I am increasingly anti-gun ownership EDIT: Changed my mind. Guns are fine, even if I won’t own them

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

I personally have no interest in owning a gun. I don’t see the utility outside of hunting in rural areas.

Two notes:

(1) Would not support confiscation. There need to be some measures to take illegal guns off the street before you can begin that conversation
(2) There can’t be a blanket policy concession by the GOP: a grand bargain needs to be made with the Dems coming to the table on related issues as well

Thoughts?

[doc gerritcole]

ive never understood enforcement on this matter, how do you 'confiscate' if ppl claim the guns are lost, what do you do if they fire on you when you come to take their guns, will you kill all who resist?

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

ive never understood enforcement on this matter, how do you 'confiscate' if ppl claim the guns are lost, what do you do if they fire on you when you come to take their guns, will you kill all who resist?

That’s Beto’s problem, not mine.

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

I totally agree and I'm glad you're coming to light on one of the very few issues we disagree on lol

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

Revisiting this, doesn’t make a ton of sense. I don’t like guns and would never own one, but this is too nanny state.

[Alben Barkley]

My thoughts?

FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!

[Mercenary]

I am anti gun ownership in that I think people shouldnt have them but I oppose the federal government having any say in it. I wouldnt oppose local governments banning sale of guns or something within their jurisdiction. Hard to really enforce possession though unless you go nationwide authoritarian.

[HillGoose]

ok well two questions then:

1. what will u do when the russkis and red chinese invade? u will not be able to recreate Red Dawn or COD, or even honor liberty by taking the final and greatest liberty of all.

2. what if there is a burglar home invader person break into ur house?

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

ok well two questions then:

1. what will u do when the russkis and red chinese invade? u will not be able to recreate Red Dawn or COD, or even honor liberty by taking the final and greatest liberty of all.

2. what if there is a burglar home invader person break into ur house?

(1) The only country invading the US is Mexico (and to a lesser degree Canada). We don’t need guns to stop them, just walls.
(2) Burglars can kill you with other means too. My mom’s uncle was stabbed to death in the 90s by an illegal immigrant.

[dead0man]

ok well two questions then:

1. what will u do when the russkis and red chinese invade? u will not be able to recreate Red Dawn or COD, or even honor liberty by taking the final and greatest liberty of all.

2. what if there is a burglar home invader person break into ur house?

(1) The only country invading the US is Mexico (and to a lesser degree Canada). We don’t need guns to stop them, just walls.
(2) Burglars can kill you with other means too. My mom’s uncle was stabbed to death in the 90s by an illegal immigrant.

maybe if mom's uncle had a gun...

[freepcrusher]

i'm pretty mixed on the issue. Like I find AR-15s to be tacky and in bad taste. At the same time, you hear about stories of kids in midcentury america bringing rifles to school for marksman class and there were never any problems with that. Maybe the bigger problem is that as many as a quarter of the population is mentally ill in some way.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

ok well two questions then:

1. what will u do when the russkis and red chinese invade? u will not be able to recreate Red Dawn or COD, or even honor liberty by taking the final and greatest liberty of all.

2. what if there is a burglar home invader person break into ur house?

(1) The only country invading the US is Mexico (and to a lesser degree Canada). We don’t need guns to stop them, just walls.
(2) Burglars can kill you with other means too. My mom’s uncle was stabbed to death in the 90s by an illegal immigrant.

maybe if mom's uncle had a gun...

He was a retired cop so I’m sure he had one. He was 70 at the time.

[Adjective-Statement]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

I’ve changed my mind since writing this thread, just don’t want to delete it. I won’t take a gun from anyone.

[Drop Billionaires, Not Bombs]

Capitalism and corrupt government have made me increasingly pro-gun ownership.

(inb4 "lol like anyone can defeat muh military industrial complex" uh well considering a lot of people in the military are pissed off with the status quo too, I wouldn't necessarily make assumptions if a civil war were to break out, which as I've said would never happen anyway)

[Libertas Vel Mors]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

[TheReckoning]

Countries with more strict laws with gun ownership/countries with a lot less guns tend to be a lot safer. Having a safe country is key to economic growth.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

3 New England states have laws allowing concealed carry without a license, Connecticut and Pennsylvania are shall issue license states, and support for gun ownership is extremely strong throughout rural New York. Northeastern states tend to have less ownership friendly laws than elsewhere in the country primarily because they are left of center, but they are still remarkably pro ownership in an international context, with a lot of evidence suggesting strong public support for ownership.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

3 New England states have laws allowing concealed carry without a license, Connecticut and Pennsylvania are shall issue license states, and support for gun ownership is extremely strong throughout rural New York. Northeastern states tend to have less ownership friendly laws than elsewhere in the country primarily because they are left of center, but they are still remarkably pro ownership in an international context, with a lot of evidence suggesting strong public support for ownership.

Relative to the South, Midwest, and West, the Northeast is anti-gun.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

3 New England states have laws allowing concealed carry without a license, Connecticut and Pennsylvania are shall issue license states, and support for gun ownership is extremely strong throughout rural New York. Northeastern states tend to have less ownership friendly laws than elsewhere in the country primarily because they are left of center, but they are still remarkably pro ownership in an international context, with a lot of evidence suggesting strong public support for ownership.

Relative to the South, Midwest, and West, the Northeast is anti-gun.

Okay. So what? The Northeast is still pro-gun in an international sense, as well as at least to some extent in an absolute sense. But even if it is anti-gun, that wouldn't change the substance of anything I've said here about your ideology (the Northeast is America's most leftist region) or the country/GOP/conservative movement all becoming more pro-gun.

[Drop Billionaires, Not Bombs]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

Not necessarily. It's the reason people with your mindset can vote (or in your case will vote when you turn 18 in five years) that groups like Redneck Revolt, the Socialist Rifle Association, and the John Brown Gun Club exist.

And lest we forget:

Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

3 New England states have laws allowing concealed carry without a license, Connecticut and Pennsylvania are shall issue license states, and support for gun ownership is extremely strong throughout rural New York. Northeastern states tend to have less ownership friendly laws than elsewhere in the country primarily because they are left of center, but they are still remarkably pro ownership in an international context, with a lot of evidence suggesting strong public support for ownership.

Relative to the South, Midwest, and West, the Northeast is anti-gun.

Okay. So what? The Northeast is still pro-gun in an international sense, as well as at least to some extent in an absolute sense. But even if it is anti-gun, that wouldn't change the substance of anything I've said here about your ideology (the Northeast is America's most leftist region) or the country/GOP/conservative movement all becoming more pro-gun.

How is someone who opposes future immigration, foreign aid, increases in personal or corporate taxes, and free trade leftist?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

Not necessarily. It's the reason people with your mindset can vote (or in your case will vote when you turn 18 in five years) that groups like Redneck Revolt, the Socialist Rifle Association, and the John Brown Gun Club exist.

And lest we forget:

Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

Huh? I'm pretty sure that my right to vote does not come from the actions of the Socialist Rifle Association or the John Brown Gun Club. And while, yes, Marx did say that the "workers" should not be disarmed because he thought that they would eventually revolt and be the key to overthrowing capitalism, he didn't favor gun ownership in general. Rather, he specifically advocated for armed groups of workers to use force to seize power:

Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

Marx believed that guns should be controlled by the state and utilized by workers as part of NKVD type proletarian guards. If anything, that's by a long shot more similar to the beliefs of gun control advocates (only state sponsored forces should have guns) than it is to the beliefs of gun control opponents (everyone should have guns to stop tyranny).

But even if we ignore the Marx point briefly, my point was that leftism and leftists in general support gun control, not that Marx in particular did. Even if Marx really did support gun ownership, most leftists certainly don't: supporting gun control is strongly correlated with high trust in government, a leftist view, as well as broader leftist viewpoints. BG-NYC favoring gun control (or disliking guns, at least) fits very well in his pattern of opposing economic liberty, calling for the GOP to strip religion from public life, and disregarding social conservatism.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

That's unfortunate. It's one of the only things the Republicans have going for them IMO, but your position is probably where they're headed and makes more sense with the conservative worldview anyway.

If anything, the evidence strongly suggests that Republicans (and the country writ large!) have been shifting to be more pro gun ownership for several decades now. BG's prior opposition/current dislike for guns should be read as yet a further indication of his broader leftism, rather than anything to do with the GOP/conservative movement.

The northeast is generally anti-gun.

3 New England states have laws allowing concealed carry without a license, Connecticut and Pennsylvania are shall issue license states, and support for gun ownership is extremely strong throughout rural New York. Northeastern states tend to have less ownership friendly laws than elsewhere in the country primarily because they are left of center, but they are still remarkably pro ownership in an international context, with a lot of evidence suggesting strong public support for ownership.

Relative to the South, Midwest, and West, the Northeast is anti-gun.

Okay. So what? The Northeast is still pro-gun in an international sense, as well as at least to some extent in an absolute sense. But even if it is anti-gun, that wouldn't change the substance of anything I've said here about your ideology (the Northeast is America's most leftist region) or the country/GOP/conservative movement all becoming more pro-gun.

How is someone who opposes future immigration, foreign aid, increases in personal or corporate taxes, and free trade leftist?

Two of those views (opposing future immigration and free trade) are not really right wing beliefs: free trade is something that most Republicans support but that many conservatives have historically found themselves on either side of. Opposing all future immigration is not really a belief with any precedent in American history: it's not right wing or left wing so much as a European import, but if it were to have any political comparison being concerned about the economic effects of immigration is much more associated with the left than the the right in the US. Otherwise, opposing foreign aid and increased taxes is good, although primarily reflective of your broader ideological idiosyncrasy, but doesn't negate your broader support for leftist positions on guns, religion, the economy excluding those specific topics,  and the role of government.