What if the President and Vice President were elected in seperate elections?
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  What if the President and Vice President were elected in seperate elections?
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Author Topic: What if the President and Vice President were elected in seperate elections?  (Read 14981 times)
Ragnaroni
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« on: February 14, 2023, 04:16:17 PM »

Serious question. Imagine the wannabe VPs also have to campaign in the swing states in order to get elected and the rest of the country. Imagine a ticket split for unpopular running for reelection Presidents by compensating with a VP of the opposing party? Also it sort is "more" democratic (in the like you voted for them sense).
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FloridaMan1845
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2023, 10:25:30 PM »

Serious question. Imagine the wannabe VPs also have to campaign in the swing states in order to get elected and the rest of the country. Imagine a ticket split for unpopular running for reelection Presidents by compensating with a VP of the opposing party? Also it sort is "more" democratic (in the like you voted for them sense).
Biden/Pence admin?
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MABA 2020
MakeAmericaBritishAgain
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2023, 02:34:50 PM »

This would be fascinating and also terrible
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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2023, 09:08:20 AM »

1940, 1968, 1972, 1988, 2000, 2004, and 2020 would likely have split administrations at least. 2024 as well even if Donald Trump picks Kari Lake as his running mate.
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defe07
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2023, 11:21:06 PM »

I would love if voters could vote for the current presidential and vicepresidential candidates but as a free for all.

My idea would be to give each voter 2 votes; the winner of the state gets the presidential electors while the runner up gets the vicepresidential electors.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2023, 06:32:28 PM »

No doubt Bush/Bentsen would win in 1988.
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Ragnaroni
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2023, 07:04:22 AM »

1940, 1968, 1972, 1988, 2000, 2004, and 2020 would likely have split administrations at least. 2024 as well even if Donald Trump picks Kari Lake as his running mate.
Bro Bush without Cheney and Nixon without Agnew would be good for the country.
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Ragnaroni
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2023, 07:04:59 AM »

Honestly a better bench than Bush/Potatoe
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KEmperor
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2023, 08:48:22 PM »

So you want to back to pre 1800 rules?  There's a reason Jefferson has that changed.
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SWE
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2023, 12:43:13 AM »

So you want to back to pre 1800 rules?  There's a reason Jefferson has that changed.
Pre 1800, electors would cast two votes making no distinction between president and VP, with the runner up becoming VP. OP's hypothetical would be two separate elections, one for President and one for VP. Those are two very different rulesets
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wnwnwn
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2023, 02:28:05 PM »

1964


1976
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Ragnaroni
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2024, 07:58:12 AM »

1964


1976

Carter-Dole would be interesting. I wonder how Bush-Edwards or Trump-Kaine would go.
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oldtimer
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2024, 09:32:50 AM »

You would have a lot of murders and impeachments.

Since most would vote for the opposite party to balance things, and the party which loses the presidency would try to remove the President for it's Vice President to take over.
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CookieDamage
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2024, 03:38:23 PM »

You would have a lot of murders and impeachments.

Since most would vote for the opposite party to balance things, and the party which loses the presidency would try to remove the President for it's Vice President to take over.

I think people would still vote straight ticket in this regard. Especially nowadays. I think one exception would honestly be 2016, where enough third-party Never-trumpers may sit out the Pres vote but vote for Tim Kaine and allow him to barely defeat Pence.

I think both Biden and Harris would defeat Trump and Pence. Yall forget how badly Pence did in his debate with Harris. Plus he's a total dud of a candidate period.

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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2024, 10:43:37 AM »

1964


1976


Humphrey would win by more.
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2024, 01:09:09 PM »

I think both Biden and Harris would defeat Trump and Pence. Yall forget how badly Pence did in his debate with Harris. Plus he's a total dud of a candidate period.

That was not the conventional wisdom at the time.
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Woke Frenzy
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2024, 06:19:38 AM »

I think people would still vote straight ticket in this regard. Especially nowadays. I think one exception would honestly be 2016, where enough third-party Never-trumpers may sit out the Pres vote but vote for Tim Kaine and allow him to barely defeat Pence.

I'll go out on a limb and dare to say that McCain/Biden would have won in 2008.
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Christian Man
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2024, 01:45:50 AM »

I think people would still vote straight ticket in this regard. Especially nowadays. I think one exception would honestly be 2016, where enough third-party Never-trumpers may sit out the Pres vote but vote for Tim Kaine and allow him to barely defeat Pence.

I'll go out on a limb and dare to say that McCain/Biden would have won in 2008.
The economy was in shambles and Obama brought in voters who weren't interested in voting as well as created an enthusiasm within the Dem party not seen since at least LBJ. I think that while Palin hurt McCain, Obama would've still pulled it off.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2024, 09:01:19 PM »

This would have been a disaster during the Civil War era (if not earlier).

Imagine Lincoln winning the presidency while Breckenridge is re-elected as VP. The division of the administration, a high threat of an earlier assassination, etc. would have been devastating to Lincoln's conduct of the war.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2024, 06:30:31 PM »

Oh that's a fun concept. Let's try 1960:



Nixon: 269
Kennedy: 254
Unpledged: 14

That's one election where VP selection might have made the difference. Without LBJ to help Kennedy, he does significantly worse in the South and allows Nixon to just barely eke out a win. By contrast, Lodge did little to help Nixon in the Northeast, so there's little for him to lose. The popular vote is still ridiculously close, but Nixon just barely ekes out a win, and the whole course of history is changed.

Now, the VP election would be very different from the Presidential one. I'm picturing something like this:



Johnson: 302
Lodge: 235

And so we get the absolute bonkers scenario of a Nixon/LBJ administration, with levels of mutual backstabbing that would make Adams and Jefferson blush. The potential butterflies here are beyond insane, of course.

I might try more of these later.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2024, 10:05:11 PM »

1964:



Johnson: 486
Goldwater: 52

No change to the presidential map. Miller was a nonentity and HHH could have helped if the Midwest and Rust Belt were close but they just weren't. As for the VP election:



Humphrey: 425
Miller: 113

HHH's progressive firebrand reputation makes it harder for him to break through in the South and in the more rock-ribbed GOP states, but Miller's nonentity status and the national environment still carries him to an easy victory.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2024, 11:37:39 AM »

1968:



Nixon: 305
Humphrey: 187
Wallace: 46

Can't see the Presidential changing much except for Maine flipping to Nixon.

VP:



Muskie: 276
Agnew: 235
LeMay: 27

On the one hand, LeMay wouldn't be nearly as much of a presence in the campaign as Wallace was, and that would help Agnew consolidate the segregationist vote and do much better in the South. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Muskie would do a lot better elsewhere, with Agnew's conservative loudmouth persona just not playing well elsewhere, and I think Muskie could prevail in just enough states to win the election, just once again ending up with President Nixon having to share power with a Democratic VP.
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wnwnwn
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2024, 05:28:10 PM »

1924

PRES



VP



1928

PRES



VP



1932

PRES



VP

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Antonio V
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2024, 09:41:48 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2024, 03:49:44 PM by Antonio the Sixth »

1972:



Nixon: 520
McGovern: 17

I can't really see anything changing here. I really doubt McGovern could have done any worse without Shriver, or that Agnew helped Nixon carry any state. Shriver on his own could do a little better without McGovern dragging him down, but he can't overcome the brutal national environment:



Agnew: 496
Shriver: 42
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Antonio V
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2024, 09:34:44 AM »

1976:



Carter: 294
Ford: 244

Without their the VP candidates to act as ideological anchors with their respective parties' bases, the map is even weirder than IRL, with Carter carrying Oklahoma as he came close to doing IRL. Overall not much difference, though.

The VP race meanwhile is a very different matter:



Mondale: 305
Dole: 233

A much more "modern" looking map given the much stronger ideological polarization between the candidates. Mondale still wins due to the overall environment but it's far from a blowout.
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