Lauren Boebert is about to become a grandmother at 36

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Fertility.

Women do not go barren the moment they turn 35, I’m afraid.

My grandmother's mother was in her forties when she was born (on a kitchen table, actually) a century ago.

[afleitch]

For like 95%+ of human history, this was just the norm.

Actually it wasn't. Very young marriages were historically things that happened in aristocratic circles for essentially political reasons, otherwise people would tend to marry quite a bit later (depending on the society in question often significantly later in the case of men). Children born to mothers under twenty were nearly always born out of wedlock as a result of fornication, and there was heavy social censure around that in nearly every society.

Yeah, there was an expectation, and often a critical need, for young women to work in working families. That often tied into work environments that discouraged or prohibited marriage. So it was common to work for close to a decade (starting at around 14) before marriage.

Earlier marriage, and earlier child birth in working class families was more of a short term post war phenomenon in part due to a more generous welfare state.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I should actually add, as it's relevant to this case, that social censure, at least in most societies, typically applied to both parties, at least if the man in question was caught: a pretty typical punishment for knocking a girl up (again, if caught) was to be cast out of the family home, and, certainly in Western Europe before the 19th century, to be exiled to another village in the district.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Didn't Republicans for decades rant about teen pregnancies? And how that's a loss of family values? We can say it again: It's always projection.

Imagine the outrage if that was Brandon's granddaughter.

Brandon disowns his granddaughter that Hunter fathered with a stripper.  That's a shame.   If I were little Navy's grandpa, she'd be one of the Family, period.  And so would just about everyone I know, regardless of party and politics.   (Or religion, for that matter. )

I agree that it’s a shame regarding Biden’s estranged granddaughter. Perhaps not quite as much a shame as a man writing his niece and nephew and their children out of his fabulously rich father’s will because his niece and nephew’s father was a good man who was driven to alcoholism and death by his own father, who was a sociopathic tyrant.

Thank God Joe Biden didn’t run against a man like that. Thank God a man like that was never President.

That's one side of the account.  It may well be the way it went down. 

Biden, of course, was supposed to be better than that.  All of what you mentioned is adult stuff where everyone has their side.  Little Navy Joan is 4 years old.  She deserves better.

My son remarried a year after his divorce.  His new wife had 2 daughters in an unusual situation; they were in the custody of a relative where his wife had to pay child support.  The actual details of this situation are complicated, and I'm not sure I've gotten the straight poop on this (not that I'm entitled to the straight poop), but my son, paid her child support, and took on the role of Dad for them; he's the only Dad they know.  He's now Grandpa to 4 boys and 2 girls.  He's literally pinched pennies to where he's had no disposible income after all bills were paid, but he's done what needed to be done for family.  And he's done it even though his current spouse's family don't quite have the same ethos regarding his kids by his first marriage.  He's done what he has had to do, he hasn't started needless drama, and he's actually precluded a great deal of potential drama that would not have served anything well.

My son is a Trump voter, enthusiastically, living in a Trump precinct in a Trump county that I would love to see BRTD spend a whole week in.  (It's Jackson County, Ohio, in the area of Ohio that killed Ohio's swing state status.)  Joe Biden probably regards him as MAGA scum.  That's too bad if he does.  My son has been the kind of stand-up and step-up guy that the entire world needs more of.  He would NEVER do a grandchild the way Joe and Dr. Jill are doing Navy Joan. 

[BG-NY (permanently retired)]

If the thread was about a black liberal 36 year old grandmother, attitudes in this thread would flip predictably.

[Ferguson97]

For like 95%+ of human history, this was just the norm.  I wish they were both married when they had kids, but let's not act like people waiting until their 30s to get married and have kids is normal either

This *was* normal in much of the Western world during the 20th century. America was the exception in that regard.

Also, what is wrong with giving young people time to build up lives and careers along with financial resources to give their children the best lives possible?

This is ultimately what it comes down to seeing a society of forcibly-married 25 year olds with four unwanted kids who live in poverty more favorable over an stable & loving family that happens to be a decade older.

Fertility.

My mother had me at 32, and my siblings at 34 and 38.

This isn't the 19th century anymore. It is perfectly safe and healthy for a woman to have her children in her 30s.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

My maternal grandmother (b. 1919) was married when she was 30 and had *seven* kids after that - the last when she was 46. Her mother (b.1883) was 36 when she her first child - my grandmother - and had a second a year later. My great-grandmother's husband (b.1874) was nine years older than her.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

It's not a good situation, but it's likely not a crime.  The word "consensual" isn't quite accurate, but they're only 2 years apart and I'm assuming that both parties went along with this.  I would hope that the adults here help lead these very young parents to be responsible parents, however that may come about.

[Santander]

This proves she’s a complete failure of a parent

No, this proves she has the best genes. Solid 10's strike while the iron is hot.

Professor Santander gives you a D- on your most recent trolling exam.

FOR THE LAST TIME BADGER, I AM NOT A TROLL.

[Ferguson97]

Conservatives trying to convince us that a 15-year-old getting pregnant is some wonderful miracle is actually hilarious

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

That's because it no longer matters any more.  Republicans are now forcing 11 year old rape victims to carry to term, and resisting efforts to impose a minimum age to be allowed to marry.  Who cares about such silly things as an "age of consent"?  Not when girls are at their most fertile, you see.

No age of consent was violated, and such would be the case in all but a small fraction of states. Of course, if this were in kooky California, both parties would be guilty of a misdemeanor. Not sure why we'd see fit to send a sizeable share of all teenagers into the criminal justice system for no valid reason, but I know there seems to be universal agreement that we aren't prosecuting enough people these days.

[ponderosa peen 🌲]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

I'm not really sure what exactly the takeaway from this is supposed to be.

[100% pro-choice no matter what]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

I'm not really sure what exactly the takeaway from this is supposed to be.

For all the bitching from conservatives in this thread about how women should give birth before 30 because of 'muh pregnancy complications' none seem to care that it is much more risky for a 15 year old to give birth than a 35 year old.

[ponderosa peen 🌲]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

I'm not really sure what exactly the takeaway from this is supposed to be.

For all the bitching from conservatives in this thread about how women should give birth before 30 because of 'muh pregnancy complications' none seem to care that it is much more risky for a 15 year old to give birth than a 35 year old.

Ah. That makes sense. Mercifully the Ignore feature did its job and I was not subjected to that nonsense.

[Ferguson97]

Her 17 year old son impregnated a 15 year old girl.

Interesting how this fact seems to be lost in the entire three pages of responses.

That's because it no longer matters any more.  Republicans are now forcing 11 year old rape victims to carry to term, and resisting efforts to impose a minimum age to be allowed to marry.  Who cares about such silly things as an "age of consent"?  Not when girls are at their most fertile, you see.

No age of consent was violated, and such would be the case in all but a small fraction of states. Of course, if this were in kooky California, both parties would be guilty of a misdemeanor. Not sure why we'd see fit to send a sizeable share of all teenagers into the criminal justice system for no valid reason, but I know there seems to be universal agreement that we aren't prosecuting enough people these days.

Yeah, not really sure why Joe Republic brought that up - 15 and 17 is a perfectly acceptable gap for a high school couple. The objectionable part is that a 15 and 17 year old are going to be parents, not that they're in a relationship.

[Andrew Cuomo is a No Go]

I don't really see how this is relevant to politics or reflects on Boebert herself, so I wasn't planning on commenting. That being said, I felt like I was going nuts reading some of these other replies upthread. If you think that a 15 year old getting pregnant isn't a problem, you genuinely need your head checked.

Obviously it isn't a crime for 15 and 17 year olds to date or even have sex, but this is a perfect example of why sex ed should exist. Teens should be well-educated on risks and protection so that unintended pregnancies don't happen. The mother in this case is 15. No 9th grader should have to choose between their education and their children, or be burdened with the financial and physical challenges of giving birth and raising a kid. While some small number of women did have children that young in the distant past, it is not something that works in a modern world where people are expected to be educated at least until age 18, and are not considered legal adults until that time.

Teen pregnancy is a problem. That doesn't mean that you need to demonize the parents, or (God forbid) use that as some sort of excuse to pull support for the people effected. I think it's gross the way that some in this thread have tried to use it to score political points. But pretending that it's perfectly normal and okay for 15 year olds to be having kids is also bizarre.

[Senator Sirius]

Can the teen pregnancy defenders who apparently exist give us any good reasons why 15 year olds should be having kids in modern times? What are the positives?

[Joe Kakistocracy]

Yeah, not really sure why Joe Republic brought that up - 15 and 17 is a perfectly acceptable gap for a high school couple. The objectionable part is that a 15 and 17 year old are going to be parents, not that they're in a relationship.

I brought it up for the exact reason you then described.

[ponderosa peen 🌲]

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm missing The Point, but the Boeberts are a family of means. As detestable as Boebert is as a person I think the child would be materially cared for in a way that isn't true for the children of many (most) teen parents. It's tragic that the parents (particularly the potential mother) will have a lot of options for their future foreclosed, but they are likely to have support that means they can still pursue things without necessarily harming the child.

Teen pregnancy is awful in large part because it's often associated with poverty and has the potential to drag the parents (particularly single mothers) back into cycles of poverty without support. But in all likelihood that's not likely to happen here. Boebert is of course part of a political movement that reinforces the cycles of poverty and lack of support, and she deserves scorn for that. But beyond that I'm not really sure what the finger-wagging is about. With the exception of being made a national spectacle because the Boebert name is attached to this story, everybody involved in this is going to be much better off than in the typical teen pregnancy case.

[100% pro-choice no matter what]

I hope the Boeberts don't pressure the 15 year-old one way or another on whether to keep it.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I hope the Boeberts don't pressure the 15 year-old one way or another on whether to keep it.

I would hope someone would.  That unborn child is a human being.

Where would you be now if YOU were aborted?  That's a serious question.  I'm not being snarky, but I'm asking you to consider something that's pretty deep; namely, the question of the Death of the Body and Eternity.  What do YOU believe?.  Lots of people have different ideas on that.  If you're OK with what would happen to Lauren Boebert's grandchild being aborted, what would specifically happen to that grandchild, and would you be OK if that happened to you?

[100% pro-choice no matter what]

I hope the Boeberts don't pressure the 15 year-old one way or another on whether to keep it.

I would hope someone would.  That unborn child is a human being.

Where would you be now if YOU were aborted?  That's a serious question.  I'm not being snarky, but I'm asking you to consider something that's pretty deep; namely, the question of the Death of the Body and Eternity.  What do YOU believe?.  Lots of people have different ideas on that.  If you're OK with what would happen to Lauren Boebert's grandchild being aborted, what would specifically happen to that grandchild, and would you be OK if that happened to you?

Then I wouldn't exist, and therefore wouldn't have a view on this.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm missing The Point, but the Boeberts are a family of means. As detestable as Boebert is as a person I think the child would be materially cared for in a way that isn't true for the children of many (most) teen parents. It's tragic that the parents (particularly the potential mother) will have a lot of options for their future foreclosed, but they are likely to have support that means they can still pursue things without necessarily harming the child.

Teen pregnancy is awful in large part because it's often associated with poverty and has the potential to drag the parents (particularly single mothers) back into cycles of poverty without support. But in all likelihood that's not likely to happen here. Boebert is of course part of a political movement that reinforces the cycles of poverty and lack of support, and she deserves scorn for that. But beyond that I'm not really sure what the finger-wagging is about. With the exception of being made a national spectacle because the Boebert name is attached to this story, everybody involved in this is going to be much better off than in the typical teen pregnancy case.

To be clear, I don't automatically associate teen pregnancies with poverty, but rather a demonstrable lack of sex education.  That's what makes this story so apropos; Lauren Boebert does not believe in teaching sex education in schools, and so both she herself, her own teenage son, and his 15 year old girlfriend are proof positive of what happens when you don't learn about sex education.

The poverty that often does go hand in hand with teenage pregnancy is often caused by the pregnancy, not the other way around.  Imagine having to drop out of high school without a diploma to suddenly raise a (very expensive!) child, and then see how that goes when finally entering the workforce.

It's a statistical fact that comprehensive sex education reduces the risk of teenage pregnancy, as I'm sure you know.  It's certainly more effective than the failed 'abstinence only' nonsense that Boebert herself couldn't even follow.

[TheReckoning]

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm missing The Point, but the Boeberts are a family of means. As detestable as Boebert is as a person I think the child would be materially cared for in a way that isn't true for the children of many (most) teen parents. It's tragic that the parents (particularly the potential mother) will have a lot of options for their future foreclosed, but they are likely to have support that means they can still pursue things without necessarily harming the child.

Teen pregnancy is awful in large part because it's often associated with poverty and has the potential to drag the parents (particularly single mothers) back into cycles of poverty without support. But in all likelihood that's not likely to happen here. Boebert is of course part of a political movement that reinforces the cycles of poverty and lack of support, and she deserves scorn for that. But beyond that I'm not really sure what the finger-wagging is about. With the exception of being made a national spectacle because the Boebert name is attached to this story, everybody involved in this is going to be much better off than in the typical teen pregnancy case.

To be clear, I don't automatically associate teen pregnancies with poverty, but rather a demonstrable lack of sex education.  That's what makes this story so apropos; Lauren Boebert does not believe in teaching sex education in schools, and so both she herself, her own teenage son, and his 15 year old girlfriend are proof positive of what happens when you don't learn about sex education.

The poverty that often does go hand in hand with teenage pregnancy is often caused by the pregnancy, not the other way around.  Imagine having to drop out of high school without a diploma to suddenly raise a (very expensive!) child, and then see how that goes when finally entering the workforce.

It's a statistical fact that comprehensive sex education reduces the risk of teenage pregnancy, as I'm sure you know.  It's certainly more effective than the failed 'abstinence only' nonsense that Boebert herself couldn't even follow.

What “sex education” do you think these kids were lacking that led to pregnancy? I mean, anyone with internet access today knows what a condom is. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

What “sex education” do you think these kids were lacking that led to pregnancy? I mean, anyone with internet access today knows what a condom is. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

Are you familiar with what comprehensive sex education actually consists of?  I'm not going to waste my time explaining it if you already do.  But it is proven as a more effective method of teaching teens how to use contraception in order to prevent unwanted pregnancies before they happen and STIs.

"Just Google it" is not an effective method of teaching sex ed either, I'm sorry to tell you.