, not just TikTok. The fact that there’s no discussion of what Facebook/Meta is doing or how many members of Congress might have stock in them is quite telling.

American companies have constitutional protections unlike foreign ones so of course they get more protection

Should they, though?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yes but not primarily for “national security” reasons.

Also I find it noteworthy that Republicans, who have accused Democrats of being too hawkish on Russia in contrast to “Trump the dove”, seem determined to start a war with China. Apparently the post-9/11 wars were not sufficient.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No why do you think Tiffany Griner was freed Nike Town and Chinese Food Chop Suey commerce in US it's no coincidence China hasn't attacked Taiwan we trade with China and Singapore and Philippines and Japan cell phones and Laptop and Toyota

Bruce Lee wasn't Japanese eventhough all of them are Mongolian even Arabs and Latinos cone from. Asia they just don't have slanted eyes bur some Latinos do have slanted eyes and so do Samoans Asian came from Light skin Egypt Blks and Hebrew Queens

They said Jesus made us God made blks and Jesus since he was a Hebrew made white race

I wear a 12 gym shoe but have to get a 14 because Chinese shoes are smaller than American same with jerseys you have to get them bigger

We never went to Nuke war China over Vietnam because we had Bruce Lee whom protest against Nam

[It’s so Joever]

No why do you think Tiffany Griner was freed Nike Town and Chinese Food Chop Suey commerce in US it's no coincidence China hasn't attacked Taiwan we trade with China and Singapore and Philippines and Japan cell phones and Laptop and Toyota

Bruce Lee wasn't Japanese eventhough all of them are Mongolian even Arabs and Latinos cone from. Asia they just don't have slanted eyes bur some Latinos do have slanted eyes and so do Samoans Asian came from Light skin Egypt Blks and Hebrew Queens

They said Jesus made us God made blks and Jesus since he was a Hebrew made white race

I wear a 12 gym shoe but have to get a 14 because Chinese shoes are smaller than American same with jerseys you have to get them bigger

We never went to Nuke war China over Vietnam because we had Bruce Lee whom protest against Nam

It’s a bad sign when OC makes more sense than most of Atlas on an issue.

[nfvlmv]

Yes ban TikTok. I think it's rotting brains. TikTok is poisoning Gen Z and Millennials the same way Facebook poisoned boomers.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Why would the Chinese do something that would destabilize their main competitor?

Anyway, I (for once) agree with OSR. Stop Chinese intellectual property theft and see what they do.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

No (other), because instead of banning apps, i.e. doing exactly what the Chinese government does (aren’t we supposed to be the “good” guys?) we should be regulating what all tech companies do with their users’ data, not just TikTok. The fact that there’s no discussion of what Facebook/Meta is doing or how many members of Congress might have stock in them is quite telling.

American companies have constitutional protections unlike foreign ones so of course they get more protection

Ah yes, the "right to make a profit on my chosen business model". It's right there in Article VIII.

Personally, I agree with Xing. That we allow the unfettered theft (whether by extortion or fraud is immaterial) and sale of personal data is completely unconscionable, and has led to a vast waste of resources and time, to the detriment of the country. The exact opposite of the result the "free market" (which increasingly means, "free of risk to capitalists, whether from the law or the consequences of their own bad decisions"... which I suppose is ultimately the same thing) is intended to produce.

[Dr. MB]

No. I don't use tiktok. It's done terrible things for even the average person's attention span and it's annoying when people just scroll through it with the sound on full volume with no consideration for anyone who might be sitting nearby and doesn't wanna hear that sh!t.

I don't like it. That's nowhere near a good case for banning it though as long as similar apps are allowed to stay up.

They should all be nationalized though with privacy protections embedded in and their executives should go to jail

[Meclazine for Israel]

Yes,

How dare another business outside California invent a popular social media app

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

No (Other) - Tiktok should be treated the same way we treat all social media companies. We should be passing real privacy protections that limit how *all of them* handle and sell user data, not targeting one platform simply because it is owned by a foreign company.

[Torie]

The case for it being a Chinese security threat has not been made to me, and until it is, it should be treated the same as any other social media. Does anyone care to carefully lay out that case to me?

In general, I quite loathe social media, but that is another matter.

[SWE]

No. I'm trying to think of a problem less worth caring about than China having my data and I'm drawing a complete blank.

[It’s so Joever]

The case for it being a Chinese security threat has not been made to me, and until it is, it should be treated the same as any other social media. Does anyone care to carefully lay out that case to me?

In general, I quite loathe social media, but that is another matter.

“It could be if xyz”

[lfromnj]

The main reason to ban it is for retaliatory protectionism.  Other countries may restrict what American social media can put on but still allow them to profit. China simply bans American social media even if they were to abide by their rules.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

No (Other) - Tiktok should be treated the same way we treat all social media companies. We should be passing real privacy protections that limit how *all of them* handle and sell user data, not targeting one platform simply because it is owned by a foreign company.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Yes, because I think its a dumb platform

[GeneralMacArthur]

This poll is split exactly 52-48 in favor of banning TikTok right now.  One of the most divisive polls in Atlas history.

[It’s so Joever]

This poll is split exactly 52-48 in favor of banning TikTok right now.  One of the most divisive polls in Atlas history.

A shockingly high number of Atlas users aren’t either complete jingoistic tools, edgelords who project the feelings over rejection from high school prom onto hating everything young women use, or bought out with some Zuck Bucks yet.