Why are white liberals the most far left group of voters ideology wise?
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  Why are white liberals the most far left group of voters ideology wise?
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Author Topic: Why are white liberals the most far left group of voters ideology wise?  (Read 582 times)
Cyrusman
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« on: January 24, 2023, 04:31:07 PM »

White liberals despite not voting Democrat at the rate that blacks do are ideology the most liberal voting group. Black voters may vote Democrat in higher percentages, but ideology wise, many black voters are still "conservative" or at least more so than white liberals. The same is not said for white liberals. They are by far the farthest left, most woke group and are not really conservative in any category.

Why is this? Basically where does this step from, start from, develop from?
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2023, 05:59:07 PM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.
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Cyrusman
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2023, 07:00:19 PM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.

 I don't think black liberals ideology wise are as "liberal". A decent amount have somewhat religious views too.
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Babeuf
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2023, 08:10:27 PM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.

 I don't think black liberals ideology wise are as "liberal". A decent amount have somewhat religious views too.
Many of the people you are talking about wouldn’t self identify as liberals, thus the comment above. The comparison would then not be apples to apples.

I’m not sure if there is much difference between self described liberals (or progressives) of different racial groups, although there certainly may be. Interested in seeing research.
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2023, 08:38:12 PM »
« Edited: January 24, 2023, 11:42:40 PM by King of Kensington »

White liberals despite not voting Democrat at the rate that blacks do are ideology the most liberal voting group. Black voters may vote Democrat in higher percentages, but ideology wise, many black voters are still "conservative" or at least more so than white liberals. The same is not said for white liberals. They are by far the farthest left, most woke group and are not really conservative in any category.

Why is this? Basically where does this step from, start from, develop from?

The Black D electorate represents virtually the entire spectrum of Black opinion, while the white D represent the 40% or so that are most left of center.  
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pikachu
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2023, 10:31:22 PM »

My intuition/experience is that nonwhite lefties tend to be the left of white lefties even if white lefties are to the left of nonwhites as a whole. I think if you went through the most progressive members of the Dem caucus, they'd mostly be nonwhite?   
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ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2023, 10:38:59 PM »

I think there's a certain type of ultra-progressive who is disproportionately likely to be a white female.  That would be the types who get a degree in gender studies from a liberal arts college and like to go to abortion rallies.  That's far from the whole spectrum of progressive opinion, obviously, though.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2023, 04:12:44 AM »

I think we really need to dispel this myth that Black voters are largely conservative just because they’re not as left-wing as the median Oberlin undergrad.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2023, 07:06:36 AM »

I think we really need to dispel this myth that Black voters are largely conservative just because they’re not as left-wing as the median Oberlin undergrad.

Not to mention that there are a non-negligible number of ultra-liberal college student/graduate black 20-somethings, too.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2023, 09:44:19 AM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.

 I don't think black liberals ideology wise are as "liberal". A decent amount have somewhat religious views too.

Your religious views don’t automatically have a bearing on your politics…?
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Secretary of State Liberal Hack
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2023, 10:13:55 AM »
« Edited: January 25, 2023, 07:48:50 PM by Secretary of State Liberal Hack »

I also wouldn't be shocked if Asian liberals are to the left of white liberals.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2023, 12:41:10 PM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.

 I don't think black liberals ideology wise are as "liberal". A decent amount have somewhat religious views too.

Your religious views don’t automatically have a bearing on your politics…?
If religious beliefs are strong, they generally have an influence on how you see the world. However, that influence isn't inherently conservative. Many left wing movements of the past were heavily influenced and driven by religion(eg abolition of slavery)
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BRTD
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2023, 01:27:08 PM »

Imagine if you did a study where you got a representative sample of black voters, gave them all a survey and then ranked them from most liberal to most conservative, and then divided that ranking into quartiles. A majority of all four quartiles would be Democrats, including the most conservative.

Now imagine you did the same for a representative group of white voters. The Democrats would only win the two more liberal quartiles, and there'd be virtually none in the most conservative one.

And then if you mix the Democrats from both groups together and ranked them, you'd as a result have disproportionately more black voters on the more conservative end as a result, even if the median black voter is to the left of the median white voter.

I think we really need to dispel this myth that Black voters are largely conservative just because they’re not as left-wing as the median Oberlin undergrad.

Not to mention that there are a non-negligible number of ultra-liberal college student/graduate black 20-somethings, too.

I think this is kind of an implementation of the prosecutor's fallacy. The percentage of people who go to colleges like Oberlin period, white, black, Asian, etc. is quite low. So of any racial group, the percentage who attended such a college is still going to make a near neglible percentage of voters. Most college educated voters are ones who went to mainstream state universities.
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The Free North
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2023, 01:56:06 PM »

Copious amounts of privilege (read: no skin in the game), and exposure to nuance without having the critical thinking abilities to maintain perspective both locally and historically.


Hence, idiocy like: 'Lets defund the police but also, someone broke into my car last week and I went to the police station to report it.' Or any sort of rage about colonialism/patriarchy, etc.


A solution would be to force many of these people to live in, say, Managua or Nouakchott for a short period of time, before returning them to the recesses of Palo Alto or Northern Virginia.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2023, 02:07:00 PM »

I'm not sure if black liberals are all that different from white liberals.

 I don't think black liberals ideology wise are as "liberal". A decent amount have somewhat religious views too.

Your religious views don’t automatically have a bearing on your politics…?
If religious beliefs are strong, they generally have an influence on how you see the world. However, that influence isn't inherently conservative. Many left wing movements of the past were heavily influenced and driven by religion(eg abolition of slavery)

Cringe use of "left wing" for abolition of slavery, as if it wasn't a movement that drew support from liberals and conservatives of its day depending on other factors, but what I should have said is this:

Your religious views don't automatically have a bearing on where you fall on our modern construct of the political compass.
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BRTD
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2023, 02:29:04 PM »

For an example of what the OP is talking about, see the breakdown of the vote on Minneapolis' Question 2:


(Sorry about Michael Tracey but he had the be data showing the vote and racial makeup.)

I bet it narrowly passed amongst white voters in the city but failed overall 56-44.

(BTW that light green precinct on the west end is a hot spot of gentrification that I guarantee is much less black during the vote than it was in the racial map.)
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pikachu
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2023, 03:38:29 PM »

I also wouldn't be shocked if Asian liberals are on-part of even to the left of white liberals.

Yeah, also looking beyond white/black voters, it’s worth remembering that Bernie 2020 won Latinos in a lot of states.
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khuzifenq
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2023, 03:52:45 PM »

There's an argument to be made that Non-Hispanic White liberals are to the left of self-identified liberals from every other ancestry group on certain social or cultural issues that NHW libs/lefties are more likely to prioritize. But this doesn't mean they're holistically further left on a one- or even two-dimensional spectrum.
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jamestroll
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2023, 04:01:47 PM »

WHITE liberals can be annoying in the sense that they fight for social justice, but many of them you would NEVER see walk in a black neighborhood at night.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 04:11:56 PM »

Copious amounts of privilege (read: no skin in the game), and exposure to nuance without having the critical thinking abilities to maintain perspective both locally and historically.


Hence, idiocy like: 'Lets defund the police but also, someone broke into my car last week and I went to the police station to report it.' Or any sort of rage about colonialism/patriarchy, etc.


A solution would be to force many of these people to live in, say, Managua or Nouakchott for a short period of time, before returning them to the recesses of Palo Alto or Northern Virginia.

Exactly this and it's frankly hypocrisy.

From my experience, it feels like a lot of them try to gain a sense of superiority through the social justice lens without critically thinking about the real problems or even working with the people they claim to be supporting.

White liberals is a huge category though, and I think these are just a small but quite vocal minority. People of just about any ideology are always going to have small levels of hypocrisy and holes, I think ideally the best people are those who are willing to listen, learn, and grow to form nuanced positions on a variety of issues, reguardless of how far "left" or "right" those positions may be.
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Forumlurker
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« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2023, 07:29:49 PM »

Copious amounts of privilege (read: no skin in the game), and exposure to nuance without having the critical thinking abilities to maintain perspective both locally and historically.


Hence, idiocy like: 'Lets defund the police but also, someone broke into my car last week and I went to the police station to report it.' Or any sort of rage about colonialism/patriarchy, etc.


A solution would be to force many of these people to live in, say, Managua or Nouakchott for a short period of time, before returning them to the recesses of Palo Alto or Northern Virginia.
And how much time have you spent in Nouakchott?
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GALeftist
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« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2023, 07:36:35 PM »
« Edited: January 25, 2023, 07:42:51 PM by GALeftist »

Copious amounts of privilege (read: no skin in the game), and exposure to nuance without having the critical thinking abilities to maintain perspective both locally and historically.


Hence, idiocy like: 'Lets defund the police but also, someone broke into my car last week and I went to the police station to report it.' Or any sort of rage about colonialism/patriarchy, etc.


A solution would be to force many of these people to live in, say, Managua or Nouakchott for a short period of time, before returning them to the recesses of Palo Alto or Northern Virginia.

Protests against colonialism and patriarchy: famously exclusive to white, affluent areas.

Also, the question doesn't really make sense. Why is this white liberal more liberal than this black liberal? Well, because they are. If the argument is that like the modal white liberal is more liberal than the modal liberal of any other race, though, I object. As others have said, I do not think that the average member of the leftmost 25% of white voters, for example, is farther left than the average member of the leftmost 25% of Hispanic voters or whatever. I think this perception is mostly an artifact of there being relatively fewer white Democrats than nonwhite Democrats.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2023, 09:28:12 PM »

As someone who is white and liberal, I think it has to do with the fact that generally there's a specific reason why a white person is liberal. By "default", white people are inclined to vote R, the same way black people vote Democratic by "default" and most who don't have very specific reasons. It could be simillar to how people tend to leave a church they were born into only if they specific *dislike* the church or have a problem, by default, they are fine with the church and hence stick with it.

I think Atlas has to remember, for every super engaged person with a thorough understanding of the issues, there's at least several people who just vote just because.
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Abdullah
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« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2023, 11:19:31 PM »

I think Atlas has to remember, for every super engaged person with a thorough understanding of the issues, there's at least several people who just vote just because.

Based
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