Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations (user search)
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  Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: ?
#1
American Baptist Churches
 
#2
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
 
#3
The Episcopal Church
 
#4
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
 
#5
Presbyterian Church (USA)
 
#6
United Church of Christ
 
#7
United Methodist Church
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 48

Author Topic: Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations  (Read 4503 times)
RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,015
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« on: April 14, 2023, 04:41:10 PM »

ELCA, baby!

In reality, I wish a sort of hybrid between the ELCA and Missouri Synod Lutheran was more prominent.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2023, 11:31:17 AM »

As a Catholic, I imagine I would find the Episcopal as the best among these seven. Lutheran could be up there too.

As a Catholic, I agree.  I have been to Episcopal services, and the structure isn't much different from the Catholic Mass.  Except for the more open communion (available to all baptized Christians) for the Episcopal service and the "closed" communion (Catholics and Orthodox only) in the Mass.

I feel like I have been to a lot of Catholic weddings lately, and it is always awkward when I just can't go up for communion, haha.

On another topic, I would be curious to hear people's thoughts on which of these denominations' "Evangelical matches" should be classified as "Evangelical" or "Mainline."  For example, as an ELCA Lutheran who went to a Missouri Synod church when I was younger, I really struggle with Pew categorizing Missouri Synod as "Evangelical."  It's an old-line church which claims theological ties to Europe, it's not "born again" and zero Missouri Synod Lutherans I know would feel more of an association with a Baptist than a literal fellow Lutheran.  Like, theologically conservative should not be synomimous with Evangelical.

I'm less knowledgeable about the "Evangelical" versions of Presbyterianism or Anglicanism or Methodism, however.  My selfish motive here is I am trying to make a county map using my own classifications of Catholic-Mainline-Evangelical-Other Christian.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2023, 11:11:03 AM »

Episcopalians provided they go full Anglo-Catholic. If I’m going to be Christian I need ritual, I need organ music, I need arcane devotional practices, I need daddy (or mommy).

How much more Catholic would you reasonably expect the Episcopalians to go?  They accept the basic tenant of Protestantism that there is no man on earth whose authority on matters of the Bible could possibly supersede the Bible itself, but that is about it.

Then again, each new branch of Protestantism is pretty much "less Catholic" than the one before it, and the only services that would be jarring for a Catholic to attend would be truly contemporary evangelical services that literally reinvented the idea of what a church service is.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2023, 01:48:38 PM »

Episcopalians provided they go full Anglo-Catholic. If I’m going to be Christian I need ritual, I need organ music, I need arcane devotional practices, I need daddy (or mommy).

I was raised high-church Episcopal and served over 10 years as an acolyte so I get the role of ritual in worship. I too loved the organ as part of the service. After marriage to a New England Congregationalist I switched to the UCC, but my love of the organ remained. When our first church dissolved I helped get that church's organ donated to a local college's music department and I got a significant donation to upgrade the console of the organ at the UCC church I now attend.

I'm trying to make a county map of the US by Catholic-Mainline Protestant-Evangelical Protestant-Other Christian ... can you explain to me why it is so difficult for me to populate my category of "Congregationalist" with individual churches??  Haha, I grew up Lutheran in the Midwest so I am not knowledgeable about Congregationalists at all ... for some reason it's really confusing for me to navigate Wikipedia and find which churches should fall under this umbrella, besides the UCC.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 02:21:13 PM »

In the 20th century, the Congregational tradition in America fragmented into three different denominations. The largest of these is the United Church of Christ, which resulted from a 1957 merger with the Evangelical and Reformed Church. Congregationalists who chose not to join the United Church of Christ founded two alternative denominations: the National Association of Congregational Christian Churches and the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference.

Above is from wiki. I was wondering about that myself when I saw an old church (very fancy) that still called itself Congregational in Great Barrington.

Awesome, thank you!  Part of my problem is I downloaded full county data by individual church into Excel, and I am using a hodge-podge of methods to fill in columns for more broader categories (e.g., "Lutheran" and "Protestant - Mainline").  So, for denominations I do not know a lot about, it's kind of confusing combining what I can find on Wikipedia with the Pew Religious Landscape Survey, especially when they seem to contradict each other.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2023, 12:31:24 PM »

I find it curious that the Disciples were eventually categorized as Mainline.  I feel like you would have to literally just use a "Mainline = theologically liberal" definition (which I find problematic) to categorize them that way.  I know their church theology has changed a lot over the years, but I have a hard time counting a "Restorationist" group as "Mainline Protestant" on principle, haha.

I feel like traditional Protestantism (which "Mainline" originally attempted to describe) largely rejects the restorationist idea that "true Christianity" was lost for centuries and centuries and only these new Nineteenth Century preachers can properly show us how to worship.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2023, 05:50:07 PM »

In case it would help any hyper-partisans of Atlas, I decided to check how many Senators were members of any of these churches, haha.  I just went by Wikipedia and only put it down if they specified a church:

Episcopal Church
Bill Hagerty (R-TN)
Angus King (I-ME)
Gary Peters (D-MI)
Chris Van Hollen (D-MD)
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)


United Methodist Church
Katie Britt (R-AL)
Tom Cotton (R-AR)
John Kennedy (R-LA)
Jerry Moran (R-KS)
... also says he sometimes attends a Presbyterian church
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)


Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Joni Ernst (R-IA)
Martin Heinrich (D-NM)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)


Presbyterian Church (USA)
John Barrasso (R-WY)
Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)

Tom Carper (D-DE)

United Church of Christ
Maggie Hassan (D-NH)
Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)
POSSIBLE: Chris Murphy (D-CT)
... he identified as "Protestant" but was "raised a Congregationalist."

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Roger Marshall (R-KS)

It looks like Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) was baptized in the Episcopal Church, but I do not believe she identifies with a religion.  It also looks like Ron Paul is denominationally confused.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2023, 11:41:13 AM »

Out of curiosity, why is the American Baptist Churches mainline instead of being evangelical?

The short answer is that both terms are entirely subjective, haha.  Personally, I prefer a definition of "Evangelical" that is more or less synonymous with "born again," in which case the "Mainline" Baptists would definitely be considered "Evangelical," and the "Evangelical" (at least according to Pew) Missouri Synod Lutherans would be very clearly NOT "Evangelical" and therefore "Mainline."  I also think high church vs. low church is a better guiding principle than how liberal or conservative the pastors/ministers are.  This definition would treat "Evangelical" as the more narrowly defined term, and Protestant traditions that do not fit into being Evangelical (or Historically Black Protestant) would be "Mainline."  There can be conservative OR liberal Evangelicals AND Mainliners here.

However, some classifications effectively treat the "Seven Sisters of American Protestantism" - the seven churches in this poll - as the "Mainline Churches," and any more conservative offshoot is automatically "Evangelical."  Effectively, the openly theologically liberal Seven Sisters who cooperate with each other are "Mainline," and because the American Baptist Churches check off that category, they are therefore "Mainline" regardless of their theology, liturgy, historical roots, etc.  Given how RIDICULOUSLY liberal some of the Seven Sisters denominations have become (such as the UCC), I think this is kind of an intellectually dumb way to think about this and really inflates the number of "Evangelicals" and deflates the number of "Mainliners," but that is just my personal opinion.

To be really simplistic, the successors of the "original" big Protestant churches are considered Mainline by most people.  By this definition, every church that splits off and leaves is "Evangelical."  This not only overcounts (IMO) the number of Evangelical churches, but it also falsely categorizes an "original" Evangelical church (such as the American Baptists) as "Mainline" simply because another church (in this case the Southern Baptists first and now many more) split off from them.  I grew up Lutheran, and an obvious problem with this way of thinking is Missouri Synod Lutherans.  While they are a more conservative, smaller group than the "Mainline" ELCA, there is literally nothing "Evangelical" about them other than being conservative ... but they are extremely liturgical, they trace their origins back to Europe and they literally brag about being closer to Luther than other Lutherans, i.e., closer to Catholicism than newer Protestant groups.  I was baptized LCMS and confirmed ELCA, and I flat-out guarantee you that the vast majority of Missouri Synod Lutherans - whatever their MANY issues with the ELCA are - would be horrified at how casual a Southern Baptist service is, let alone a Pentecostal one.

... way back to your question, I am not sure how any denomination - regardless of its theology on other matters - that baptizes adults cannot be considered "Evangelical."
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RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,015
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2023, 12:50:13 PM »

In case it would help any hyper-partisans of Atlas, I decided to check how many Senators were members of any of these churches...

Follow-up for US Presidents.  Keep in mind, some of these might be predecessors to the seven listed in the poll ... for example, I believe Warren Harding was "Northern Baptist" or something like that, but it became the American Baptist Churches (USA).  Also, James K. Polk was part of the Methodist Episcopal Church, but that eventually merged into the United Methodist Church.

The Episcopal Church
George Washington (NP-VA)
James Madison (DR-VA)
James Monroe (DR-VA)

William Henry Harrison (W-OH)
John Tyler (W-VA)
Zachary Taylor (W-LA)

Franklin Pierce (D-NH)
Chester A. Arthur (R-NY)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (D-NY)
George H. W. Bush (R-TX)

Presbyterian Church in the USA
Andrew Jackson (D-TN)
James Buchanan (D-PA)
Grover Cleveland (D-NY)

Benjamin Harrison (R-IN)
Woodrow Wilson (D-NJ)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (R-KS)
Gerald Ford (R-MI)
Ronald Reagan (R-CA)


United Methodist Church
James K. Polk (D-TN)
Ulysses S. Grant (R-IL)
William McKinley (R-OH)
George W. Bush (R-TX)


American Baptist Churches (USA)
Warren G. Harding (R-OH)
Harry S. Truman (D-MO)

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
James A. Garfield (R-OH)
Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX)

United Church of Christ
Calvin Coolidge (R-MA)

Hopefully I did not miss any, lol.  Martin Van Buren and Theodore Roosevelt were both members of the Reformed Church in America, which is considered Mainline Protestant but is not one of the "Seven Sisters" in the poll.  Other Protestants include four "non-denominational" (Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes, Barack Obama and Donald Trump) and two Southern Baptists (Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton).  The remaining Presidents are either Catholic, Non-Trinitarian (i.e., Unitarian) or their religious affiliations were unclear.
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