If the two party system consisted of the Libertarians and the Greens...
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 09:37:55 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Presidential Election Trends (Moderator: 15 Down, 35 To Go)
  If the two party system consisted of the Libertarians and the Greens...
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: If the two party system consisted of the Libertarians and the Greens...  (Read 794 times)
Zedonathin2020
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,262
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 13, 2023, 06:21:03 PM »

What would an average Presidential election look like?
Logged
WalterWhite
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,990
United States
Political Matrix
E: -9.35, S: -9.83

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2023, 09:44:12 AM »

What would an average Presidential election look like?

https://www.yapms.com/app/?m=l476
Logged
NorCalifornio
Rookie
**
Posts: 83
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2023, 06:53:15 PM »


West Virginia of all places as a safe Green state makes no sense to me.
Logged
Snow Belt Republican
Ragnaroni
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,352
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: 1.74

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2023, 02:09:56 AM »

Libertarians vs Greens would be a very wacko map but I'd think that people would just substitute Republican for Libertarian and Democrat for Green and not change anything. I could see Nevada being a Libertarian safe state though...
Logged
TheElectoralBoobyPrize
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,519


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2023, 10:38:55 PM »

It's hard to imagine this because social conservatives would have nowhere to go.
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,142
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2023, 10:44:04 PM »

It's hard to imagine this because social conservatives would have nowhere to go.
Greens: socon, environmentally friendly, religious (in a pluralistic way), NIMBY, pro-redistributionist
Libertarians: broadly anti-government, free market, YIMBY, secular, anti-redistributionist

This might be what it becomes in the end.
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,142
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2023, 03:38:53 AM »
« Edited: May 18, 2023, 03:47:23 AM by Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »


Election was decided by New York. It is incredibly close and the Greens demand more time to allow recounts in slow-counting Long Island (whose NIMBY stances aid the party significantly there). SCOTUS says yes, and an Abbott lead in NY (powered by large winning margins in parts of Brooklyn his domination of places like Ithaca and Manhattan) is overturned. New York is awarded to the DeSantis/Rice ticket with a 210 vote winning margin, with Abbott supporters calling the election "stolen" by the Supreme Court.
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Texas, Illinois, and Ohio were also close. California was reasonable close but unlike those other states, the losing candidate did not get within 5% of the winner there.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2023, 03:44:15 AM »


Election was decided by New York. NIMBY vote in Long Island saves the Greens and in the end DeSantis/Rice wins by 10,000 votes.
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Texas, Illinois, and Ohio were also close.

DeSantis might fit in the Mexican Greens, but I don't think in any other Green party in the world.
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,142
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2023, 03:48:28 AM »
« Edited: May 18, 2023, 03:54:24 AM by Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »


Election was decided by New York. NIMBY vote in Long Island saves the Greens and in the end DeSantis/Rice wins by 10,000 votes.
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Texas, Illinois, and Ohio were also close.

DeSantis might fit in the Mexican Greens, but I don't think in any other Green party in the world.
It's based off what I postulated in the previous post. The West would structurally be pro-Libertarian and the South structurally pro-Green.
In any case, DeSantis, given his record on environmental issues, is the best fit I could find for this kind of Green party.
Logged
Agonized-Statism
Anarcho-Statism
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,802


Political Matrix
E: -9.10, S: -5.83

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2023, 12:38:15 AM »

At first, Libertarian sweeps, but eventually the Greens would make headway as the Overton Window came to include their platform. The safest yellow states would be the ones with economies heavily dependent on oil and gas or coal, i.e. Wyoming, West Virginia, Alaska, Texas. They would probably inherit an unhappy but shrinking voting bloc of religious conservatives in the Deep South and Mormon West. They would be more competitive than Republicans in the suburbs and with Hispanics. Their problem would be keeping their conservative majority base from purging the ideological libertarians, similar to what happened to the Republican establishment. The deep green states would be the usual suspects, i.e. the West Coast and the Northeast. Eventually, their platform would be understood as the one for bringing jobs back to the Rust Belt, albeit more sustainable ones. The Plains would be in a tough spot between Libertarian opposition to farm subsidies and Green opposition to agricultural pollution, although I think once the Greens start up with wind farms and Buffalo Commons proposals, there would be a backlash.

Logged
progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,312
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2023, 08:45:51 AM »

If you took out most of the socio-cultural issues on issues like sex, gender, and reproduction that dominate today's political climate, and have a consensus on race (that we're all raised to be truly colorblind), and make politics more about economic issues, you would get to this faster.

In the first election, I could see a Libertarian victory based on the desire for people to have job industries thrive and also because people want less taxes and do not agree with "Big Government" ideas.  The Green Party would have pockets, but I can't see them doing that much better than they already do now.  Honestly not enough people care about the environment to the point where they'd base their whole way of thinking on it.

That changes if people start to connect economic losses to environmental damage, and then swing voters begin to move towards Green ideas for the economy, which means higher taxes on the rich and big investments at the federal level (a Green Great Society).

To get to a Libertarian vs. Green realignment, you first need to move past the social and cultural issues though.  The religious right needs to lose its power.  The identity movements need to fade away.  I can't see, in the America of 2023, this happening tomorrow, but maybe in the 40s or 50s/mid-century.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.219 seconds with 12 queries.