2023 NCAA conference realignment (12/20: the PAC-2 join the WCC)

[7,052,770]

In more urgent news, does anyone understand what Cal/Stanford plan to do if the only six valuable schools all leave the conference, now that they appear to be off the Big Ten wishlist?

It was reported yesterday that Boise State, Fresno State and UNLV are not on the Pac-12 expansion list solely because of academics (and instead Colorado State somehow is). It's hard to see this exclusionary behavior being driven by anyone else, and it's almost certain to accelerate their own demise.

Oregon State and Washington State would go MW if they had to, but it's clear Cal/Stanford will not relegate themselves to that future. Football independence? But they have to put other sports somewhere. And I'm not sure which schools they would align themselves with west of the Mississippi. Rice and UC-Davis? Surely this arrangement would not be of interest to SMU any longer.

Seems complicated by them participating in nearly every sport possible.

Stanford should go to the Ivy League and Cal to the Big West. Football can go independent or a G5 affiliate.

Stanford and Cal don't want to be relegated to ESPN+.

It's probably happening anyway if they can't get into the Big 10.

The Pac 12 dies then?

I think so, either in fact or in spirit.

If the conference gets down to 4 (Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, and Stanford) and invites 5-6 more teams to replace them out of the G5 ranks, it's pretty clearly not a power conference anymore.

[GeorgiaModerate]

In more urgent news, does anyone understand what Cal/Stanford plan to do if the only six valuable schools all leave the conference, now that they appear to be off the Big Ten wishlist?

It was reported yesterday that Boise State, Fresno State and UNLV are not on the Pac-12 expansion list solely because of academics (and instead Colorado State somehow is). It's hard to see this exclusionary behavior being driven by anyone else, and it's almost certain to accelerate their own demise.

Oregon State and Washington State would go MW if they had to, but it's clear Cal/Stanford will not relegate themselves to that future. Football independence? But they have to put other sports somewhere. And I'm not sure which schools they would align themselves with west of the Mississippi. Rice and UC-Davis? Surely this arrangement would not be of interest to SMU any longer.

Seems complicated by them participating in nearly every sport possible.

Stanford should go to the Ivy League and Cal to the Big West. Football can go independent or a G5 affiliate.

Stanford and Cal don't want to be relegated to ESPN+.

It's probably happening anyway if they can't get into the Big 10.

The Pac 12 dies then?

There's precedent for a major conference dying.  Look at what happened to the Southwest Conference.

[YE]

Isn't the WAC a dying conference?

This was true about 8 years ago. They’ve rebuilt itself through D2 moveups.

[I’m not Stu]

Wouldn't the Mountain West or Conference USA be better for Cal if it leaves a power conference? The Big West rarely has games on cable networks.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Wouldn't the Mountain West or Conference USA be better for Cal if it leaves a power conference? The Big West rarely has games on cable networks.

This is my question ultimately. They've picked not associating with Boise State as their hill to die on. Well, an invitation to the Pac-12 to save it, or a lifeboat from the MW would be the only options for relevancy.

Unless the last four schools stick together, and SMU and San Diego State still think there is any remaining prestige with them over Boise and Fresno.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Also, these schedule releases and buzzings give me the very nauseating feeling that this is all moving towards a promotion/relegation class within conference. The greed means they need the best of the best television inventory every week. This isn't happening for USC to alternate between Indiana, Northwestern and Illinois every three years, though they will try to make it work at first.

16 teams is kind of workable. I dreamed up 18 team scenarios myself with geographically intensive permanent division games only. But once, this goes to 22/24 with ACC poaching, these mini-leagues are going to be a two-class system without a care for history. Just an in-level round-robin for the best teams of the previous year.

RIP guaranteed mid-level rivalry games (e.g., Wisconsin-Minnesota) unless you save an OOC spot. RIP payouts for G5 and FCS schools that fund your whole season. RIP the tremendous one year turnarounds that come with amateur players growing and believing. RIP playing for a school you truly love because they are already eliminated for championship consideration the previous season.

[I’m not Stu]

Isn't the WAC a dying conference?

This was true about 8 years ago. They’ve rebuilt itself through D2 moveups.

The WAC has had at least one radio only (not even an ESPN+ stream) game as late as this season (Southwestern Adventist @ Sam Houston State). A few years ago GCU had a radio only game against Chicago State. In states other than Texas, the WAC is dying.

[Хahar 🤔]

Seattle University is Catholic, urban and an historical program. This would be the only logical fit if they can better meet WCC standards of play. Currently they are an inadequate replacement for BYU - closer in quality to USD and Santa Clara than San Francisco and LMU. Too much downside risk. Grand Canyon is also a minor candidate if expansion is needed due to their respectable facilities but is also a longshot

I don't understand your categories of "San Diego and Santa Clara" and "San Francisco and Loyola Marymount", since San Diego was the worst team of that group this year and Santa Clara was the best. Is this based on something other than men's basketball performance?

Anyway, Gonzaga doesn't want Seattle so they're never getting in. There's no need for the conference to replace BYU and I haven't seen any indication that the conference intends to. Grand Canyon was a for-profit school until a couple years ago, so no conference that isn't desperate wants them. It's why they're stuck in the WAC.

Adding on to this, the WCC broadcast today discussed the new league commissioner and strongly suggested that this would mean expansion to replace BYU and potentially more. There just aren't many non-football schools anywhere near the footprint that work well at all. Other than Grand Canyon and Seattle, which have aforementioned issues, the only name I can think of is Denver. The WCC would be an obvious step up for Denver from the Summit League and the school's two championship-level sports (ice hockey and lacrosse) wouldn't be affected by a conference change, so I would expect this to happen.

[I’m not Stu]

Seattle University is Catholic, urban and an historical program. This would be the only logical fit if they can better meet WCC standards of play. Currently they are an inadequate replacement for BYU - closer in quality to USD and Santa Clara than San Francisco and LMU. Too much downside risk. Grand Canyon is also a minor candidate if expansion is needed due to their respectable facilities but is also a longshot

I don't understand your categories of "San Diego and Santa Clara" and "San Francisco and Loyola Marymount", since San Diego was the worst team of that group this year and Santa Clara was the best. Is this based on something other than men's basketball performance?

Anyway, Gonzaga doesn't want Seattle so they're never getting in. There's no need for the conference to replace BYU and I haven't seen any indication that the conference intends to. Grand Canyon was a for-profit school until a couple years ago, so no conference that isn't desperate wants them. It's why they're stuck in the WAC.

Adding on to this, the WCC broadcast today discussed the new league commissioner and strongly suggested that this would mean expansion to replace BYU and potentially more. There just aren't many non-football schools anywhere near the footprint that work well at all. Other than Grand Canyon and Seattle, which have aforementioned issues, the only name I can think of is Denver. The WCC would be an obvious step up for Denver from the Summit League and the school's two championship-level sports (ice hockey and lacrosse) wouldn't be affected by a conference change, so I would expect this to happen.

How could Denver fit in the WCC despite not being a Christian school?

[7,052,770]

There's always Cal Baptist for the WCC, or else call up someone from the D2 Pacific West Conference.

[I’m not Stu]

Is San Diego State more likely to join the Pac 12 or Big 12?

[Illiniwek]

Is San Diego State more likely to join the Pac 12 or Big 12?

Pac, but I'd hold off assuming they get to move to either conference. If Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah make the move to the Big 12 this month, then I would imagine Oregon and Washington and maybe Cal and Stanford will be doing anything possible and striking any deal feasible to move to the Big Ten. That would leave the Pac 12 leftovers in a real predicament, that would probably result in them joining / merging with the Mountain West. If that happens I cannot see the Big 12 adding SDSU any time soon.

[I’m not Stu]

San Diego State will probably join the Pac 12.

[NewYorkExpress]

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1659296128343371789

Speculation swirling around UConn heading to the Big Twelve.

Ideally, UConn would either work out an arrangement with the ACC that would allow them to play football there, while being in the Big East for all other sports, or stay an Independent in football.

Other than West Virginia, there is no regional partner for UConn in the Big Twelve, and that isn't changing anytime soon.

That said, Big Twelve Basketball might become more interesting. Regular Kansas/UConn games would be fun.

[Gass3268]

My proposal:

Atlantic Coast Conference
- Clemson
- Duke
- Georgia Tech
- Florida State
- Miami (switch spots with Maryland)
- North Carolina
- North Carolina State
- South Carolina
- Virginia
- Wake Forest

Big East
- Boston College
- Cincinnati
- Louisville
- Maryland (switch spots with Miami)
- Notre Dame
- Penn State
- Pittsburgh
- Rutgers
- Syracuse
- West Virginia

Big Ten
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Iowa
- Michigan
- Michigan State
- Minnesota
- Northwestern
- Ohio State
- Purdue
- Wisconsin

Big West
- Colorado
- Brigham Young
- Iowa State
- Kansas
- Kansas State
- Missouri
- Nebraska
- Oklahoma
- Oklahoma State
- Utah

Southeastern Conference
- Alabama
- Auburn
- Georgia
- Florida
- Kentucky
- Louisiana State
- Mississippi
- Mississippi State
- Tennessee
- Vanderbilt

Southwest Conference
- Arkansas
- Baylor
- Central Florida (yes I know this makes little sense, but they need a spot, its a short flight across the Gulf)
- Houston
- Rice
- Southern Methodist
- Texas
- Texas A&M
- Texas Christian
- Texas Tech

Pacific Ten
- Arizona
- Arizona State
- California
- California-Los Angeles
- Oregon
- Oregon State
- Southern California
- Stanford
- Washington
- Washington State

[NewYorkExpress]

My proposal:

Atlantic Coast Conference
- Clemson
- Duke
- Georgia Tech
- Florida State
- Miami (switch spots with Maryland)
- North Carolina
- North Carolina State
- South Carolina
- Virginia
- Wake Forest

Big East
- Boston College
- Cincinnati
- Louisville
- Maryland (switch spots with Miami)
- Notre Dame
- Penn State
- Pittsburgh
- Rutgers
- Syracuse
- West Virginia

Big Ten
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Iowa
- Michigan
- Michigan State
- Minnesota
- Northwestern
- Ohio State
- Purdue
- Wisconsin

Big West
- Colorado
- Brigham Young
- Iowa State
- Kansas
- Kansas State
- Missouri
- Nebraska
- Oklahoma
- Oklahoma State
- Utah

Southeastern Conference
- Alabama
- Auburn
- Georgia
- Florida
- Kentucky
- Louisiana State
- Mississippi
- Mississippi State
- Tennessee
- Vanderbilt

Southwest Conference
- Arkansas
- Baylor
- Central Florida (yes I know this makes little sense, but they need a spot, its a short flight across the Gulf)
- Houston
- Rice
- Southern Methodist
- Texas
- Texas A&M
- Texas Christian
- Texas Tech

Pacific Ten
- Arizona
- Arizona State
- California
- California-Los Angeles
- Oregon
- Oregon State
- Southern California
- Stanford
- Washington
- Washington State

I notice UConn got left out of your Big East and your ACC...so where do the Huskies go?

[7,052,770]

Also Virginia Tech doesn't appear to have made the cut

[Gass3268]

snip

I notice UConn got left out of your Big East and your ACC...so where do the Huskies go?

UConn has deemphasized Football to the point they stay an Independent.

Also Virginia Tech doesn't appear to have made the cut

Oh crap I'm missed them. They go into the Big East and I guess Notre Dame goes back to being Independent, along with Army and UConn.

Scheduling would be easy. Play everyone in your conference once (9 games) with 3 non-conference games, one of which must be against a P7 school. All conference champions make the playoff, with 5 wild card teams.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Big 12 reportedly eyeing Colorado and Memphis: https://247sports.com/article/big-12-expansion-eyes-memphis-substantive-talks-with-colorado-pe-210957842/.  TBH I don't think the Big 12 has a clue on who they're going to get.

[NewYorkExpress]

Big 12 reportedly eyeing Colorado and Memphis: https://247sports.com/article/big-12-expansion-eyes-memphis-substantive-talks-with-colorado-pe-210957842/.  TBH I don't think the Big 12 has a clue on who they're going to get.

Colorado and Memphis both make sense for the Big 12 ,though getting Nebraska back would make more sense than adding Memphis. I haven't seen any indication that Nebraska would like to leave the Big Ten, but the Cornhuskers are out of place there, and their departure would allow the Big Ten to add a school that would be a better fit for them, such as Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, or Duke/North Carolina.

[GeorgiaModerate]

And today's rumor is that Colorado is going to the Big 12, but the second team is Arizona, not Memphis.

[Storr]

And today's rumor is that Colorado is going to the Big 12, but the second team is Arizona, not Memphis.

Call me a traditionalist, but if the Big 12 wants to take two additional schools, one of the them being Colorado, the second should be SMU.

[Illiniwek]

And today's rumor is that Colorado is going to the Big 12, but the second team is Arizona, not Memphis.

Call me a traditionalist, but if the Big 12 wants to take two additional schools, one of the them being Colorado, the second should be SMU.

I think Arizona is a fantastic fit for the Big 12. Should cement the Big 12 as a top basketball conference. It would provide regional rivals for BYU and Colorado, and would fit in very naturally with the Texas and Oklahoma schools in a southwest-culture way.

This also could be a sign that Arizona State may be an eventual candidate for Big Ten expansion. If the Big Ten establishing itself as the national conference with teams in every region is inevitable, then ASU is a perfect add by being in a top 5 and growing population base full of Big Ten alumni retirees. I don't think it's a coincidence that ASU was just invited into the Association of American Universities (as close to a prerequisite of Big Ten membership as there is). ASU might not have the most attractive teams right now, but the potential upside is huge.

This also makes sense that Arizona is pushing ahead alone on this move Big 12. They see the writing on the wall that ASU would leave them behind to join the Big Ten, and have decided jump off the sinking ship first and find a decent landing ground. I love all aspects of it.

[NewYorkExpress]

And today's rumor is that Colorado is going to the Big 12, but the second team is Arizona, not Memphis.

Call me a traditionalist, but if the Big 12 wants to take two additional schools, one of the them being Colorado, the second should be SMU.

I think Arizona is a fantastic fit for the Big 12. Should cement the Big 12 as a top basketball conference. It would provide regional rivals for BYU and Colorado, and would fit in very naturally with the Texas and Oklahoma schools in a southwest-culture way.

This also could be a sign that Arizona State may be an eventual candidate for Big Ten expansion. If the Big Ten establishing itself as the national conference with teams in every region is inevitable, then ASU is a perfect add by being in a top 5 and growing population base full of Big Ten alumni retirees. I don't think it's a coincidence that ASU was just invited into the Association of American Universities (as close to a prerequisite of Big Ten membership as there is). ASU might not have the most attractive teams right now, but the potential upside is huge.

This also makes sense that Arizona is pushing ahead alone on this move Big 12. They see the writing on the wall that ASU would leave them behind to join the Big Ten, and have decided jump off the sinking ship first and find a decent landing ground. I love all aspects of it.

Nebraska would be a better fit, being a prior member of the Big 12, and not really being a fit in the Big Ten. Arizona would be a better choice than Colorado right now, I suppose, as despite Colorado's prior Big 12 membership, it's probably easier for Arizona to build rivalries with other schools in the Confrerence (especially without Nebraska also returning), than it might be for Colorado.

Arizona/Kansas will be a great on-court rivalry, and it shouldn't be too hard to build up rivalries with Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston and TCU (plus SMU if and when the Mustangs join at a later date).

[NewYorkExpress]

San Diego State is officially leaving the Mountain West.

San Diego State gave the Mountain West written notice this week that the school "intends to resign from the Mountain West Conference," sources told ESPN.

In a letter, the school asked the Mountain West for a "one-month extension given unforeseen delays involving other collegiate athletic conferences beyond our control." As of now, there does not appear to be an invitation to San Diego State from a Power 5 conference.

The Aztecs seem likely to end up in the Big Twelve or Pac-12, but there's decent argument in favor of joining the American Athletic Conference if no invite from either Power Five conference comes in, or maintaining Independence in football, and joining a non-football conference in other sports (though I can't think of a fit...unless the WCC were to drop their private school only requirement for the conference).