What Liberals Don't Understand About MAGA: "We Don't Like Him Either"

[Alben Barkley]

Is this true?

Does it explain how the MAGA crowd is OK with the proof Fox hates Trump and was lying to them the whole time?

Is the whole point not really a worship of Trump but seeing him as some kind of "warrior" shield protecting them?

Basically, do conservatives see Trump like this meme?

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is the core of the issue and this is why DeSantis is rising cause he actually wants to change the institutions back to how they were prior to Obama

Like you hear from Atlas Dems and so many Dems say that , its the Republicans and not the Democrats who push social/cultural issues. What they don't understand is the reason for that is nearly every single institution in this nation is now on the side with the cultural left and is pushing hard on that front so the fact is the Democrats to talk about it cause those institutions are doing their job for them. The Right has to speak up on the other hand given how many institutions in the country are blatantly against them on these issues which is why is why the Republicans have to push these issues more than Democrats.

Since these institutions are doing the work for the Dems by proxy, that has also resulted in the Democrats being justifiably blamed by the public for what they are doing. You can put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening but if you really want to stop being tied to them, the Democrats can do something similar to what Bill Clinton did with the Sister Souljah moment and outright condemn what these institutions are doing on social and cultural issues.

This also gets to why Trump is so popular with the GOP base and that is due to how many institutions are so blatantly against the right at this point, so its no surprise that so many conservative voters don't mind a politician who wants to tear them down. So when Trump behaves the way he does toward them, they not only dont like it but they actively root for him to behave more like that cause he is expressing towards them exactly what they are feeling and that is why he is so popular with the base.  . If these institutions still had acted in a neutral way on these cultural issues then Trump wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as he is and may not have even risen to begin with.

 It is absolutely frustrating as someone who doesn't like Trump and as someone who believes that we need to have strong institutions that they keep acting like this. On the other hand, it is easier to denigrate over 40% of the nation as being part of a cult than it is to take responsibility for their own problems and this goes for the politicians too.

[Alben Barkley]

This is the core of the issue and this is why DeSantis is rising cause he actually wants to change the institutions back to how they were prior to Obama

Like you hear from Atlas Dems and so many Dems say that , its the Republicans and not the Democrats who push social/cultural issues. What they don't understand is the reason for that is nearly every single institution in this nation is now on the side with the cultural left and is pushing hard on that front so the fact is the Democrats to talk about it cause those institutions are doing their job for them. The Right has to speak up on the other hand given how many institutions in the country are blatantly against them on these issues which is why is why the Republicans have to push these issues more than Democrats.

Since these institutions are doing the work for the Dems by proxy, that has also resulted in the Democrats being justifiably blamed by the public for what they are doing. You can put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening but if you really want to stop being tied to them, the Democrats can do something similar to what Bill Clinton did with the Sister Souljah moment and outright condemn what these institutions are doing on social and cultural issues.

This also gets to why Trump is so popular with the GOP base and that is due to how many institutions are so blatantly against the right at this point, so its no surprise that so many conservative voters don't mind a politician who wants to tear them down. So when Trump behaves the way he does toward them, they not only dont like it but they actively root for him to behave more like that cause he is expressing towards them exactly what they are feeling and that is why he is so popular with the base.  . If these institutions still had acted in a neutral way on these cultural issues then Trump wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as he is and may not have even risen to begin with.

 It is absolutely frustrating as someone who doesn't like Trump and as someone who believes that we need to have strong institutions that they keep acting like this. On the other hand, it is easier to denigrate over 40% of the nation as being part of a cult than it is to take responsibility for their own problems and this goes for the politicians too.

I don't think it proves that at all though. I think, whether conservatives personally like him or not, the perceived security blanket of the "warrior" shield of Trump, is something that can't be matched by DeSantis. I'm with Maher in this clip. The tribute band can never overtake the real thing. DeSantis has zero charisma, Trump has high charisma, at least when it comes to the conservative base. That might make all the difference.

Also as I asked you before and you never responded to: How do you deal with the fact that the South now almost literally WORSHIPS Trump? That region was swept by Trump as it was in 2016. It will be swept by him again in 2024, barring some miracle pulled off by DeSantis, given the fact that the region now arguably worships Trump more than Jesus, especially compared to 2016. I say this as someone who actually lives here!

DeSantis and you and all his supporters seem to be banking on Republican voters logically recognizing that Trump lost the 2020 election and is highly likely to lose again, so voting for an alternative is your best bet to take down Biden.

This fantasy will be utterly destroyed the moment DeSantis implies in a debate that Trump lost in 2020 and is met with resounding boos from the crowd.

You don't even know your own base anymore!

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is the core of the issue and this is why DeSantis is rising cause he actually wants to change the institutions back to how they were prior to Obama

Like you hear from Atlas Dems and so many Dems say that , its the Republicans and not the Democrats who push social/cultural issues. What they don't understand is the reason for that is nearly every single institution in this nation is now on the side with the cultural left and is pushing hard on that front so the fact is the Democrats to talk about it cause those institutions are doing their job for them. The Right has to speak up on the other hand given how many institutions in the country are blatantly against them on these issues which is why is why the Republicans have to push these issues more than Democrats.

Since these institutions are doing the work for the Dems by proxy, that has also resulted in the Democrats being justifiably blamed by the public for what they are doing. You can put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening but if you really want to stop being tied to them, the Democrats can do something similar to what Bill Clinton did with the Sister Souljah moment and outright condemn what these institutions are doing on social and cultural issues.

This also gets to why Trump is so popular with the GOP base and that is due to how many institutions are so blatantly against the right at this point, so its no surprise that so many conservative voters don't mind a politician who wants to tear them down. So when Trump behaves the way he does toward them, they not only dont like it but they actively root for him to behave more like that cause he is expressing towards them exactly what they are feeling and that is why he is so popular with the base.  . If these institutions still had acted in a neutral way on these cultural issues then Trump wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as he is and may not have even risen to begin with.

 It is absolutely frustrating as someone who doesn't like Trump and as someone who believes that we need to have strong institutions that they keep acting like this. On the other hand, it is easier to denigrate over 40% of the nation as being part of a cult than it is to take responsibility for their own problems and this goes for the politicians too.

I don't think it proves that at all though. I think, whether conservatives personally like him or not, the perceived security blanket of the "warrior" shield of Trump, is something that can't be matched by DeSantis. I'm with Maher in this clip. The tribute band can never overtake the real thing. DeSantis has zero charisma, Trump has high charisma, at least when it comes to the conservative base. That might make all the difference.

Also as I asked you before and you never responded to: How do you deal with the fact that the South now almost literally WORSHIPS Trump? That region was swept by Trump as it was in 2016. It will be swept by him again in 2024, barring some miracle pulled off by DeSantis, given the fact that the region now arguably worships Trump more than Jesus, especially compared to 2016. I say this as someone who actually lives here!

DeSantis and you and all his supporters seem to be banking on Republican voters logically recognizing that Trump lost the 2020 election and is highly likely to lose again, so voting for an alternative is your best bet to take down Biden.

This fantasy will be utterly destroyed the moment DeSantis implies in a debate that Trump lost in 2020 and is met with resounding boos from the crowd.

You don't even know your own base anymore!

Well even in state polls, Trump does worse in the South than he does in the North East. If Trump wins the nomination it will be due to dominating the North like he did in 2016. Trump's southern wins in 2016 were not enough as he was not getting the delegated he needed from those contests but then when the North East came around, he completely dominated in them.

Trump's base is the North East and Midwest Republican not Southerner and 2022 shows that his influence was actually least in GOP primaries in the south.

[Burke Bro]

I remember when this ad came out. It didn’t work. Can DeSantis really claim to be a martyr like Trump when he has no real wounds to speak of? Has Desantis suffered two impeachments from a democratic congress and relentless attacks from the media? Has DeSantis suffered from a “stolen election”? I think the OP actually makes a good point here. Martyrdom and retribution over good governance is not a particularly healthy choice for a democracy, but it is certainly what I would expect a “Christian nationalist” party to choose.

[BlueSwan]

There is definitely a large segment of the GOP who cares mostly about owning the libs. Some of them might realize that Trump is a deeply flawed person and isn't even a "real conservative", but since nobody triggers the libs like Trump, they love him for it. In that sense, all of the Trump scandals are a feature, not a bug. These people are OK with Fox actually hating Trump behind the scenes.

But there is also a segment of the GOP who worships Trump in a way that no politician in modern western civilization has ever been worshippped before. They will claim to your face that Trump has never lied to them. They see Trump as the second coming of christ. Most of them have already abandoned Fox for Newsmax or watches Fox selectively. Most of these people probably won't even hear about the Dominion trial or will dismiss the allegations against Tucker et al as fake news.

Ron DeSantis might appeal to the former crowd given his ability to trigger the libs, but I don't think he will ever come close to Trump with the latter crowd. And I believe that it is in the latter crowd we find the true source of Trumps strength. These are the people who will crucify any naysayers in their own ranks. These are the people who didn't use to vote, won't vote in midterms, but will walk over burning coal to vote if Trump is on the ticket. These are the voters who will hate DeSantis if Trump tells them to.

[Wrong about 2024 Ghost]

Trump is a symptom, Republicans are the problem; so long as the end goal of the Republican Party is to be terrible human beings, I don't care whether they like Trump or not -they are all headed the same terrible direction, and that is what makes them evil.

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

There is definitely a large segment of the GOP who cares mostly about owning the libs. Some of them might realize that Trump is a deeply flawed person and isn't even a "real conservative", but since nobody triggers the libs like Trump, they love him for it. In that sense, all of the Trump scandals are a feature, not a bug. These people are OK with Fox actually hating Trump behind the scenes.

But there is also a segment of the GOP who worships Trump in a way that no politician in modern western civilization has ever been worshippped before. They will claim to your face that Trump has never lied to them. They see Trump as the second coming of christ. Most of them have already abandoned Fox for Newsmax or watches Fox selectively. Most of these people probably won't even hear about the Dominion trial or will dismiss the allegations against Tucker et al as fake news.

Ron DeSantis might appeal to the former crowd given his ability to trigger the libs, but I don't think he will ever come close to Trump with the latter crowd. And I believe that it is in the latter crowd we find the true source of Trumps strength. These are the people who will crucify any naysayers in their own ranks. These are the people who didn't use to vote, won't vote in midterms, but will walk over burning coal to vote if Trump is on the ticket. These are the voters who will hate DeSantis if Trump tells them to.

Good post.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

You don't even know your own base anymore!

In fairness, OSR has never been part of the GOP base. He is the one repeatedly trying to force Romney down their throats for well over a decade.

[DaleCooper]

Sure, OSR is not a reflection of the GOP base at all, but he really has hit the nail on the head as far as American institutions (especially cultural institutions) becoming progressive echo chambers and that radicalizing a lot of people. I really think we could've been spared a lot of the last 10 years of BS if Hollywood had just allowed conservatives to play along, or if TV would use affirmative action to get some "Real America" representation in shows that are actually worth watching. As infuriating as you might think it is to pander to people, surely that'd be a better alternative than the conservatives inventing an alternate reality to live in with their own entertainment that appeals exclusively to all of their worst qualities.

[coloradocowboi]

Sure, OSR is not a reflection of the GOP base at all, but he really has hit the nail on the head as far as American institutions (especially cultural institutions) becoming progressive echo chambers and that radicalizing a lot of people. I really think we could've been spared a lot of the last 10 years of BS if Hollywood had just allowed conservatives to play along, or if TV would use affirmative action to get some "Real America" representation in shows that are actually worth watching. As infuriating as you might think it is to pander to people, surely that'd be a better alternative than the conservatives inventing an alternate reality to live in with their own entertainment that appeals exclusively to all of their worst qualities.

I don't think any of this "echo chambers" stuff is true when it comes to mass media. It's just the case that when you are a member and beneficiary of a monoculture, the presence of anything other than what you have been exposed to feels like progressive values being "shoved down your throat." Are facts about ecology, climate change, and the environment "shoved down people's throats" if they are empirically true and the scientific consensus?

This is the real problem: Americans who have historically been marginalized - LGBTQ people, feminists, Black and indigenous people, leftists, to name a few - are actually getting equal airtime and two segments of the population don't like it, elitist conservatives and traditionalists, because they feel that any information they receive contradictory or contrary to any of the things they believe is an assault on their liberty. Furthermore, the Baby Boomers who comprise both of these cohorts are among the most spoiled people to have ever lived economically and lived in our country at a time when it was 90% white. They are not adapted to change and view this as the media industry's fault because tbch their only actual exposure to changing society is mostly through social media and the television. They are also targeted by a new, conservative media industry that benefits from from them hating legacy media.

But empirically you and all other conservatives are wrong. Multiple content analyses have found that conservative content on social media is more visible per capita, relevant to the share of the population that is conservative. Multiple analyses of political media coverage have found that Bernie Sanders was treated just as unfairly by the media as Trump. Most experts would tell you media has a liberal as in centrist, pro-establishment bias but nobody has ever found that media is "pro-woke." In fact most scholarship still finds media coverage deficient and lacking for American minorities.

Conservatives need to believe that they are the silent majority, but look at the last few elections. Republicans generally only win when turnout is low. It's not a silent majority but an extremely loud minority these days. And that's at the center of a death spiral that proceeds Trump. You can't run a political movement in a moment defined by increased diversification by waging a war against diversity. But it's also advantageous to if your two core constituencies are anti-change, anti-diversity.

I don't think it will work out for Republicans or the country. It's also truly insane to me as a gay person who has been "forced" to watch heterosexual romances and culture on TV that anybody would make their politics about something like that. Turn the TV off, and for the love of God do consider voting for the only people who will protect your Medicare and social security lol

[Lief 🗽]

Of course they love Trump. He gives them permission to be their truest selves (ignorant, bigoted, cruel, misogynistic, greedy). He is the pure distilled form of right-wing thought.

[Ferguson97]

You don't even know your own base anymore!

In fairness, OSR has never been part of the GOP base. He is the one repeatedly trying to force Romney down their throats for well over a decade.

Honestly, I think OSR is a perfect representation of the GOP base. Started out loving Mitt Romney, now he's completely obsessed with culture war issues.

[DaleCooper]

Sure, OSR is not a reflection of the GOP base at all, but he really has hit the nail on the head as far as American institutions (especially cultural institutions) becoming progressive echo chambers and that radicalizing a lot of people. I really think we could've been spared a lot of the last 10 years of BS if Hollywood had just allowed conservatives to play along, or if TV would use affirmative action to get some "Real America" representation in shows that are actually worth watching. As infuriating as you might think it is to pander to people, surely that'd be a better alternative than the conservatives inventing an alternate reality to live in with their own entertainment that appeals exclusively to all of their worst qualities.

I don't think any of this "echo chambers" stuff is true when it comes to mass media. It's just the case that when you are a member and beneficiary of a monoculture, the presence of anything other than what you have been exposed to feels like progressive values being "shoved down your throat." Are facts about ecology, climate change, and the environment "shoved down people's throats" if they are empirically true and the scientific consensus?

This is the real problem: Americans who have historically been marginalized - LGBTQ people, feminists, Black and indigenous people, leftists, to name a few - are actually getting equal airtime and two segments of the population don't like it, elitist conservatives and traditionalists, because they feel that any information they receive contradictory or contrary to any of the things they believe is an assault on their liberty. Furthermore, the Baby Boomers who comprise both of these cohorts are among the most spoiled people to have ever lived economically and lived in our country at a time when it was 90% white. They are not adapted to change and view this as the media industry's fault because tbch their only actual exposure to changing society is mostly through social media and the television. They are also targeted by a new, conservative media industry that benefits from from them hating legacy media.

But empirically you and all other conservatives are wrong. Multiple content analyses have found that conservative content on social media is more visible per capita, relevant to the share of the population that is conservative. Multiple analyses of political media coverage have found that Bernie Sanders was treated just as unfairly by the media as Trump. Most experts would tell you media has a liberal as in centrist, pro-establishment bias but nobody has ever found that media is "pro-woke." In fact most scholarship still finds media coverage deficient and lacking for American minorities.

Conservatives need to believe that they are the silent majority, but look at the last few elections. Republicans generally only win when turnout is low. It's not a silent majority but an extremely loud minority these days. And that's at the center of a death spiral that proceeds Trump. You can't run a political movement in a moment defined by increased diversification by waging a war against diversity. But it's also advantageous to if your two core constituencies are anti-change, anti-diversity.

I don't think it will work out for Republicans or the country. It's also truly insane to me as a gay person who has been "forced" to watch heterosexual romances and culture on TV that anybody would make their politics about something like that. Turn the TV off, and for the love of God do consider voting for the only people who will protect your Medicare and social security lol

I don't know what to tell you other than that you've bought into the BS. Mainstream American entertainment is creating next to nothing that appeals to right-of-center audiences, or even audiences of mixed political views. And I'm not talking about the social media brain damage machine, I'm talking about TV and movies and other escapist entertainment.

If you talk to a lot of these conservatives, all they really care about is television and entertainment. A lot of their cultural grievances revolve around the media, they worship celebrities, they want celebrity politicians. I'm not sympathetic to it, but it's pretty clear that that's the case. Also, I find it funny that people like you will almost certainly argue that a lack of representation is terrible thing for marginalized peoples or whatever, but apparently it isn't bad for non-marginalized people? If you're in middle America or you're white trash, there is nothing relatable of quality on tv for you to watch; nothing that reflects your "lived experience" and nothing that reflects a respectable outlook on life that you might be able to relate to. I don't think it's a total coincidence that our political polarization got more dramatic as the entertainment industry became more out of touch. I can't prove any of this, obviously, but I strongly suspect that if we had an American entertainment industry that actually allowed a little bit of diversity to cater to the 47% of people that tend to vote conservative, then we might have prevented some of this social isolation and victimhood radicalization crap that they've put themselves through.

[OSR stands with Israel]

You don't even know your own base anymore!

In fairness, OSR has never been part of the GOP base. He is the one repeatedly trying to force Romney down their throats for well over a decade.

Honestly, I think OSR is a perfect representation of the GOP base. Started out loving Mitt Romney, now he's completely obsessed with culture war issues.

Completely obsessed, lol no . There are very few culture war issues i actually care about . Parental rights in education is one of them .

For example on abortion, i dislike both sides stances on it so really all I hope for is Republicans pass laws that would most maximize their electoral chances in both a primary and a general

[Drop Billionaires, Not Bombs]

I remember when this ad came out. It didn’t work. Can DeSantis really claim to be a martyr like Trump when he has no real wounds to speak of? Has Desantis suffered two impeachments from a democratic congress and relentless attacks from the media? Has DeSantis suffered from a “stolen election”? I think the OP actually makes a good point here. Martyrdom and retribution over good governance is not a particularly healthy choice for a democracy, but it is certainly what I would expect a “Christian nationalist” party to choose.

Very creepy ad bordering on sacrelige. But enough Republican voters respond to this type of messaging that they'd eat this up, if Trump weren't already in the picture. Having a literal religious following in your name is pretty hard to beat as a candidate, which is why I'm in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode as far as DeSantis is concerned.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Kos gave as good an explanation as anyone after the 2020 election.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/16/1996146/-Trump-has-a-legit-superpower-and-it-s-his-hidden-deplorables


The hidden deplorables aren’t Republican. They aren’t even conservative. They’re apolitical, otherwise ignoring politics, because their lives legitimately suck. They live in meth country, with dim job prospects (in fact, those two factors are highly correlated). Institutions have failed them—corporations abandoned them for cheaper labor overseas, government seems and feels distant, and it’s certainly not improving their lives. Cities feel like walled gardens—unattainable, unaffordable, yet that’s where all the jobs are, the culture, the action. These deplorables have been left behind. So their attitude? “F**k them all.”

Trump shows up in 2016 and gives them hope for change, saying the quiet part out loud—that their lives suck not because of their own choices and that of those decamped corporations, but because all that sweet, sweet government money is going to “illegals” and “thugs” in those cities. He puts uppity Black and brown people and women in their place. He offers them hope that, if he can’t improve their lives, that at least he’ll hurt all those others.

    “I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” she said of Mr. Trump. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”

Their lives suck, but Trump was supposed to be bringing everyone else down to their level. That’s why all that nonsense about “economic uncertainty” was such bullsh**t. None of these people ever thought Trump would bring back the factories, paying good middle-class wages. They can do the same math that the corporations have. But it would all be worth it if Trump would just hurt the people he needed to be hurt.

And then he did. He put brown kids in cages. He sent federal troops against the Black Lives Matter “mobs.” He nominated judges hostile to a woman’s right to have agency over her body.

And above else? He destroyed. He tore sh**t down. Norms, traditions, entire agencies.

So 2020 rolled around, and Trump no longer offered hope of economic revival in these economically devastated meth counties. Instead, he was the personification of their rage made real, in the Oval Office itself.