SR 113-35: Condemning Ayacucho Massacre Resolution (Passed)
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  SR 113-35: Condemning Ayacucho Massacre Resolution (Passed)
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Author Topic: SR 113-35: Condemning Ayacucho Massacre Resolution (Passed)  (Read 1134 times)
West_Midlander
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2023, 11:44:10 AM »

It's not like Castillo isn't a criminal given that he attempted a self-coup. Regardless of left or right, it's inappropriate, undemocratic, and unconstitutional, and calling for his release is taking at least a mild stance in his favor, in addition to rebuking the constitutional, but also troubling, current regime in that country.

Also, if we took the same stance as this amendment proposes to favor a rightist regime it would accurately be termed Atlasian imperialism.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2023, 12:04:35 PM »

A vote on the Laki Amendment is now open until Friday at noon eastern. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2023, 12:50:46 PM »

It's not like Castillo isn't a criminal given that he attempted a self-coup. Regardless of left or right, it's inappropriate, undemocratic, and unconstitutional, and calling for his release is taking at least a mild stance in his favor, in addition to rebuking the constitutional, but also troubling, current regime in that country.

Also, if we took the same stance as this amendment proposes to favor a rightist regime it would accurately be termed Atlasian imperialism.

I strongly disagree.

I'm not going to start over the discussion how to interpret Castillo's actions, and neither do I approve them. Given what we know now, we know that the self coup was a desperate attempt to prevent what would follow, and that's what we all know and what would have happened regardless.

Calling for his release is important to maintain election integrity in particular if you call for free and fair elections, banning one of your opponents isn't a good start with that. It would also remove concerns of the former president being held hostage, intimidated, treated badly and remove opportunity for him to be extradited to a foreign country which is his right as a politician. It's essential in doing that.

You cannot be "taking no stance", continue to support a president whose actions are being condemned, in particular the military violence and the massacres that smell to genocidal practices, given they target indigenous Peruvian people. We would be the first to condemn them if Iran or Palestina did it, because at the end of the day we are biased people and we need to recognise that. Taking no stance is an utopia, it's like communism. It doesn't work. It does not exist. You can try to mend bridges and take mild stances, but inaction is an action too. What if you took no action to climate change, you will be criticized, even if you would defend yourself by seeking a balanced and moderate approach to the issue and problem. But this is turning out to be a philosophical debate.

What I wanted to say is that the act is as neutral as it can be, given the senate does not recognise Castillo as president either anymore, we just ask for his rights to be restored again, given you need to create conditions where fair & free elections can take place in and locking up political opponents is no good way in doing that.

Quote
Also, if we took the same stance as this amendment proposes to favor a rightist regime it would accurately be termed Atlasian imperialism.

I don't call it imperialism. It isn't even remotely. It's not like any of us are soon being in Peru fighting the regime or that we have any interest in Peru. It is far from imperialist, and we have to recognise Atlasia's role in international politics. Being anti-imperialist doesn't equal not engaging in diplomacy. I'm a member of Peace, let's be fair, we know that we stand for imperialism, but I also do stand for good, reasonable and peaceful diplomacy. Diplomacy is the way one can achieve things and is important in ensuring good economic times are ahead of us. Trade plays a vital role. We also care about the wellbeing of people, in all countries. It is our right to take a diplomatic stance.

In fact, i'm gonna turn the tables and accuse others of appeasement politics. And I see possible appeasement of others, where they don't deserve as threatening to the stability of Atlasia and to the world in general. It would also undermine our credibility in doing diplomacy with other nations, in particular if we are selective about appeasing and taking diplomatic actions.

I believe what I propose we do is the good way, not radical and i already compromised and changed the draft version of the act accordingly after one amendment passed.

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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2023, 12:52:32 PM »

Aye
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Saint Milei
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« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2023, 06:40:10 PM »

Nay
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West_Midlander
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2023, 06:04:25 AM »

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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2023, 10:27:59 AM »

Nay
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2023, 10:28:40 AM »

Abstain
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Enduro
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2023, 05:28:16 PM »

Giving that I'm not well versed in peruvian politics, I'll be voting abstain.
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PPT Spiral
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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2023, 11:59:57 PM »

Aye
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2023, 12:26:25 PM »

By a vote of 2-3-2-11 Amendment fails.
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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2023, 12:52:13 PM »

Proposing amendment, proposing a different solution to the Castillo question, in a way that he can no longer influence Peruvian politics in his home country.

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To condemn the violence in Peru



Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled,

Quote
Section I. Title

1. This bill may be known as the Resolution to condemn the Ayacucho Massacre.

Section II. Content
1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns the use of violence in Peru and specifically condemns the Ayacucho Massacre that took place on December the fifteenth in Peru. The Senate of Atlasia also condemns the Juliaca Massacre that took place on January the ninth in Peru.
2. The Senate of Atlasia expresses their condolescences with the victims of the Peruvian protests and both the Ayacucho and Juliaca Massacres.
3. As a consequence The Senate of Atlasia will expel all Peruvian diplomats from the Republic of Atlasia and Peruvian-Atlasian diplomatic relations will be on hold until further notice.
4. The Senate of Atlasia demands the extradition of former president Pedro Castillo and his family to the Republic of Atlasia in order to protect their safety, but where at arrival they'll be given a travel ban to Peru.
5.4. The Senate of Atlasia encourages early elections to take place in order to stop the violence and create stability in Peru. These should be free and fair and according to international standards to ensure the integrity of the election.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2023, 01:09:30 PM »

24 hours to object.
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Utah Neolib
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« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2023, 12:00:50 AM »

Why should he be extradited here? Everything else I agree with though.
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Utah Neolib
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« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2023, 12:20:53 AM »

Proposing amendment, proposing a different solution to the Castillo question, in a way that he can no longer influence Peruvian politics in his home country.

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To condemn the violence in Peru



Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled,

Quote
Section I. Title

1. This bill may be known as the Resolution to condemn the Ayacucho Massacre.

Section II. Content
1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns the use of violence in Peru and specifically condemns the Ayacucho Massacre that took place on December the fifteenth in Peru. The Senate of Atlasia also condemns the Juliaca Massacre that took place on January the ninth in Peru.
2. The Senate of Atlasia expresses their condolescences with the victims of the Peruvian protests and both the Ayacucho and Juliaca Massacres.
3. As a consequence The Senate of Atlasia will expel all Peruvian diplomats from the Republic of Atlasia and Peruvian-Atlasian diplomatic relations will be on hold until further notice.
5.4. The Senate of Atlasia encourages early elections to take place in order to stop the violence and create stability in Peru. These should be free and fair and according to international standards to ensure the integrity of the election.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2023, 05:28:17 AM »

24 hours to object.
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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2023, 07:10:22 AM »

Friendly and withdrawing my amendment in favor of UNL's.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2023, 07:16:19 AM »

Amendment is adopted.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2023, 09:16:09 PM »

So are we all in agreement now?
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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2023, 12:35:27 PM »
« Edited: February 07, 2023, 01:08:57 PM by Senator Laki »

Requesting amendment.

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To condemn the violence in Peru



Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled,

Quote
Section I. Title

1. This bill may be known as the Resolution to condemn the Ayacucho Massacre.

Section II. Content
1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns the use of violence in Peru and specifically condemns the Ayacucho Massacre that took place on December the fifteenth in Peru. The Senate of Atlasia also condemns the Juliaca Massacre that took place on January the ninth in Peru.
2. The Senate of Atlasia expresses their condolescences with the victims of the Peruvian protests and both the Ayacucho and Juliaca Massacres
3. As a consequence The Senate of Atlasia will expel all Peruvian diplomats from the Republic of Atlasia and Peruvian-Atlasian diplomatic relations will be on hold until further notice.
4. The Senate of Atlasia requests the extradition of former president Pedro Castillo and his family to the Republic of Atlasia in order to protect their safety, but where at arrival they'll be given a travel ban to Peru.
5. The Senate of Atlasia encourages early elections to take place in order to stop the violence and create stability in Peru. These should be free and fair and according to international standards to ensure the integrity of the election.

This would not allow him & his family to play an active political role. What it would do though is ensure his life & health would be safe, because I entrust Atlasian authorities far more than Peruvian ones to ensure the safety of the former president.
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GM Team Member and Senator WB
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2023, 01:03:22 PM »

I'm more ok with this amendment. Only thing I'd maybe change is "demand" to "request" since it sounds a bit aggressive, but I'm fine either way.
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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2023, 01:09:09 PM »

I'm more ok with this amendment. Only thing I'd maybe change is "demand" to "request" since it sounds a bit aggressive, but I'm fine either way.

Friendly to suggestion, edited it in.
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Liminal Trans Girl
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« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2023, 01:33:56 PM »

We should also request a change to the document that makes it easy to try things like this
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2023, 04:05:35 PM »

24 hours to object to Lakis Amendment.
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West_Midlander
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2023, 04:20:49 PM »

I don't know if it's our place to shield a wannabe dictator.

I object since I think the full Senate should vote on this although I will likely vote present.
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