Is the South seceding? And does the federal executive/legislative branches support it?

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

We have no need to listen to Adam Griffin.

[fhtagn]

[Continential]

I don’t understand the point of a region having special powers over the other two when Atlasia is a game and when it would disturb the balance of power between the regions and the federal government.

I am not opposed to secession as a concept in theory but it would lead to people creating two characters - for instance one in the seceded region and another in Atlasia or elections would easily be won by the left or right.

[Joseph Cao]

While this is uncharted territory and I cannot predict anything with complete certainty, I think I can confidently say Yankee and Cao both have huge incentives to make it be known at least privately that independence is off the table, and that greater autonomy is clearly something that the South's regional leadership can at least credibly claim a mandate of some kind for. But that does not mean that it will inevitably happen. Terra incognita, everyone!

I've been hearing whispers to the contrary with regard to our current President. Granted, it is hearsay and I cannot speak for him personally, so I welcome public forum clarification on the matter.

Yankee and I have been dueling for more than a decade, but we do have a core of commonalities and I feel confident in saying that the Past, Present and/or Future King of the Federalist Party would never endorse outright succession under any circumstances.

I am literally on a bus right now and will be back tonight but was informed I needed to respond to this.

“Whispers” about me are grade-A trash unless they come from my keyboard directly. I don't plant rumors, I don't plot, I don't scheme, I don't talk about people behind their backs, I tell people when I am thinking of something, and I don't breach whatever trust people put in me. I am also the elected leader of a united nation and I intend to make sure it stays that way.

As this has been a fearfully busy few days it should also be said that I have no objection to “opening negotiations” in case YT is thinking of blowing up my DMs further, but number one, you’ll have to wait a bit longer, and number two, no independence, just putting that out right now. The concept makes no sense to me and I do not intend to cross that line. More to come!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

1. I wrote in Muaddib because I saw he wrote himself in and I felt obligated to express my support for him because it is a post he has wanted for a long time. The last conversations I had with YT were firm about his desire to avoid the game bc of real life objectives, a decision I did felt obligated to support out of respect for his wishes. While that certainly may have shifted, there has been little to no communication in this regards towards me.

These were the two things running through my mind when I made my vote.

2. Under no circumstance will I favor secession or Southern independence. I feel like this vote should have been more clearly noted and not buried near the bottom of a list of rather mundane referendums.

[Adam Griffin]

I am literally on a bus right now and will be back tonight but was informed I needed to respond to this.

“Whispers” about me are grade-A trash unless they come from my keyboard directly. I don't plant rumors, I don't plot, I don't scheme, I don't talk about people behind their backs, I tell people when I am thinking of something, and I don't breach whatever trust people put in me. I am also the elected leader of a united nation and I intend to make sure it stays that way.

As this has been a fearfully busy few days it should also be said that I have no objection to “opening negotiations” in case YT is thinking of blowing up my DMs further, but number one, you’ll have to wait a bit longer, and number two, no independence, just putting that out right now. The concept makes no sense to me and I do not intend to cross that line. More to come!

This is somewhat/tentatively reassuring.

I hope everything is alright? It's been a bit since you've posted the above. I am sure many of us will be happy to hear your elaboration on this matter!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I generally agree, but I also will say that unless either the federal legislative + executive branches have ruled on a matter (or two-thirds of the federal legislature + two-thirds of the regions subsequently vote similarly), virtually any matter is left to individual regions unless found unconstitutional by the courts.

True, but at the same time that creates the dynamic or perhaps expectation that any range of playable actions exists on "until some activist majority in Nyman decides all of the sudden to handle federally" basis. Slow drip centralism, as I have described it in the past.

This was in large measure a major motivator of the 2015 reset for example, though it tied in with generalized concerns about just how far afield the game had diverged from real life so as to create a barrier to entry for new people as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm not exactly opposed to regions being able to be independent, but that wouldn't be good for the game given we have 150 registered people, and a lot of them don't actively participate. The numbers aren't simply there to have a right-wing dominated Atlasia game and a left wing dominated Atlasia game. It would also remove competition from the game, resulting in an Atlasia where the dominant left wing party always win an election, and an Atlasia where the dominant right wing party always win an election.

Fundamentally it also ignores what this game has been about for near 80% of its existence. The struggle against the other side. Yes, scoring wins matters in the policy arena too, but without the competition its over. Whenever any particular group, isolated in their echo chambers, gets to thinking that absent the other side, they can just tick off the wish list, very quickly it becomes apparent that once the wish list is gone through there is no purpose in playing the game anymore. The left has made this mistake numerous times.

Ironically you could argue that it has been the source of the damage to regional powers and influence in previous contexts, since often the wish list on that side involves a lot of centralist action to address various issues.

Tribalism matters more than policy, and many times I have lamented that fact because of the negative impacts on the government side of things, but the core this game really is the contest between the parties, always has been. Everything else, is just a side effect of that happening. For example, our difficulty in recent years with officeholder activity and engagement of players and such, stems from the shifts in how that contest takes place, the reliance on ever less active voters maintained through the connectedness of discord, who otherwise would have dropped away.

[Wisconsin+17]

When one side can actively ban other participants in active discussion of policymaking, the game is effectively broken.

Glad to see that the South has finally seceded so that we can actually work on substantive policy matters without having to be overruled by the majority that sees 'winning' as the only point of this game.

Some of our best times that I remember serving is working together to craft interesting policies that would have significant in-game impacts. That's part of the fun, in seeing what cool things we *can* do. One side would rather stomp out all opposition to their policies by increasingly fencing off things that they believe are 'no longer debatable'.

If you believe that there are topics that cannot be discussed in Atlasia, fair enough, but there needs to be open discussion. If you don't like that the game might talk about some very difficult issues, then why are you here? To be another body that 'votes the right way'?

[Adam Griffin]

When one side can actively ban other participants in active discussion of policymaking, the game is effectively broken.

Glad to see that the South has finally seceded so that we can actually work on substantive policy matters without having to be overruled by the majority that sees 'winning' as the only point of this game.

Some of our best times that I remember serving is working together to craft interesting policies that would have significant in-game impacts. That's part of the fun, in seeing what cool things we *can* do. One side would rather stomp out all opposition to their policies by increasingly fencing off things that they believe are 'no longer debatable'.

If you believe that there are topics that cannot be discussed in Atlasia, fair enough, but there needs to be open discussion. If you don't like that the game might talk about some very difficult issues, then why are you here? To be another body that 'votes the right way'?

I see the current Southern Governor liked your response stating that the South has seceded. Can we get clarification from him on whether he considers the South has in fact seceded from Atlasia?

[Sirius_]

When one side can actively ban other participants in active discussion of policymaking, the game is effectively broken.

Glad to see that the South has finally seceded so that we can actually work on substantive policy matters without having to be overruled by the majority that sees 'winning' as the only point of this game.

Some of our best times that I remember serving is working together to craft interesting policies that would have significant in-game impacts. That's part of the fun, in seeing what cool things we *can* do. One side would rather stomp out all opposition to their policies by increasingly fencing off things that they believe are 'no longer debatable'.

If you believe that there are topics that cannot be discussed in Atlasia, fair enough, but there needs to be open discussion. If you don't like that the game might talk about some very difficult issues, then why are you here? To be another body that 'votes the right way'?

I see the current Southern Governor liked your response stating that the South has seceded. Can we get clarification from him on whether he considers the South has in fact seceded from Atlasia?

Read his executive orders, that'll tell you everything.

[Sirius_]

When one side can actively ban other participants in active discussion of policymaking, the game is effectively broken.

Glad to see that the South has finally seceded so that we can actually work on substantive policy matters without having to be overruled by the majority that sees 'winning' as the only point of this game.

Some of our best times that I remember serving is working together to craft interesting policies that would have significant in-game impacts. That's part of the fun, in seeing what cool things we *can* do. One side would rather stomp out all opposition to their policies by increasingly fencing off things that they believe are 'no longer debatable'.

If you believe that there are topics that cannot be discussed in Atlasia, fair enough, but there needs to be open discussion. If you don't like that the game might talk about some very difficult issues, then why are you here? To be another body that 'votes the right way'?

I see the current Southern Governor liked your response stating that the South has seceded. Can we get clarification from him on whether he considers the South has in fact seceded from Atlasia?

Read his executive orders, that'll tell you everything.

I suppose you need to know what assumptions make someone.

I don't know this one seemed pretty explicit

EXECUTIVE ORDER 009

WHEREAS, The Southern Governor is the functioning head of the executive branch in the Southern Region.

WHEREAS, the Southern Governor is the representative of the Southern Region and the highest authority in the South that speaks on its citizenry.

WHEREAS, the Chief Executive of the South’s primary function of office to advocate for the decisions of the citizens of the South.

THEREFORE, pursuant to the powers and authorizations granted to me by the Southern Constitution, I Governor Young Texan do hereby order:
1: All institutions under the purview of the executive branch to recognize the South voted for independence.
2: All institutions under the purview of the executive branch will hereby recognize the Governor of the South as the sole authority in their operations.
3: All references to any federal authority in southern-owned buildings, government entities and the like are explicitly prohibited.
4: Buildings owned and operated by the Southern Government are hereby prohibited to have Republic of Atlasia flags flown outside or hung up inside under any circumstances.
    4a: Failure of Southern Government employees to comply with this order will hereby have their employment terminated
5: The Southern Government hereby recognizes itself as the supreme legal authority for their own political decisions.

It is so ordered.

x Young Texan

[Adam Griffin]

YT 4 Prez in June (Motto: '3x's the Charm!'):
"I Stand For Pretending 2 Care About You on Discord & Giving Non-Denials That Will Get Your Vote"

[Adam Griffin]

YT 4 Prez in June (Motto: '3x's the Charm!'):
"I Stand For Pretending 2 Care About You on Discord & Giving Non-Denials That Will Get Your Vote"

I’m glad you think this game is what I’ll be focusing on when I go to France in June lol. Appreciate the support and love Adam, as always!

See you next election!

[Adam Griffin]

YT 4 Prez in June (Motto: '3x's the Charm!'):
"I Stand For Pretending 2 Care About You on Discord & Giving Non-Denials That Will Get Your Vote"

I’m glad you think this game is what I’ll be focusing on when I go to France in June lol. Appreciate the support and love Adam, as always!

See you next election!

When were you moving to the South?

The June Presidential, you silly billy! Guess the forum meme is lost upon you:

See you next week.

[It’s so Joever]

That executive order is clear and even if the writer “meant” something else, it will be interpreted by outsiders at face value and very possibly agencies in how they proceed.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Adam moving to the South will be interesting to see. Atlasia never disappoints!

[Devout Centrist]

Bumping this bc it appears the South empowered their current "President" (Governor)* to unilaterally secede at will? Feel like something should be done about this?

*(the very guy that some folks are attempting to recall btw!)

[HillGoose]

they better not !

secession is not very cool and unified !

[Adam Griffin]

Nobody ever listens to me. Nobody ever pays attention.

After all these years, increasingly I wonder why I even keep wasting my breath...

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nobody ever listens to me. Nobody ever pays attention.

After all these years, increasingly I wonder why I even keep wasting my breath...

Why did you think it was a good idea to offer YT a deal. I am genuinely curious? Especially if you thought they were hell bent on a hard exit from the get go. Do you really think they would be interested in being the 30% controlled opposition to a renewed Labor dominance within Atlasia?

Let's assume for a second that hard exit was the end goal all along, it probably was for at least some in the now infamous SEXIT chat (obviously less so for others as subsequently demonstrated), it would serve to examine the motivations. The basic justification for them would obviously be a "safe space" free from the restraints of the constitution and the "left" dominated national government to do what they pleased (leaving aside all of the miscalculations on their part for the sake of time).

Either they would be extracting something to facilitate secession later on, or they would be essentially giving up the major part of their purpose for existing in the first place.

Just all seems like an out of character misjudgment, or perhaps you came to a different interpretation of their motives?

[Adam Griffin]

Nobody ever listens to me. Nobody ever pays attention.

After all these years, increasingly I wonder why I even keep wasting my breath...

Why did you think it was a good idea to offer YT a deal. I am genuinely curious? Especially if you thought they were hell bent on a hard exit from the get go. Do you really think they would be interested in being the 30% controlled opposition to a renewed Labor dominance within Atlasia?

Let's assume for a second that hard exit was the end goal all along, it probably was for at least some in the now infamous SEXIT chat (obviously less so for others as subsequently demonstrated), it would serve to examine the motivations. The basic justification for them would obviously be a "safe space" free from the restraints of the constitution and the "left" dominated national government to do what they pleased (leaving aside all of the miscalculations on their part for the sake of time).

Either they would be extracting something to facilitate secession later on, or they would be essentially giving up the major part of their purpose for existing in the first place.

Just all seems like an out of character misjudgment, or perhaps you came to a different interpretation of their motives?

It's called low-ball diplomacy, Yankee. I wanted him to further trust that the honest info I was giving him was in fact honest - by offering an option where collaboration (even in the most unlikely of theories) was possible. Fortunately, he took the truth much more willingly than I had expected. That's why we're all having so much fun now!

I almost left that part out when I contacted him, to be honest. Regardless, there was less than a 1% chance he'd agree to such a deal, and within that specific range of scenarios, less than a 1% chance he could then deliver upon my requested arrangements (end/reverse secession crap, reestablish regional elections). If somehow he said "yes, Griff, I agree to restore the Republic in its entirety and reestablish democracy" and then actually delivered, well...I guess I would have found myself in a pickle! Fortunately, no one with a lick of sense or who's trying to axe-grind would ever think such was ever realistic.

You can count on one disfigured hand with fingers to spare the number of people who have more beef with YT than myself. It cost me nothing. Bad-faith fools can make all the accusations they want about me for doing such, as they always have. The fact you could read my quote in its entire context, and - as a purported defender of the Republic - only draw from such the equivalent of "LOL - you made an impossible offer to the same guy I've been colluding with for years now!" speaks volumes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nobody ever listens to me. Nobody ever pays attention.

After all these years, increasingly I wonder why I even keep wasting my breath...

Why did you think it was a good idea to offer YT a deal. I am genuinely curious? Especially if you thought they were hell bent on a hard exit from the get go. Do you really think they would be interested in being the 30% controlled opposition to a renewed Labor dominance within Atlasia?

Let's assume for a second that hard exit was the end goal all along, it probably was for at least some in the now infamous SEXIT chat (obviously less so for others as subsequently demonstrated), it would serve to examine the motivations. The basic justification for them would obviously be a "safe space" free from the restraints of the constitution and the "left" dominated national government to do what they pleased (leaving aside all of the miscalculations on their part for the sake of time).

Either they would be extracting something to facilitate secession later on, or they would be essentially giving up the major part of their purpose for existing in the first place.

Just all seems like an out of character misjudgment, or perhaps you came to a different interpretation of their motives?

It's called low-ball diplomacy, Yankee. I wanted him to further trust that the honest info I was giving him was in fact honest - by offering an option where collaboration (even in the most unlikely of theories) was possible. Fortunately, he took the truth much more willingly than I had expected. That's why we're all having so much fun now!

I almost left that part out when I contacted him, to be honest. Regardless, there was less than a 1% chance he'd agree to such a deal, and within that specific range of scenarios, less than a 1% chance he could then deliver upon my requested arrangements (end/reverse secession crap, reestablish regional elections). If somehow he said "yes, Griff, I agree to restore the Republic in its entirety and reestablish democracy" and then actually delivered, well...I guess I would have found myself in a pickle! Fortunately, no one with a lick of sense or who's trying to axe-grind would ever think such was ever realistic.

You can count on one disfigured hand with fingers to spare the number of people who have more beef with YT than myself. It cost me nothing. Bad-faith fools can make all the accusations they want about me for doing such, as they always have. The fact you could read my quote in its entire context, and - as a purported defender of the Republic - only draw from such the equivalent of "LOL - you made an impossible offer to the same guy I've been colluding with for years now!" speaks volumes.

You are as you said an opportunist. If as you say it was to "establish trust", then the logical question was "to what end".

What did you gain by making "the secessionist" aware of "plots against him". If there was a multi party coalition being formed for the express purposes "reigning him in", why torpedo that in this fashion?

To outside observers it reeks of placing partisan interest ahead of the interest of the republic, and as much as you are "acclaiming to the title of 'savior of the Republic", we all know your first priority is Labor and its success and dominance. Destroying Peace's efforts, enabled yours and gives you a chance to revive Labor's dreadful image.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Didn't want to create another thread, here seemed good enough for something south related-

Hadn't noticed it before, it's rather... "interesting" what the South's legislative process has devolved to. A bill thread is posted, YT instantly declares his "legislative prerogative" whatever the fck that is and the bill instantly passes unopposed.

What a unique take on the legislative process! Clearly taking inspiration from the National People's Congress or the Volkshammer.

[Devout Centrist]

Didn't want to create another thread, here seemed good enough for something south related-

Hadn't noticed it before, it's rather... "interesting" what the South's legislative process has devolved to. A bill thread is posted, YT instantly declares his "legislative prerogative" whatever the fck that is and the bill instantly passes unopposed.

What a unique take on the legislative process! Clearly taking inspiration from the National People's Congress or the Volkshammer.

Also, I would reckon that >75% of those 300+ laws are unconstitutional (bans on tactical assault buttplugs or man-horse sex notwithstanding).

Maybe we should try and sort that out after YT is thrown in the slammer.