Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations
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  Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations
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Poll
Question: ?
#1
American Baptist Churches
 
#2
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
 
#3
The Episcopal Church
 
#4
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
 
#5
Presbyterian Church (USA)
 
#6
United Church of Christ
 
#7
United Methodist Church
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 48

Author Topic: Favorite of the 7 largest US Mainline Protestant denominations  (Read 4163 times)
RINO Tom
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2023, 12:31:24 PM »

I find it curious that the Disciples were eventually categorized as Mainline.  I feel like you would have to literally just use a "Mainline = theologically liberal" definition (which I find problematic) to categorize them that way.  I know their church theology has changed a lot over the years, but I have a hard time counting a "Restorationist" group as "Mainline Protestant" on principle, haha.

I feel like traditional Protestantism (which "Mainline" originally attempted to describe) largely rejects the restorationist idea that "true Christianity" was lost for centuries and centuries and only these new Nineteenth Century preachers can properly show us how to worship.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2023, 01:33:16 PM »

I find it curious that the Disciples were eventually categorized as Mainline.  I feel like you would have to literally just use a "Mainline = theologically liberal" definition (which I find problematic) to categorize them that way.  I know their church theology has changed a lot over the years, but I have a hard time counting a "Restorationist" group as "Mainline Protestant" on principle, haha.

I feel like traditional Protestantism (which "Mainline" originally attempted to describe) largely rejects the restorationist idea that "true Christianity" was lost for centuries and centuries and only these new Nineteenth Century preachers can properly show us how to worship.

Yes, this is a good point.  I think you really need a pre-Revolutionary War connection to be considered Mainline, ideally a connection to the Reformation itself.  Methodism is even debatable, because it was originally a reform movement within the Anglicans, but ended up having a decidedly low church, rural America streak by the mid 19th century. 
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PSOL
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2023, 01:36:30 PM »

As a person on the left I have to choose Methodism, they and the quakers and Seventh-Day Adventists did a lot of pushing for major reform before the 1870s and remain more socially conscious than other sects
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2023, 03:39:12 PM »

ELCA or Episcopalian.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2023, 05:50:07 PM »

In case it would help any hyper-partisans of Atlas, I decided to check how many Senators were members of any of these churches, haha.  I just went by Wikipedia and only put it down if they specified a church:

Episcopal Church
Bill Hagerty (R-TN)
Angus King (I-ME)
Gary Peters (D-MI)
Chris Van Hollen (D-MD)
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)


United Methodist Church
Katie Britt (R-AL)
Tom Cotton (R-AR)
John Kennedy (R-LA)
Jerry Moran (R-KS)
... also says he sometimes attends a Presbyterian church
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)


Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Joni Ernst (R-IA)
Martin Heinrich (D-NM)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)


Presbyterian Church (USA)
John Barrasso (R-WY)
Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)

Tom Carper (D-DE)

United Church of Christ
Maggie Hassan (D-NH)
Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)
POSSIBLE: Chris Murphy (D-CT)
... he identified as "Protestant" but was "raised a Congregationalist."

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Roger Marshall (R-KS)

It looks like Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) was baptized in the Episcopal Church, but I do not believe she identifies with a religion.  It also looks like Ron Paul is denominationally confused.
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Continential
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2023, 06:26:50 PM »

Out of curiosity, why is the American Baptist Churches mainline instead of being evangelical?
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2023, 11:41:13 AM »

Out of curiosity, why is the American Baptist Churches mainline instead of being evangelical?

The short answer is that both terms are entirely subjective, haha.  Personally, I prefer a definition of "Evangelical" that is more or less synonymous with "born again," in which case the "Mainline" Baptists would definitely be considered "Evangelical," and the "Evangelical" (at least according to Pew) Missouri Synod Lutherans would be very clearly NOT "Evangelical" and therefore "Mainline."  I also think high church vs. low church is a better guiding principle than how liberal or conservative the pastors/ministers are.  This definition would treat "Evangelical" as the more narrowly defined term, and Protestant traditions that do not fit into being Evangelical (or Historically Black Protestant) would be "Mainline."  There can be conservative OR liberal Evangelicals AND Mainliners here.

However, some classifications effectively treat the "Seven Sisters of American Protestantism" - the seven churches in this poll - as the "Mainline Churches," and any more conservative offshoot is automatically "Evangelical."  Effectively, the openly theologically liberal Seven Sisters who cooperate with each other are "Mainline," and because the American Baptist Churches check off that category, they are therefore "Mainline" regardless of their theology, liturgy, historical roots, etc.  Given how RIDICULOUSLY liberal some of the Seven Sisters denominations have become (such as the UCC), I think this is kind of an intellectually dumb way to think about this and really inflates the number of "Evangelicals" and deflates the number of "Mainliners," but that is just my personal opinion.

To be really simplistic, the successors of the "original" big Protestant churches are considered Mainline by most people.  By this definition, every church that splits off and leaves is "Evangelical."  This not only overcounts (IMO) the number of Evangelical churches, but it also falsely categorizes an "original" Evangelical church (such as the American Baptists) as "Mainline" simply because another church (in this case the Southern Baptists first and now many more) split off from them.  I grew up Lutheran, and an obvious problem with this way of thinking is Missouri Synod Lutherans.  While they are a more conservative, smaller group than the "Mainline" ELCA, there is literally nothing "Evangelical" about them other than being conservative ... but they are extremely liturgical, they trace their origins back to Europe and they literally brag about being closer to Luther than other Lutherans, i.e., closer to Catholicism than newer Protestant groups.  I was baptized LCMS and confirmed ELCA, and I flat-out guarantee you that the vast majority of Missouri Synod Lutherans - whatever their MANY issues with the ELCA are - would be horrified at how casual a Southern Baptist service is, let alone a Pentecostal one.

... way back to your question, I am not sure how any denomination - regardless of its theology on other matters - that baptizes adults cannot be considered "Evangelical."
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2023, 12:50:13 PM »

In case it would help any hyper-partisans of Atlas, I decided to check how many Senators were members of any of these churches...

Follow-up for US Presidents.  Keep in mind, some of these might be predecessors to the seven listed in the poll ... for example, I believe Warren Harding was "Northern Baptist" or something like that, but it became the American Baptist Churches (USA).  Also, James K. Polk was part of the Methodist Episcopal Church, but that eventually merged into the United Methodist Church.

The Episcopal Church
George Washington (NP-VA)
James Madison (DR-VA)
James Monroe (DR-VA)

William Henry Harrison (W-OH)
John Tyler (W-VA)
Zachary Taylor (W-LA)

Franklin Pierce (D-NH)
Chester A. Arthur (R-NY)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (D-NY)
George H. W. Bush (R-TX)

Presbyterian Church in the USA
Andrew Jackson (D-TN)
James Buchanan (D-PA)
Grover Cleveland (D-NY)

Benjamin Harrison (R-IN)
Woodrow Wilson (D-NJ)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (R-KS)
Gerald Ford (R-MI)
Ronald Reagan (R-CA)


United Methodist Church
James K. Polk (D-TN)
Ulysses S. Grant (R-IL)
William McKinley (R-OH)
George W. Bush (R-TX)


American Baptist Churches (USA)
Warren G. Harding (R-OH)
Harry S. Truman (D-MO)

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
James A. Garfield (R-OH)
Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX)

United Church of Christ
Calvin Coolidge (R-MA)

Hopefully I did not miss any, lol.  Martin Van Buren and Theodore Roosevelt were both members of the Reformed Church in America, which is considered Mainline Protestant but is not one of the "Seven Sisters" in the poll.  Other Protestants include four "non-denominational" (Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes, Barack Obama and Donald Trump) and two Southern Baptists (Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton).  The remaining Presidents are either Catholic, Non-Trinitarian (i.e., Unitarian) or their religious affiliations were unclear.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2023, 10:49:47 PM »

I find it curious that the Disciples were eventually categorized as Mainline.  I feel like you would have to literally just use a "Mainline = theologically liberal" definition (which I find problematic) to categorize them that way.  I know their church theology has changed a lot over the years, but I have a hard time counting a "Restorationist" group as "Mainline Protestant" on principle, haha.

I feel like traditional Protestantism (which "Mainline" originally attempted to describe) largely rejects the restorationist idea that "true Christianity" was lost for centuries and centuries and only these new Nineteenth Century preachers can properly show us how to worship.

Looking at the etymology, the best definition of the "Main Line" are the denominations common to the tony streetcar suburbs of the Gilded Age:  the churches of the Industrial Era professional class that had social/political clout and "Old Money" panache.  The Disciples certainly fit this description.  Go to the downtowns of most large- or medium-sized cities on the East Coast or the Midwest and you will find an old Disciples congregation dating to the latter-half of the 19th century (or nowadays more likely just the building, but more on that later.)  

Of course, there is some geographic variety:  the Disciples and their more conservative brethren, the Churches of Christ, are most common in a "belt" stretching from OH/IN/IL across the Upper South and into the Lower Plains of KS, OK and TX.  These "Christians" were the leading church body in many counties across the region back in 2000.

As someone else posted, the definition of "Main Line = traditional Protestantism" is pretty awkward for groups like the Methodists but it also over-emphasizes descent from or connection to established European churches.  This seems inappropriate for a concept as uniquely American as the "Main Line."  But I also don't see the rationale in placing Restorationism outside "traditional Protestantism."  Reformed theologians like Bucer and Bullinger stressed primitive forms of church governance and Christian practice from the very beginning (i.e., the basis of Restorationism.)  

The American Restoration Movement in which the Disciples originate had concurrent emphases on primitivism and ecumenism.  Two independent movements, one led by Barton Stone and the other by a father-son duo of Presbyterian ministers Thomas and Alexander Campbell, were united around these ideas in 1832.  There was an eventual split between the congregations stressing primitivism (the "Churches of Christ") and those focusing on Christian freedom and ecumenism (the "Christian Churches.")  Some of these Christian Churches later adopt a denominational structure and move in a decidedly progressive direction, formally establishing the Disciples of Christ in 1968.  

And, of course, another major factor tying the Disciples to the rest of the Main Line is its decline.  It has lost almost 50% of its members since 2000 (690k to 350k), which is the steepest decline for any of the "Seven Sisters" during that time period.  The Christian Church I attended in Athens, GA (est. 1876) lost so many members and was in such financial trouble that it sold off its stained glass.  It's a pretty open question at this point if the Disciples can even survive as an independent denomination moving forward.  They've been in full communion with the UCC since 1989, so an eventual merger seems like a distinct possibility.  
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2023, 01:32:17 PM »

In case it would help any hyper-partisans of Atlas, I decided to check how many Senators were members of any of these churches...

Follow-up for US Presidents.  Keep in mind, some of these might be predecessors to the seven listed in the poll ... for example, I believe Warren Harding was "Northern Baptist" or something like that, but it became the American Baptist Churches (USA).  Also, James K. Polk was part of the Methodist Episcopal Church, but that eventually merged into the United Methodist Church.

The Episcopal Church
George Washington (NP-VA)
James Madison (DR-VA)
James Monroe (DR-VA)

William Henry Harrison (W-OH)
John Tyler (W-VA)
Zachary Taylor (W-LA)

Franklin Pierce (D-NH)
Chester A. Arthur (R-NY)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (D-NY)
George H. W. Bush (R-TX)

Presbyterian Church in the USA
Andrew Jackson (D-TN)
James Buchanan (D-PA)
Grover Cleveland (D-NY)

Benjamin Harrison (R-IN)
Woodrow Wilson (D-NJ)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (R-KS)
Gerald Ford (R-MI)
Ronald Reagan (R-CA)


United Methodist Church
James K. Polk (D-TN)
Ulysses S. Grant (R-IL)
William McKinley (R-OH)
George W. Bush (R-TX)


American Baptist Churches (USA)
Warren G. Harding (R-OH)
Harry S. Truman (D-MO)

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
James A. Garfield (R-OH)
Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX)

United Church of Christ
Calvin Coolidge (R-MA)

Hopefully I did not miss any, lol.  Martin Van Buren and Theodore Roosevelt were both members of the Reformed Church in America, which is considered Mainline Protestant but is not one of the "Seven Sisters" in the poll.  Other Protestants include four "non-denominational" (Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes, Barack Obama and Donald Trump) and two Southern Baptists (Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton).  The remaining Presidents are either Catholic, Non-Trinitarian (i.e., Unitarian) or their religious affiliations were unclear.

The non-correlation between which denominations are known for being more liberal/conservative and the political beliefs of the presidents they elected is notable. 
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