Gallup: Democrats sympathize with Palestinians more than Israels for the first time ever.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

As I said we have Jewish S Cardin, Feinstein, Murray, Wyden and Pritzker, Shapiro, Polis and hopefully Stein all Ds I certainly don't sympathize with Palestine a Palestinian killed RFK and set off Reagan Revolution Muslims are sympathetic towards Palestinian do you see protests of D's for Palestinian no you don't but Rev Barber is protesting an RH that is looking at Hunter laptop instead of development of a budget for the Debt Ceiling and controlling inflation

[Sic Semper Tyrannis]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

[Horus]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

Don't let this screed about THE YOUTH distract from the fact that MacArthur defended anti-Semitic abuse of Bernie Sanders.

Bernie isn't pro Israel so in MacArthur's eyes that wasn't really antisemitism.

[Beet]

Israel is basically a settler state enabled by British imperialism, and much of its early legitimacy derived from crimes committed against Jewish people not by Arabs, but by Europeans. That said, now that it has been established, it has a legitimate right to exist. We only ask that it return to the 1967 borders, or the 1993 Oslo Peace Process.

As for the Palestinians, the biggest mistake was Yasser Arafat walking away from the 2000 Camp David Accords. Clinton even locked the gates to prevent him from leaving while Madeleine Albright ran after him, but he still wouldn't make a deal. The Palestinians may never get a better offer than the one Ehud Barak was willing to put on the table, and that was the last real chance for peace in the last 20 years.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Even if the worst fears about Israel comes to pass , I will still support them because they will still be better than Palestine .

[Andrew Cuomo is a No Go]

Wow, who knew that being The Middle East's Only Democracy^TM would only go so far when Israel's government is dead set on destroying separation of powers, colonizing the West Bank, and killing any notion of secularism.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The fact that Israelis keep reelecting a corrupt authoritarian like Netanyahu was bound to have consequences.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

That is probably the perspective of most liberal Jews, sure.

The problem is that the western pro-Palestinian side is increasingly emboldened to cast the very creation of Israel as an irredeemable original sin that needs to be rectified in blood.

[Not Me, Us]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

That is probably the perspective of most liberal Jews, sure.

The problem is that the western pro-Palestinian side is increasingly emboldened to cast the very creation of Israel as an irredeemable original sin that needs to be rectified in blood.

Find me one mainstream Western source saying that. There is virtually nobody outside of some wackos in the Arab world who hold that position, and certainly no elected officials. A two-state solution means a two-state solution. I will agree that the current government of Palestine is not capable of running a functioning country right now, but the current Israeli government is run by psychopaths. Until Israel cleans up its act, it is not deserving of support from the west.

[Trump Is A Maoist]

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

That is probably the perspective of most liberal Jews, sure.

The problem is that the western pro-Palestinian side is increasingly emboldened to cast the very creation of Israel as an irredeemable original sin that needs to be rectified in blood.

Find me one mainstream Western source saying that. There is virtually nobody outside of some wackos in the Arab world who hold that position, and certainly no elected officials. A two-state solution means a two-state solution. I will agree that the current government of Palestine is not capable of running a functioning country right now, but the current Israeli government is run by psychopaths. Until Israel cleans up its act, it is not deserving of support from the west.

You're wasting your time. Ray's positions on Israeli-Palestinian topics and anti-semetism are hardened in cement. No amount of facts, evidence or reason will ever move him even one inch. I would love to be wrong about that, of course, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Sic Semper Tyrannis]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

That is probably the perspective of most liberal Jews, sure.

The problem is that the western pro-Palestinian side is increasingly emboldened to cast the very creation of Israel as an irredeemable original sin that needs to be rectified in blood.

I don't think most of them are that bad at the moment, but yeah. I think I've said something to this effect on atlas before, but the fact that Israel gets so much of the "mainstream" far lefts foreign policy focus and hate when so many other countries commit human rights abuses to a much greater degree than Israel(including fellow us ally saudi Arabia) is proof of the antisemitism that runs deep in many parts of the left. I generally dislike the mainstream far left for this and a host of other reasons.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

From basically 1940-2005 or so the Palestinians were seen worldwide as comic book villains whose main goal was to kidnap and murder as many Israeli children as possible and openly sympathized with the world's greatest villains, most notably the nazis.  Israel was invaded three times by allies of the Palestinians who openly boasted about how their goal was to kill all the Jews and finish what Hitler started.

At a certain point Israel's military and intelligence apparatus became so good that it became totally impractical to speak of a full-scale invasion of the country, and then they became really good at cracking down on Palestinian attacks on civilians.  So you don't really hear about school buses being blown up, or rockets launched into orphanages, or random people being kidnapped by terrorists supported by Palestine.

Alongside this, the part of Palestine that governs the West Bank reached a much more reasonable political state and was able to reach some level of diplomatic normalcy with Israel, such that there's no longer daily attacks.  The part of Palestine that governs the Gaza Strip is still a bunch of psychopaths who aspire to kill as many Jews as possible.  But they're so weak and pathetic at this point, compared to Israel, that people no longer see them as a real threat.

Thus, younger generations who don't remember a time before 2005 or so don't really have context for why Israel is such a police state to the Palestinians, or why the Gaza Strip is so sh-tty.  And this has been perfectly timed with the rise of the internet, where young people are absolutely smothered in propaganda and lies from Palestinians and their allies/sympathizers.  So it's not surprising that as time goes on, more and more young people will side with Palestine.

The real question is, the next time a group of Palestinian terrorists blows up an orphanage (and Hamas celebrates it on social media), will that be a watershed event that causes young people to switch back to supporting Israel?  Or are they so far gone that they'll just say Israel and the Jews deserve it?

You can oppose both blowing up children and Israeli settlements, etc. It's not that black and white.

That is probably the perspective of most liberal Jews, sure.

The problem is that the western pro-Palestinian side is increasingly emboldened to cast the very creation of Israel as an irredeemable original sin that needs to be rectified in blood.

I don't think most of them are that bad at the moment, but yeah. I think I've said something to this effect on atlas before, but the fact that Israel gets so much of the "mainstream" far lefts foreign policy focus and hate when so many other countries commit human rights abuses to a much greater degree than Israel(including fellow us ally saudi Arabia) is proof of the antisemitism that runs deep in many parts of the left. I generally dislike the mainstream far left for this and a host of other reasons.

Antisemitism is a factor, but it goes beyond this. The failure of Israel as a state (from a leftwing perspective) is a direct repudiation of the landback movement and similar racialist/sectarian subsects of the progressive left. Earlier forms of Zionism had strong left-wing undercurrents that some contemporary idpol activists would rather forget.

[Yoda]

Not really surprising when Israel keeps putting Netanyahu in power. It's sad that the relationship with Israel is no longer ironclad, but their leaders made the decision to openly ally themselves with donald trump and republicans, and attempt to influence our domestic politics. This is the entirely predictable backlash.

The line between American and Isreali domestic politics is, at this point, incredibly blurry.
The old Zionist consensus is, for the time being, dead.

Obviously, but promoting one candidate in an election while denigrating his opponent? Israel had not meddled in our elections directly before. It's a line that can't be uncrossed. Democrats are going to more and more view Israel as republican-aligned. And Israel's decision to not help Ukraine? That's not going to help. An utter betrayal of the US. After all the military aid we've given them, to turn their backs on Ukraine, and their Jewish President?? Simply outrageous. It's a long, long road for Israel if they ever want to gain the trust of the democratic party and a solid majority of America again.

The Israeli government has never much cared for Jews who don't want to move there. Thinking they'd support Ukraine just because Zelensky is of Jewish heritage is naive. If anything they view him as a bit of a traitor for not making aliyah.

Oh, I'm not saying I thought they'd support Ukraine solely b/c Zelensky is Jewish. I mainly thought - naively, as you said - that they, like the rest of the entire democratic Western world, would see the value, self-interest and necessity in helping defend a fledgling democracy from an autocratic, terrorist state. If one democracy falls to imperialism from an evil empire, all democracies everywhere are less safe, that kind of logic. Second to that being the incredible amount of weapons sales and military aid we have showered them with over decades, and it's literally insulting that the one time we asked them to help, they refused. Complete and total betrayal. It's probably a good thing I'm not and never will be Commander in Chief b/c I don't forget. The next time they asked for help dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran I'd probably tell them to pound sand. "We think getting involved would further escalate the situation and would risk leading to WWIII, sorry." Netanyahu is complete dog s*** and can go f*** himself.

[Yoda]

Not really surprising when Israel keeps putting Netanyahu in power. It's sad that the relationship with Israel is no longer ironclad, but their leaders made the decision to openly ally themselves with donald trump and republicans, and attempt to influence our domestic politics. This is the entirely predictable backlash.

The line between American and Isreali domestic politics is, at this point, incredibly blurry.
The old Zionist consensus is, for the time being, dead.

Obviously, but promoting one candidate in an election while denigrating his opponent? Israel had not meddled in our elections directly before. It's a line that can't be uncrossed. Democrats are going to more and more view Israel as republican-aligned. And Israel's decision to not help Ukraine? That's not going to help. An utter betrayal of the US. After all the military aid we've given them, to turn their backs on Ukraine, and their Jewish President?? Simply outrageous. It's a long, long road for Israel if they ever want to gain the trust of the democratic party and a solid majority of America again.

Bolded is absolutely disgusting. Nobody is obligated to provide foreign aid to anybody else, and trying to guilt/blackmail Israel into supporting a foreign conflict is insane entitlement. This is why politics shouldn’t be viewed like team sports.

Iranian weapons are now being fired into Europe (at Ukraine) because European and North American countries alienated Iran. European and North American support for Israel in its (considerably colder) war with Iran is one of the principal reasons for this alienation.

Israel denied support for Ukraine on the grounds that they did not want Russia to endanger their own security. This went beyond the issue of lethal military aid: they used export vetoes on Western-owned, Israeli-made weapons which were to be sent to Ukraine, and refused to supply ammunition that Ukraine had already paid for pre-war. They still expect Western countries to support them against Iran, in spite of the (now proven) risk to these countries' security which this causes.

Of course, they're not obligated to provide foreign aid to Ukraine. They are acting hypocritically, but they're doing so because there are no apparent ramifications for doing so. Most of the fault lies with Western governments for playing along.

Well said. The hypocrisy from Israel here is stunning, and disgusting.

[maclennanc2]

Not really surprising when Israel keeps putting Netanyahu in power. It's sad that the relationship with Israel is no longer ironclad, but their leaders made the decision to openly ally themselves with donald trump and republicans, and attempt to influence our domestic politics. This is the entirely predictable backlash.

The line between American and Isreali domestic politics is, at this point, incredibly blurry.
The old Zionist consensus is, for the time being, dead.

Obviously, but promoting one candidate in an election while denigrating his opponent? Israel had not meddled in our elections directly before. It's a line that can't be uncrossed. Democrats are going to more and more view Israel as republican-aligned. And Israel's decision to not help Ukraine? That's not going to help. An utter betrayal of the US. After all the military aid we've given them, to turn their backs on Ukraine, and their Jewish President?? Simply outrageous. It's a long, long road for Israel if they ever want to gain the trust of the democratic party and a solid majority of America again.

The Israeli government has never much cared for Jews who don't want to move there. Thinking they'd support Ukraine just because Zelensky is of Jewish heritage is naive. If anything they view him as a bit of a traitor for not making aliyah.

Oh, I'm not saying I thought they'd support Ukraine solely b/c Zelensky is Jewish. I mainly thought - naively, as you said - that they, like the rest of the entire democratic Western world, would see the value, self-interest and necessity in helping defend a fledgling democracy from an autocratic, terrorist state. If one democracy falls to imperialism from an evil empire, all democracies everywhere are less safe, that kind of logic. Second to that being the incredible amount of weapons sales and military aid we have showered them with over decades, and it's literally insulting that the one time we asked them to help, they refused. Complete and total betrayal. It's probably a good thing I'm not and never will be Commander in Chief b/c I don't forget. The next time they asked for help dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran I'd probably tell them to pound sand. "We think getting involved would further escalate the situation and would risk leading to WWIII, sorry." Netanyahu is complete dog s*** and can go f*** himself.

Not to play devil's advocate, but you do understand what kind of antisemitic backlash would occur in Russia if Israel were seen to openly side with Ukraine, right?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Not really surprising when Israel keeps putting Netanyahu in power. It's sad that the relationship with Israel is no longer ironclad, but their leaders made the decision to openly ally themselves with donald trump and republicans, and attempt to influence our domestic politics. This is the entirely predictable backlash.

The line between American and Isreali domestic politics is, at this point, incredibly blurry.
The old Zionist consensus is, for the time being, dead.

Obviously, but promoting one candidate in an election while denigrating his opponent? Israel had not meddled in our elections directly before. It's a line that can't be uncrossed. Democrats are going to more and more view Israel as republican-aligned. And Israel's decision to not help Ukraine? That's not going to help. An utter betrayal of the US. After all the military aid we've given them, to turn their backs on Ukraine, and their Jewish President?? Simply outrageous. It's a long, long road for Israel if they ever want to gain the trust of the democratic party and a solid majority of America again.

The Israeli government has never much cared for Jews who don't want to move there. Thinking they'd support Ukraine just because Zelensky is of Jewish heritage is naive. If anything they view him as a bit of a traitor for not making aliyah.

Oh, I'm not saying I thought they'd support Ukraine solely b/c Zelensky is Jewish. I mainly thought - naively, as you said - that they, like the rest of the entire democratic Western world, would see the value, self-interest and necessity in helping defend a fledgling democracy from an autocratic, terrorist state. If one democracy falls to imperialism from an evil empire, all democracies everywhere are less safe, that kind of logic. Second to that being the incredible amount of weapons sales and military aid we have showered them with over decades, and it's literally insulting that the one time we asked them to help, they refused. Complete and total betrayal. It's probably a good thing I'm not and never will be Commander in Chief b/c I don't forget. The next time they asked for help dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran I'd probably tell them to pound sand. "We think getting involved would further escalate the situation and would risk leading to WWIII, sorry." Netanyahu is complete dog s*** and can go f*** himself.

Not to play devil's advocate, but you do understand what kind of antisemitic backlash would occur in Russia if Israel were seen to openly side with Ukraine, right?

Bennett and Lapid were trying very hard to just keep their heads down for this exact reason (along with Putin's actual leverage on the Syrian border). Netanyahu is different and actively seems to want to cozy up to Putin, though.

[Adjective-Statement]

Surprising with the direction Democrats have taken in geopolitics for the last few years, but good to hear!

[Long Live The King!]

This is not such a big deal in my view. Public opinion on foreign policy issues tends to fluctuate a lot and extremism on both sides of the conflict hasn't helped the cause of neither Israelis nor Palestinians. The Arab-Israeli conflict suffers from too much history, too much religion, too much politics and it doesn't help that the issue is the subject of all sorts of monotonously predictable culture war takes and an incessant partisan football in the West.