Trump Added More to the National Debt Than Obama and Bush.
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May 31, 2023, 11:12:20 AM
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  Trump Added More to the National Debt Than Obama and Bush.
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Author Topic: Trump Added More to the National Debt Than Obama and Bush.  (Read 2048 times)
įįRuauu2
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« on: March 10, 2023, 08:48:07 AM »

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-added-more-to-the-national-debt-than-obama-and-bush
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Sir Mohamed 🇺🇸 🇺🇦
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2023, 10:03:46 AM »

Can't be true, I was told the GOP the fiscally conservative party and Trump was going negotiate the national debt away.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2023, 11:11:01 AM »

Not by %

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Trump added 33.1% to the debt in his 4 years while Obama added 74% which means Obamaís average per year increase is higher than Trumpís too .

Keep in mind a huge chunk of Trumpís debt came from 2020 when COVID shut down the economy for months then significantly restricted it for a while afterwards so the government responded by trying to keep our economy afloat during that period with the passage of the cares act .



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įįRuauu2
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2023, 11:28:40 AM »

Not by %

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Trump added 33.1% to the debt in his 4 years while Obama added 74% which means Obamaís average per year increase is higher than Trumpís too .

Keep in mind a huge chunk of Trumpís debt came from 2020 when COVID shut down the economy for months then significantly restricted it for a while afterwards so the government responded by trying to keep our economy afloat during that period with the passage of the cares act .

Who was POTUS when the first person in the US died from Covid?

This video proves that he called it a hoax and he said "we've lost nobody" (which was true at the time):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE



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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2023, 01:45:22 PM »

Remember those moronic Trump tax cuts? ffs
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President Johnson
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2023, 02:11:50 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2023, 02:57:22 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.

I mean a huge amount of Trumpís debt came from the cares act and the fact we did an unprecedented stimulus . Even despite that his overall year to year average increase in debt was less than Obamaís so you have to take COVID into consideration.

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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2023, 03:38:37 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.

I mean a huge amount of Trumpís debt came from the cares act and the fact we did an unprecedented stimulus . Even despite that his overall year to year average increase in debt was less than Obamaís so you have to take COVID into consideration.

This is ridiculous. The Trump Administration deficit in 2019, before Covid, was right around $1 trillion. I think it's a valid criticism of the Obama Administration, and the Biden Administration, that they haven't reduced the deficit enough, but Obama's 2016 deficit was less than half of Trump's 2019 deficit, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

You make some good points on economics, but if you are trying to deny that Republicans only pretend to care about the deficit/debt when a Democrat is President, you are lost.

To put it technically, Republicans are Neo Keynesians when a Republican is President but pretend to be Monetarists when a Democrat is President.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2023, 03:45:07 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.

I mean a huge amount of Trumpís debt came from the cares act and the fact we did an unprecedented stimulus . Even despite that his overall year to year average increase in debt was less than Obamaís so you have to take COVID into consideration.

This is ridiculous. The Trump Administration deficit in 2019, before Covid, was right around $1 trillion. I think it's a valid criticism of the Obama Administration, and the Biden Administration, that they haven't reduced the deficit enough, but Obama's 2016 deficit was less than half of Trump's 2019 deficit, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

You make some good points on economics, but if you are trying to deny that Republicans only pretend to care about the deficit/debt when a Democrat is President, you are lost.

To put it technically, Republicans are Neo Keynesians when a Republican is President but pretend to be Monetarists when a Democrat is President.

I am not saying the GOP is good in it (they arenít) , just that the numbers arenít as bad as they seem due to COVID. Look at the link I shared .


I consider George W Bush to be the worst president on this issue in modern times as he inherited a surplus , a great economy, and the US as a clear hegemon with no other rival and despite all of that he still ended up doubling the debt .


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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2023, 03:54:28 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.

I mean a huge amount of Trumpís debt came from the cares act and the fact we did an unprecedented stimulus . Even despite that his overall year to year average increase in debt was less than Obamaís so you have to take COVID into consideration.

This is ridiculous. The Trump Administration deficit in 2019, before Covid, was right around $1 trillion. I think it's a valid criticism of the Obama Administration, and the Biden Administration, that they haven't reduced the deficit enough, but Obama's 2016 deficit was less than half of Trump's 2019 deficit, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

You make some good points on economics, but if you are trying to deny that Republicans only pretend to care about the deficit/debt when a Democrat is President, you are lost.

To put it technically, Republicans are Neo Keynesians when a Republican is President but pretend to be Monetarists when a Democrat is President.

I am not saying the GOP is good in it (they arenít) , just that the numbers arenít as bad as they seem due to COVID. Look at the link I shared .


I consider George W Bush to be the worst president on this issue in modern times as he inherited a surplus , a great economy, and the US as a clear hegemon with no other rival and despite all of that he still ended up doubling the debt .

That's fine, but your math is wrong though. The 33.1% increase under Trump is from a higher base than Obama's 74% increase (over 8 years.) That website, which is showing the net debt, I believe, so that it adds, I believe, increases in the interest on the debt payments,  shows that the average of Trump's deficits is higher than the average of Obama's deficits. Trump had to deal with Covid in his final year, but Obama had to deal with the fallout from the Great Recession. The Obama Administration's final deficit was, I believe, $465 billion, whereas the Trump Administration's, pre Covid, was $996 billion, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

Sure, this is a headline that doesn't take Covid into account, but a $1 trillion deficit is astounding, and was about 5% of GDP. At worst economists say that a deficit to GDP ratio is not sustainable if above 3%. Of course, the United States is protected by being the World Reserve Currency/Petrodollar, but there is no mistaking that if this were not the case, or if the United States loses this status (as slowly seems to be happening) that the United States would likely be seeking loans from the IMF.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2023, 04:21:29 PM »

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but over the last 40+ years, only "tax and spend" liberals in the White House lowered the deficit, while "fiscally responsible" Republican presidents increased the debt by insane numbers. That's because they funded needless wars via credit card and gave away trillions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich and corporations. Democratic presidents aim just to spend money they actually have, and a lot of that goes into investments that make sure the economy keeps working.

I mean a huge amount of Trumpís debt came from the cares act and the fact we did an unprecedented stimulus . Even despite that his overall year to year average increase in debt was less than Obamaís so you have to take COVID into consideration.

This is ridiculous. The Trump Administration deficit in 2019, before Covid, was right around $1 trillion. I think it's a valid criticism of the Obama Administration, and the Biden Administration, that they haven't reduced the deficit enough, but Obama's 2016 deficit was less than half of Trump's 2019 deficit, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

You make some good points on economics, but if you are trying to deny that Republicans only pretend to care about the deficit/debt when a Democrat is President, you are lost.

To put it technically, Republicans are Neo Keynesians when a Republican is President but pretend to be Monetarists when a Democrat is President.

I am not saying the GOP is good in it (they arenít) , just that the numbers arenít as bad as they seem due to COVID. Look at the link I shared .


I consider George W Bush to be the worst president on this issue in modern times as he inherited a surplus , a great economy, and the US as a clear hegemon with no other rival and despite all of that he still ended up doubling the debt .

That's fine, but your math is wrong though. The 33.1% increase under Trump is from a higher base than Obama's 74% increase (over 8 years.) That website, which is showing the net debt, I believe, so that it adds, I believe, increases in the interest on the debt payments,  shows that the average of Trump's deficits is higher than the average of Obama's deficits. Trump had to deal with Covid in his final year, but Obama had to deal with the fallout from the Great Recession. The Obama Administration's final deficit was, I believe, $465 billion, whereas the Trump Administration's, pre Covid, was $996 billion, even though the economy was stronger in 2019 than in 2016.

Sure, this is a headline that doesn't take Covid into account, but a $1 trillion deficit is astounding, and was about 5% of GDP. At worst economists say that a deficit to GDP ratio is not sustainable if above 3%. Of course, the United States is protected by being the World Reserve Currency/Petrodollar, but there is no mistaking that if this were not the case, or if the United States loses this status (as slowly seems to be happening) that the United States would likely be seeking loans from the IMF.

I was talking about average % increase and not the raw amount . I also donít think Trumpís numbers were good either , just the vast increase seems higher than it was cause of COVID . I certainly donít think Obama also deserves the blame for much of his debt increase due to the fact he took office during the  Great Recession .

I think much of the debt we have I incurred since 2000  comes for these 4 reasons

1. The War in Iraq and the massive increases in the military budget since 9/11
2. The Great Recession
3. COVID
4. Interest payments on the debt
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BlahTheCanuckTory
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2023, 02:50:20 PM »

I am not a fan of Trump or the fact that he ran large and increasing deficits during his four years in office, but comparing how much national debt was added in absolute terms by 'President X' as opposed to 'President Y' is extremely misleading, for several reasons. Firstly, the value of the dollar changes a lot over time due to inflation (for example, $100 in 2009 is worth $140 today). Secondly, different Presidents run the country during different economic times (Trump ran the country in 2020 during the COVID crisis, which was a much more challenging economic time than anything Bush or Obama had to deal with). Thirdly, different Presidents start with different fiscal positions (Bush started with a post-Clinton surplus, while Trump started with a deficit after a difficult recovery from the recession).

To expand on my second point specifically, there are better ways of measuring the debt and deficit when adjusted for inflation, such as the debt to GDP ratio or the deficit as a percentage of GDP. I would look at a number of those indicators to determine who did a better job regarding both the debt and the deficit.

Lastly, this is not me defending Trump's or anyone's record on the debt. Bush, Obama and Trump all did a relatively poor job maintaining the USA's fiscal position and all should be criticized for continuing to run larger than necessary deficits and increasing the debt. It is just misleading to look at the debt in the way it is presented here.
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2023, 09:52:41 PM »

(This is only true if you ignore the revenue boosts the Trump tax cuts resulted in and count COVID spending as being created by Trump. Changes in the value of the dollar also matter, as others have noted.)
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2023, 06:59:57 AM »

Not by %

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Trump added 33.1% to the debt in his 4 years while Obama added 74% which means Obamaís average per year increase is higher than Trumpís too .

Keep in mind a huge chunk of Trumpís debt came from 2020 when COVID shut down the economy for months then significantly restricted it for a while afterwards so the government responded by trying to keep our economy afloat during that period with the passage of the cares act .



And Obama as we all know inherited an economy in tip-top shape.
Amirite?
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2023, 08:10:11 AM »

(This is only true if you ignore the revenue boosts the Trump tax cuts resulted in and count COVID spending as being created by Trump. Changes in the value of the dollar also matter, as others have noted.)

If you don't count COVID response spending against Trump, you also shouldn't count Great Recession response spending against Obama.  At a minimum that means the 2009 stimulus package and costs associated with the auto bailout shouldn't count against him.  I wonder what the story looks like for Obama after you remove that?
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2023, 11:45:48 PM »

(This is only true if you ignore the revenue boosts the Trump tax cuts resulted in and count COVID spending as being created by Trump. Changes in the value of the dollar also matter, as others have noted.)

If you don't count COVID response spending against Trump, you also shouldn't count Great Recession response spending against Obama.  At a minimum that means the 2009 stimulus package and costs associated with the auto bailout shouldn't count against him.  I wonder what the story looks like for Obama after you remove that?

All you really need to know to answer that is that the deficit in Obama's final year of his Presidency was something like $465 billion (still too hgh) whereas the Trump deficit in pre Covid 2019, despite the booming economy, was around $991 billion.

Even adjusting for inflation, nearly double, and with a stronger economy.
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