Is this joke transphobic?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Since we seem to have a lot of "Is this transphobic?" threads here...

Someone recently made it in one of my music Facebook groups. The topic was Against Me! and this was the reply:

I liked them a lot more when Tom was the singer. This new Laura chick just isn't doing it for me.

...cue big uproar and thread temp locked.

[dead0man]

probably a little


To be fair though, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a non-trans person to make a trans joke that wouldn't offend a lot of trans people even if it clearly wasn't offensive.  It's possible they are the most "touchy" aggrieved group in history.

[Lambsbread]

The premise of the joke is funny but sometimes jokes can be funny and also unnecessary.

probably a little


To be fair though, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a non-trans person to make a trans joke that wouldn't offend a lot of trans people even if it clearly wasn't offensive.  It's possible they are the most "touchy" aggrieved group in history.

This is appallingly false. Congress has held hearings on video games and heavy metal music because suburban moms were offended enough in the 90s.

Every single mediocre white dude who thinks he's Carlin has a "trans joke" and they're all the exact same joke. If there's anything anyone should be aggrieved by, it's the fact that people can't be a little more creative in their humor. I mean, I'm not taking the SJW angle on this; I've certainly laughed at jokes punching down at people, but I also think it's insane that people think the freedom to make the same unfunny joke supersedes the freedom to, yknow, actually try to be funny.

[dead0man]

The premise of the joke is funny but sometimes jokes can be funny and also unnecessary.

probably a little


To be fair though, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a non-trans person to make a trans joke that wouldn't offend a lot of trans people even if it clearly wasn't offensive.  It's possible they are the most "touchy" aggrieved group in history.

This is appallingly false. Congress has held hearings on video games and heavy metal music because suburban moms were offended enough in the 90s.

Every single mediocre white dude who thinks he's Carlin has a "trans joke" and they're all the exact same joke. If there's anything anyone should be aggrieved by, it's the fact that people can't be a little more creative in their humor. I mean, I'm not taking the SJW angle on this; I've certainly laughed at jokes punching down at people, but I also think it's insane that people think the freedom to make the same unfunny joke supersedes the freedom to, yknow, actually try to be funny.

are you suggesting Mom's in the 90s were more sensitive than trans people in 2023?  I disagree.

Jokes, like all art, is subjective.  No art should be shut down because it offends a group.

[Lambsbread]

The premise of the joke is funny but sometimes jokes can be funny and also unnecessary.

probably a little


To be fair though, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a non-trans person to make a trans joke that wouldn't offend a lot of trans people even if it clearly wasn't offensive.  It's possible they are the most "touchy" aggrieved group in history.

This is appallingly false. Congress has held hearings on video games and heavy metal music because suburban moms were offended enough in the 90s.

Every single mediocre white dude who thinks he's Carlin has a "trans joke" and they're all the exact same joke. If there's anything anyone should be aggrieved by, it's the fact that people can't be a little more creative in their humor. I mean, I'm not taking the SJW angle on this; I've certainly laughed at jokes punching down at people, but I also think it's insane that people think the freedom to make the same unfunny joke supersedes the freedom to, yknow, actually try to be funny.

are you suggesting Mom's in the 90s were more sensitive than trans people in 2023?  I disagree.

Jokes, like all art, is subjective.  No art should be shut down because it offends a group.

I certainly agree with you that art shouldn't be "shut down" but the aforementioned comedians who make the same joke are still quite rich and successful despite the mild backlash they face each time they make that joke.

Also, I cited that example specifically because I don't see any Congressional hearings on transphobic jokes. As far as "shutting things down" go, this country has gotten a lot closer to banning video games than it has to banning trans jokes.

[dead0man]

I certainly agree with you that art shouldn't be "shut down"

good, many of your allies have a different opinion

but the aforementioned comedians who make the same joke are still quite rich and successful despite the mild backlash they face each time they make that joke.

I don't know what you mean by any of this.  What "aforementioned comedians"?  What "same joke"?

Also, I cited that example specifically because I don't see any Congressional hearings on transphobic jokes. As far as "shutting things down" go, this country has gotten a lot closer to banning video games than it has to banning trans jokes.

1.it only got that far because one of the authoritarians was married to a popular Senator, so popular that he was the first VP many posters here voted for.
2.it's far easier to ban a thing, that is, ya know, sold in stores, than it is to ban something as vague as a joke

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Probably, but it's still a bit funny and not worth getting upset over.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It's a bit insensitive, but it could be a lot worse. I suspect(assuming the people arguing it was offensive started the vitriol) a lot of the outrage over it in your group was from cis people who, while well intentioned, don't actually understand trans people very well. Or alternatively trans people who are extremely defensive due to trans people being a punching bag for most of their lives.

ETA: I voted yes, but its a very weak yes, and I wouldn't get pissed at someone for saying a joke on this level once.

[Sirius_]

It wasn't very funny either way

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Does "Tom" and "Laura" describe the same person pre and post transition?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Does "Tom" and "Laura" describe the same person pre and post transition?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Jane_Grace

[Ferguson97]

Does "Tom" and "Laura" describe the same person pre and post transition?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Jane_Grace

Deadnaming is probably the biggest reason why people are considering this transphobic.

You could probably make the same joke without doing that, something to the effect of "I much prefer the old singer. This new Laura chick just isn't doing it for me."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Does "Tom" and "Laura" describe the same person pre and post transition?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Jane_Grace

Deadnaming is probably the biggest reason why people are considering this transphobic.

You could probably make the same joke without doing that, something to the effect of "I much prefer the old singer. This new Laura chick just isn't doing it for me."

Not a single person brought that up. Also by most accounts Laura doesn't really care when that name is used in the context of their earlier stuff.

[Ferguson97]

Not a single person brought that up.

I'm not really sure what else they could have been offended by if not the deadnaming.

Also by most accounts Laura doesn't really care when that name is used in the context of their earlier stuff.

If that's the case with Laura, then that's her prerogative. But you shouldn't assume that this is going to be the case with every trans person - it's notable that since she's a famous person, it's probably harder for her to avoid this, so it might just be something that she's accepted.