Why are Democrats perceived as weak on security?

[Josh/Devilman88]

Rep: We don't need other countries to tell us what to do.

Dem: we are stupid and we need other countries to tell us how to live.

[Akno21]

Dem: we are stupid

Please stop mocking me for my stupidity. Just because I like French Toast, you have to do this to me.

[dazzleman]

Dem: we are stupid

Please stop mocking me for my stupidity. Just because I like French Toast, you have to do this to me.

Don't you mean "freedom toast?"

[J. J.]

I think the trend really began in the late 1970's. 

In 1976, Ford supported "detente," which he retitled as "Peace through strength."  Carter was just a bit to the left of Ford, but not by much.

Over the Carter years, several things happened.  First, the Panama Canal treaty.  A number of people on the right saw this as a retreat.  In 1979, the Shah fell (ironically, Carter had spent New Year Eve of 1977-8 with him on a major state visit).  In July of 1979 the Cuban backed Sandinistas took Nicaragua.  In November the hostage crisis started.  In December, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.  Carter's response was virtually non-existent and consisted only diplomatic action (save for the rescue attempt in 1980).

Did the Democratic Party at the time provide stronger alternative to Carter in the primaries.  No, Ted Kennedy was the "alternative" Democratic candidate.  He started his campaign by saying sympathetic things about the Iranians!

Enter Ronald Reagan.

[Akno21]

Dem: we are stupid

Please stop mocking me for my stupidity. Just because I like French Toast, you have to do this to me.

Don't you mean "freedom toast?"

Dems: Don't mock allies

[European]

I think the trend really began in the late 1970's.

...

Over the Carter years, several things happened. First, the Panama Canal treaty. A number of people on the right saw this as a retreat. In 1979, the Shah fell (ironically, Carter had spent New Year Eve of 1977-8 with him on a major state visit). In July of 1979 the Cuban backed Sandinistas took Nicaragua. In November the hostage crisis started. In December, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Carter's response was virtually non-existent and consisted only diplomatic action (save for the rescue attempt in 1980).

I think that it is also something to consider that the US had just pulled out of Viatnam in 76' and there would have not been the public stomach for the kind of intervention that some of those event's would have called for. At that time America was experencing sever self doubt and this would have lead to restrante on the part of the carter administration.

I think also that Jimmy Carter didn't want to be another Johnson and lead America into another protracted war.

There is also the fact that it was America which had toppled the only democratic, but left wing, government Iran had ever known and installed the Shah, which wasn't going to endear the Iranians to America.

Rep: We don't need other countries to tell us what to do.

Dem: we are stupid and we need other countries to tell us how to live.

I think that you should remember that no other country likes being told what to do, which republican administrations seem to have a habbit of  telling other countries what to do. and anyways working with other nations is not the same as being told what to do.

Democrats are more inclined to work wil other nations, and doing that is not a sign of weakness it's pragmatic. you also have the added benifet of spreading the cost and burden when things need to be done.

[dazzleman]

Dem: we are stupid

Please stop mocking me for my stupidity. Just because I like French Toast, you have to do this to me.

Don't you mean "freedom toast?"

Dems: Don't mock allies

The French are not an ally.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I guess unless a country supports every military action they can't be an ally.

France = Seagram's and Laetita Casta. Both of which are far better than anything from those immature "freedom fries" morons.

[dazzleman]

I guess unless a country supports every military action they can't be an ally.

France = Seagram's and Laetita Casta. Both of which are far better than anything from those immature "freedom fries" morons.

You guys do realize I was kidding with my "freedom toast" comment??

I'm not kidding when I say that France is not an ally, and they weren't a good ally for long before the Iraq war.

[J. J.]

I think the trend really began in the late 1970's.

...

Over the Carter years, several things happened. First, the Panama Canal treaty. A number of people on the right saw this as a retreat. In 1979, the Shah fell (ironically, Carter had spent New Year Eve of 1977-8 with him on a major state visit). In July of 1979 the Cuban backed Sandinistas took Nicaragua. In November the hostage crisis started. In December, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Carter's response was virtually non-existent and consisted only diplomatic action (save for the rescue attempt in 1980).

I think that it is also something to consider that the US had just pulled out of Viatnam in 76' and there would have not been the public stomach for the kind of intervention that some of those event's would have called for. At that time America was experencing sever self doubt and this would have lead to restrante on the part of the carter administration.

I think also that Jimmy Carter didn't want to be another Johnson and lead America into another protracted war.

There is also the fact that it was America which had toppled the only democratic, but left wing, government Iran had ever known and installed the Shah, which wasn't going to endear the Iranians to America.

Ah, the US pulled out of Vietnam in 1973, with the Southern government falling in 1975.  There was also the "Mayaguez (sp.?) Incident" where the US responded militarily to capture of an American merchant ship by the Cambodians, so I'm not really buying that America wasn't willing to defend its interests, especially in relation to hostage situations.

Let's also remember that Carter was strong supporter of SALT II, signing that treaty just seven months prior to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.  Carter appeared weak and deluded.

As for the fall of PM Mossadegh, that was hardly headline news in 1978-9, the overthrow taking place in 1953.  I would add that Mossadegh was attempting to set himself up as head of state at the time, in spite of promises not to do so.

[Akno21]

I guess unless a country supports every military action they can't be an ally.

France = Seagram's and Laetita Casta. Both of which are far better than anything from those immature "freedom fries" morons.

You guys do realize I was kidding with my "freedom toast" comment??

I'm not kidding when I say that France is not an ally, and they weren't a good ally for long before the Iraq war.

Why don't we make it offical and return the Statue of Liberty.

Even if you were kidding, you were still mocking, and using a bad joke.

[dazzleman]

I guess unless a country supports every military action they can't be an ally.

France = Seagram's and Laetita Casta. Both of which are far better than anything from those immature "freedom fries" morons.

You guys do realize I was kidding with my "freedom toast" comment??

I'm not kidding when I say that France is not an ally, and they weren't a good ally for long before the Iraq war.

Why don't we make it offical and return the Statue of Liberty.

Even if you were kidding, you were still mocking, and using a bad joke.

The French deserve to be mocked.

[Frodo]

Why are Democrats perceived as weak on security?

Just to get down to the very roots of this perception -because ever since they cut off funding for the Vietnam War with our troops still in the field, the American people have never quite regained confidence in them. 

With the Republicans having gotten this country into yet another Vietnam, this may be changing, though.  However, I don't put it past Democrats (i.e. John Murtha) to screw up a golden opportunity to wrest the national security issue from the GOP, and grab defeat from the jaws of victory, in which case the GOP would therefore have a second lease on life. 

[Reaganfan]

That's one thing I wish my grandparents could understand. When they cast votes for John Kerry, they think they are voting for Harry Truman or John Kennedy. They missed the 1960's-1970's switch of the democratic party from moderate to liberal. George W. Bush only helped to bring the liberal wing out in full force over the past six years.

My grandfather told me that his father voted for "that Dewey guy." He said, "my father used to say Democrats started wars...boy was he wrong!" Well...Wilson...F.D.R...Truman...Johnson...they kind of did. The times have changed. In 1948, Truman was the mid-western strong on security president running against the New England elite, Dewey. In 2004, it was the same, but this time the Republican was not the elite, the Democrat was.