When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties?
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  When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties?
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« on: February 19, 2023, 11:08:08 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 07:43:53 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2023, 01:16:35 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

Anything but. FDR voted against Teddy and in favor of Woodrow Wilson in 1912, became an official in Wilson's presidential administration (FDR was Assistant Secretary of the Navy), supported Wilson's reelection in 1916 (whereas Teddy steadfastly supported Charles Evans Hughes's campaign), and became the Democratic Party's nominee for Vice President in 1920.

During the 1932 campaign, Theodore Roosevelt Jr. (Teddy's son) remarked that "Franklin is such poor stuff it seems improbable that he should be elected President." When FDR won the election and Jr was asked by a reporter about his relationship with FDR and reaction to FDR's victory, Jr answered, "fifth cousin, about to be removed."
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2023, 01:24:16 PM »

If he ever would have, it would be the 2010's or 2020's, because Teddy was broadly from the "elite"/"establishment"/"old money"/"political dynasty" demographic, which was largely wary of Trump's candidacy and presidency (similar to how George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, William Howard Taft IV, Margaret Hoover, Nancy Kassebaum, and many others from comparable pedigrees all publicly repudiated or reportedly voted against Trump in 2016 and/or 2020).
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2023, 01:29:33 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2023, 01:33:01 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2023, 02:16:31 PM »

I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.

Still no. Wendell Willkie and Tom Dewey were also clearly on the interventionist side of the aisle. In fact, Willkie's rhetoric regarding FDR's handling of and reaction to World War II before US participation began (tactlessly supporting Britain and France, and thereby leading the country closer to war, while simultaneously failing to make the 'necessary preparations' for war) almost perfectly mirrored Charles Evans Hughes's rhetoric regarding Wilson's handling of and reaction to World War I before US participation began.
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2023, 02:17:44 PM »

(welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Thanks
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2023, 08:44:20 PM »

I could see him voting FDR in 32 and 36 only to back Willkie and Dewey in 1940, 44, and 48 respectively. He'd back Ike and Nixon too. I think if he were to switch at all it would've been in the 1990s.
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2023, 09:43:54 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2023, 03:07:06 PM »
« Edited: May 26, 2023, 08:04:36 PM by Republican Party Stalwart »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after?). I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2023, 04:11:50 PM »

If he somehow made it to 1964, Goldwater would be the turning point.
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« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2023, 11:03:10 AM »

This question was already asked on this board's sub-board quite recently and that thread has a lot of informative discussion as well. Anyway the correct answer is "never". I might imagine him voting against Goldwater in 1964, but as noted Herbert Hoover was a former Bull Moose Progressive and I just checked and he endorsed Goldwater shortly before dying, so even that could be a stretch.
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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2023, 12:09:05 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after)? I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.

And the relevant point here regarding all of this misplaced belief that any past Republican who engaged in any reform-centered thinking would just become a Democrat at some point, Hoover spent all of FDR's term opposing the New Deal, accused FDR of leading us toward socialism, he backed conservative Robert Taft for President in the 1952 primaries, spoke at the RNC as late as the 1960s and died in 1964 well after Goldwater's nomination as a proud Republican.
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« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2023, 08:07:41 PM »
« Edited: November 16, 2023, 10:36:59 AM by Republican Party Stalwart »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after)? I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.

And the relevant point here regarding all of this misplaced belief that any past Republican who engaged in any reform-centered thinking would just become a Democrat at some point, Hoover spent all of FDR's term opposing the New Deal, accused FDR of leading us toward socialism, he backed conservative Robert Taft for President in the 1952 primaries, spoke at the RNC as late as the 1960s and died well after Goldwater's nomination as a proud Republican.

Yes, as did the oh-so-mythologized "liberal" Dwight D. Eisenhower.
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2023, 09:50:47 PM »

TR did switch parties.  He joined the Progressive Party.  He identified as a Progressive.  Then, one day, he quit the Progressive Party and told his supporters to return to the Republican Party.

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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2023, 10:14:25 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after)? I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.

And the relevant point here regarding all of this misplaced belief that any past Republican who engaged in any reform-centered thinking would just become a Democrat at some point, Hoover spent all of FDR's term opposing the New Deal, accused FDR of leading us toward socialism, he backed conservative Robert Taft for President in the 1952 primaries, spoke at the RNC as late as the 1960s and died in 1964 well after Goldwater's nomination as a proud Republican.
So you believe that Teddy Roosevelt and other 1900s/1910s era Progressive Republicans were nowhere near as progressive as FDR and the New Deal Democrats?
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2023, 01:47:27 AM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after)? I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.

And the relevant point here regarding all of this misplaced belief that any past Republican who engaged in any reform-centered thinking would just become a Democrat at some point, Hoover spent all of FDR's term opposing the New Deal, accused FDR of leading us toward socialism, he backed conservative Robert Taft for President in the 1952 primaries, spoke at the RNC as late as the 1960s and died in 1964 well after Goldwater's nomination as a proud Republican.
So you believe that Teddy Roosevelt and other 1900s/1910s era Progressive Republicans were nowhere near as progressive as FDR and the New Deal Democrats?


Exactly. Nor were they as left/liberal/progressive as Woodrow Wilson et. al, nor William Jennings Bryan, nor even Alton Parker.
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2023, 01:17:30 PM »

When would Teddy Roosevelt have switched parties in who he typically supported, if at all?
The obvious answer would be 1932 when his own nephew became President and implemented his progressive dream program.

No, there were major differences between TR 1900s progressivism (focused on, among other things, busting trusts with a big stick to facilitate a more competitive free market) and FDR 1930s progressivism (focused on, among other things, tolerating or even encouraging cartelization to facilitate a business world more amenable to the government hitting the right buttons and pulling the right levers in a time of extreme economic crisis). The two branches of the family were also not on especially good terms, although TR and FDR as individuals seem to have gotten along for the most part. See one of the above posts (welcome to the forum, btw, Stalwart!).

Yes, I think TR would clearly go for Hoover in 1932.  I do think he votes for FDR eventually though, because they would strongly agree on WWII.
I know the two branches of the Roosevelt family generally disliked each other, but Teddy Roosevelt and FDR seemed to always be on good terms while Teddy was still alive. FDR liked Teddy as president and even voted for him in 1904, and later on helped Teddy out with a legal dispute in New York. Likewise, Teddy liked FDR, gave him his blessing to run for the New York state legislature in 1910 despite being a Democrat, and was not bothered by FDR supporting Wilson. So personal animous was not a problem.

So why would Teddy Roosevelt have preferred Hoover to FDR? What policies would he have preferred Hoover on? It seems to me that Teddy would have preferred FDR's progressivism (lowering tariffs, providing social safety nets, providing worker protections, and his own anti-trust stuff) over Hoover's conservatism. I know Teddy would have disagreed with some parts of FDR's policies, but FDR seemed closer to Teddy than Hoover did. Unlike in 1916 his strong disagreements with Wilson's foreign policy would not have been a problem.

Hoover himself was literally a Bull Moose Progressive who voted for Teddy in 1912. Hoover supported farm subsidies, bailouts of crucial industries, stronger labor protection laws, increased taxes on the rich, and public works projects to create jobs (did you know who the Hoover Dam was named after)? I see no reason why Teddy would have voted against Hoover, even considering his lack of personal animosity towards FDR.

And the relevant point here regarding all of this misplaced belief that any past Republican who engaged in any reform-centered thinking would just become a Democrat at some point, Hoover spent all of FDR's term opposing the New Deal, accused FDR of leading us toward socialism, he backed conservative Robert Taft for President in the 1952 primaries, spoke at the RNC as late as the 1960s and died in 1964 well after Goldwater's nomination as a proud Republican.
So you believe that Teddy Roosevelt and other 1900s/1910s era Progressive Republicans were nowhere near as progressive as FDR and the New Deal Democrats?


Just different flavors and not at ALL inherently linked to how we use the term “progressive” today (which more or less seems to mean “soft leftist” from a historical perspective), which is where most Democrats go wrong with these assertions, IMO.  “Progressive” during that era referred to a broad movement that more or less coalesced around the basic support of reforming society in the areas where it was seen as flawed.  That can draw from otherwise “conservative” and otherwise “liberal” characters.  Figures like Otto von Bismarck and Alexander Hamilton are great examples of right wingers who nonetheless had many reformer tendencies and ideas.  It might be fair to say a “progressive” (in Teddy’s era) might be inherently less right wing than a fellow Republican who opposes the Progressive Movement, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that he’s just as left-wing as a Democrat who is a “progressive.”

This isn’t an actual comparison as much as a different kind of example, but just look at a much more specific issue like free trade.  A right winger could support it from a pro-business perspective, or he could oppose it from a nationalist perspective.  A left winger could support it from a Wilsonian internationalist perspective, or he could oppose it from a pro-labor/redistributionist perspective.  It would be a big mistake to group Trump and Bernie Sanders together ideologically in 100 years.
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2023, 12:37:45 PM »

One caveat at the time, is that many business interests supported protectionism, though its support was in decline by the 1910s. Think of the divide between TR and Nelson Aldrich over tariff reforms in that decade, with Aldrich definitely serving the interests of the large trusts and TR opposing them.

Protectionism was, at least in the Republican Party, a decidedly conservative position. That is a big reason why Southern Conservatives (the planter class and other rising business interests in the South) and the Northern Conservatives (the business wing of the GOP centered in the Northeast) could not live under the same roof, even beyond the whole Civil War legacy issue. Northern conservatives were "pro-business nationalists" while Southern ones were "classical liberals" when it comes to trade.

That said I do agree with the thought process over "Progressivism" being drawn from different sources and motivations and not necessarily being one unified movement that was "destined to come together" once party legacy got out of the way. They drew on different traditions and while eventually a unified progressive movement would be synthesized that was decades later and relied mostly on new generations of people to push forward.
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2023, 12:48:52 PM »

One caveat at the time, is that many business interests supported protectionism, though its support was in decline by the 1910s. Think of the divide between TR and Nelson Aldrich over tariff reforms in that decade, with Aldrich definitely serving the interests of the large trusts and TR opposing them.

Protectionism was, at least in the Republican Party, a decidedly conservative position. That is a big reason why Southern Conservatives (the planter class and other rising business interests in the South) and the Northern Conservatives (the business wing of the GOP centered in the Northeast) could not live under the same roof, even beyond the whole Civil War legacy issue. Northern conservatives were "pro-business nationalists" while Southern ones were "classical liberals" when it comes to trade.

That said I do agree with the thought process over "Progressivism" being drawn from different sources and motivations and not necessarily being one unified movement that was "destined to come together" once party legacy got out of the way. They drew on different traditions and while eventually a unified progressive movement would be synthesized that was decades later and relied mostly on new generations of people to push forward.

For sure, and I did not mean to insinuate anything about the issue of trade in any past era.  It is just a nice example in our current time of how you can arrive at the same policy position from a totally different ideological framework.  Slavery in the 1800s could work the same way, though it is rather irresponsible to try to put our modern conceptions of ideology onto those people.  A Northerner who opposes slavery solely (or mostly) because the artificially cheaper Southern goods negatively affect the Northern economies isn't really being an abolitionist for some left wing reason, and neither is a religious fanatic who fears God's wrath on America if we do not cast out such a sin.  Similarly, while you can frame an abolitionist who wants to improve the living standards of Black Americans and extend rights to them as in some way "left wing," an otherwise "left wing" individual who believes in paternal racism and that Blacks are genetically inferior and is sympathetic to slavery isn't automatically some right winger.
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2023, 06:55:30 PM »

Never, he wasn't that stupid.
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2023, 04:03:09 PM »

Teddy has six children.
Alice was a lifelong Republican who voted for Johnson in 1964 but Republican and after.
Theodore Roosevelt was a lifelong Republican (d. 1944).
Kermit was seemingly never involved in politics.
Ethel was a liberal Republican who supported the civil rights movement and who probably voted for Johnson.
Archibald was a very conservative Republican who published a book of incendiary racial quotes from his father.
Quentin died as a youth.

The distant family relation certainly would not have caused Roosevelt to switch parties in the 30s or 40s. 1964 is the first election where I could imagine him crossing the aisle.

Even then, it's worth noting that his racial views were considerably to the right of Goldwater. Teddy was the proud nephew of Confederate soldiers, and his son didn't fabricate those aforementioned quotes. About half of Northern Republicans voted for Goldwater, and Teddy very likely would have been one.

After the 80s, the leftward drift of the Democratic Party makes any notion of Teddy becoming a Democrat a bit absurd.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2023, 04:56:00 PM »

I see him as only Dem in the landslides, basically.  He would likely go against FDR the 1st time, but for him in 1936 and 1940, then back to the Republicans starting in either 1944 or 1948 until he defects to LBJ in 1964.   Then he stays R until 2008 but grumbles a lot about Reagan and the Bushes on stuff like trade.  I do think he would vote for Obama at least once, but then he would like Trump more than any other post-WWII R, so he never really switches.
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Death of a Salesman
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2023, 08:10:23 PM »

I see him as only Dem in the landslides, basically.  He would likely go against FDR the 1st time, but for him in 1936 and 1940, then back to the Republicans starting in either 1944 or 1948 until he defects to LBJ in 1964.   Then he stays R until 2008 but grumbles a lot about Reagan and the Bushes on stuff like trade.  I do think he would vote for Obama at least once, but then he would like Trump more than any other post-WWII R, so he never really switches.
Most committed Republicans voted against FDR four times! He was very popular with the masses, but he did terrible with wealthy Republicans in 1932 and 1936. There are many towns in New England where he did worse than Al Smith.
Hoover and Landon were "progressive" Republicans who backed Roosevelt's 1912 run. I doubt he switches to vote against a former loyalist.
Wilkie and Dewey were internationalist Republicans. Again, it would be bizarre for TR to flip then.
I cannot imagine him objecting to Eisenhower or Nixon.
Goldwater was controversial, but as I mentioned above, TR was much more conservative on racial issues than his current reputation, and if Eisenhower could vote for Goldwater, I'm sure TR could.
Up until Trump, every other Republican nominee was perfectly fine with Republican stalwarts, and I doubt TR would have objected too much to a nominee who was a protectionist and immigration restrictionist.
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