I am going to anger a lot of folks on here, but I have mixed feelings about the indictment
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  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Trump is “America’s Hitler”)
  I am going to anger a lot of folks on here, but I have mixed feelings about the indictment
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Author Topic: I am going to anger a lot of folks on here, but I have mixed feelings about the indictment  (Read 1503 times)
Matty
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« on: March 18, 2023, 12:00:37 PM »

I personally am on the fence.

On the one hand, nobody is above the law.

on the other hand, there is this thing called prudence. This charge will be very hard to prove, and if trump is ultimately acquitted, it would be perhaps the worst thing to happen to the country in a long time. Is it worth the risk of pouring gasoline on our national fire for what amounts to (at best) a misdemeanor/minor felony?

To be clear, trump should face criminal exposure for jan 6th and the georgia stuff.

I just don't know if it is an example of prudence and wisdom to go forward with the stormy daniels stuff.

I am curious if anyone else shares my ambivalence?

I just don't see this ending well. The menace is already on truth social calling for protest. Somebody is going to get hurt.
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John Dule
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2023, 12:17:12 PM »

I completely agree. This isn't an Al Capone situation where you can get him on something like tax fraud. It's all or nothing.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2023, 12:31:03 PM »

Trump should not be allowed to violate the law without consequences by using threats of violence to avoid prosecution. Should he have been allowed to remain President just to stop the attack on the Capitol? No.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2023, 12:56:01 PM »

I think that the prosecutors understand this, and would not push for an indictment unless they were positive they had him dead-to-rights.
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emailking
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2023, 01:05:37 PM »

I have mixed feelings about this too. We'll see what they have I guess. We don't know what the 2nd crime is the DA will allege. They need a 2nd crime, concealed by then fraudulently reported business expense, to make this a felony.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2023, 01:06:35 PM »

While I am worried that this is the worst time to bring forward the weakest of the pending indictments, he is not above the law, and should not be allowed to escape consequences (again) just because it is not the "ideal" charge.

So yes, mixed feelings.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2023, 01:25:02 PM »

Yeah, I really wish Bragg had held his powder for Garland and Smith to conclude their investigation.
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I Will Not Be Wrong
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 01:44:57 PM »

I have mixed feelings about this too. We'll see what they have I guess. We don't know what the 2nd crime is the DA will allege. They need a 2nd crime, concealed by then fraudulently reported business expense, to make this a felony.

Wait, there is another potential crime of his being investigated?
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emailking
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2023, 01:56:44 PM »

I have mixed feelings about this too. We'll see what they have I guess. We don't know what the 2nd crime is the DA will allege. They need a 2nd crime, concealed by then fraudulently reported business expense, to make this a felony.

Wait, there is another potential crime of his being investigated?

We know he's investigating Trump reporting the hush money as a business expense, which it's not, so assuming he knew that (he did) it's a misdemeanor. But all the legal experts think Bragg would not bring just that unless it can be elevated to a felony. The crime can be elevated to a felony if it was meant to conceal another crime. But we don't know what that is. Some have speculated it could a federal campaign finance crime, and there's some precedent for that in NY. Or it could be some other crime we don't know about.

He also has a larger investigation into Trump's activities in the Trump Organization, things like tax fraud, bank fraud, etc. But the indictment next week likely won't be related to that.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2023, 02:24:59 PM »

I just don't want to start the cycle of prosecuting former presidents for non-violent crime.   Expect every former president to be prosecuted by an ambitious blue/red state DA going forward if this sticks.
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Pericles
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2023, 02:28:41 PM »

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2023, 03:01:32 PM »

I understand the OP's point, but have a different view. If there's enough evidence, an indictment should happen. If during a trial guilt is proven beyond any reasonable doubt, the person in question should be convicted under law. Whether it's a former or current president or just the craftsman John Smith from next door is irrelevant. Equal justice under the law. You can't let someone off the hook just because they have a certain public following. Politicians, sportpeople, musicians, actors etc. are bound to the same laws and rules than anyone else.

If they want to avoid prison or being sentenced to pay fees, just abide the laws. It's not that hard. A vast majority of people do, including government officials.
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Convicted Felon Donald Trump
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2023, 03:04:25 PM »

He broke the law.

Bottom line.
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MichaelRbn
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2023, 03:44:57 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.
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HillGoose
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2023, 03:48:07 PM »

idc im just glad somebody decided to stand up to the silver spoon pussy and deny him what he wants for once in his life
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Matty
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2023, 05:09:09 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.

Gerald ford sacrificed his re-election chances because he wanted to heal the country

There’s a reason he won a profile in courage award
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Trump is “America’s Hitler”
Mr. X
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2023, 05:12:20 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.

Gerald ford sacrificed his re-election chances because he wanted to heal the country

There’s a reason he won a profile in courage award

No, he did it because he was a partisan hack.  Pardoning Nixon was the single worst decision of Ford’s entire Presidency.  All due respect, but the idea that he “healed the country” by pardoning Nixon is a load of BS!
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Person Man
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2023, 05:15:53 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.

Gerald ford sacrificed his re-election chances because he wanted to heal the country

There’s a reason he won a profile in courage award

No, he did it because he was a partisan hack.  That was the single worst decision of his Presidency.  All due respect, but the idea that he “healed the country” by pardoning Nixon is a load of BS!

If anything, it’s effect on public confidence might be the root of the whole crumbling one day.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2023, 05:17:56 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.

Gerald ford sacrificed his re-election chances because he wanted to heal the country

There’s a reason he won a profile in courage award

No, he did it because he was a partisan hack.  Pardoning Nixon was the single worst decision of Ford’s entire Presidency.  All due respect, but the idea that he “healed the country” by pardoning Nixon is a load of BS!

Also the fact that Ted Kennedy later agreed with that BS narrative makes me roll my eyes. The man really hated Carter more than Nixon.
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Trump is “America’s Hitler”
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2023, 05:31:45 PM »

The “mixed feelings” people like Gerald Ford had in 1974 are in part the reason we’re in this situation today.

Gerald ford sacrificed his re-election chances because he wanted to heal the country

There’s a reason he won a profile in courage award

No, he did it because he was a partisan hack.  Pardoning Nixon was the single worst decision of Ford’s entire Presidency.  All due respect, but the idea that he “healed the country” by pardoning Nixon is a load of BS!

Also the fact that Ted Kennedy later agreed with that BS narrative makes me roll my eyes. The man really hated Carter more than Nixon.

I mean, Ted Kennedy got away with involuntary manslaughter just because of his last name, so I don’t know why anyone would look to him for moral leadership.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2023, 06:41:26 PM »

I believe in law and order and punishing criminals for their crimes, no matter who they are.
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Orwell
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2023, 06:43:55 PM »

I believe in law and order and punishing criminals for their crimes, no matter who they are.

So we should deport illegal immigrants, right?
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Mr. Matt
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2023, 07:14:59 PM »

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

See also the recently deceased Robert Blake, ironically enough a line from his show's theme.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2023, 07:17:30 PM »

I just don't want to start the cycle of prosecuting former presidents for non-violent crime.   Expect every former president to be prosecuted by an ambitious blue/red state DA going forward if this sticks.

Given that most of them have (probably) committed crimes, this would be a good thing. The prosecution of white collar crime must be normalised.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2023, 07:43:08 PM »

I just don't want to start the cycle of prosecuting former presidents for non-violent crime.   Expect every former president to be prosecuted by an ambitious blue/red state DA going forward if this sticks.

If I were the President of the United States and wanted to avoid going to jail, I would simply not commit a crime.
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