Turkey elections 2023

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816
In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium...

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

It's concerning how the overseas diaspora has become politicized. The US and Canada seem to have handled this issue better, possibly due to differences in their immigrants' demographics and financial backgrounds compared to those in Europe.

[PSOL]

Shame Kilic lost, I would have loved to see the refugees be kicked out and cause chaos throughout Europe. Kilic was also more western friendly as well.

He wanted refugees sent back to Syria, not into the EU.

And there were no real indications of significant foreign policy differences between the two (because Erdogan has not broken with the old Kemalist consensus on that front).

This is untrue, the old Kemalist consensus was to be administrators for the United States and Europe to extract and exact whatever they pleased. Erdogan has been great for capitalists existing in the confines of Turkey’s borders

[CelestialAlchemy]

This is a bit off-topic, but I wonder how many politicians in one country become politicians/government officials in another? Seems pretty rare in this day and age. The Belgian to Turkish government official is unusual, I think?

[Zinneke]

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816

In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium....

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

By then the francophone christian democrats were an amalgamation of several religious and civil society interest groups and even changed their name to centre démocate Humaniste.

However once Benoit Lutgen took over from Joelle Milquet who was the architect of inviting the islamic democrats into the party, he did not like these types and even asked this Erdoganist in question not to show up at his opening press conference due to her hijab (allegedly).

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816
In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium...

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

It's concerning how the overseas diaspora has become politicized. The US and Canada seem to have handled this issue better, possibly due to differences in their immigrants' demographics and financial backgrounds compared to those in Europe.

It also has to do with the fact that European countries let state actors like Turkey and Morrocco maintain influence with their diaspora, intimidating them into following the groupthink, running their own state run mosques that promulagate the propaganda of the incumbent, etc. And European internal intelligence services would rather have a good relationship with Morroccan and Turkish intelligence than crack down on this practice and protect what are now 3rd generation immigrants who are our citizens! This ofc happens too with e.g. the Chinese but they are not as large a minority or as vocally controversial.

I wouldn't be surprised if this person, just like the mayor of Saint-Joss, is a spy herself though.

[jaichind]

TRY is down 13% since the elections.  That was always a feature, not a bug.  I remember that before the 2018 elections, Erdoğan also turned on fiscal and monetary overdrive before the elections only to turn them off after he won leading to an inflationary surge and slowdown by 2019.  Erdoğan's game plan was always to count on voter economic memories being about 1-2 years at most.

[Tintrlvr]

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816

In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium....

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

By then the francophone christian democrats were an amalgamation of several religious and civil society interest groups and even changed their name to centre démocate Humaniste.

However once Benoit Lutgen took over from Joelle Milquet who was the architect of inviting the islamic democrats into the party, he did not like these types and even asked this Erdoganist in question not to show up at his opening press conference due to her hijab (allegedly).

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816
In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium...

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

It's concerning how the overseas diaspora has become politicized. The US and Canada seem to have handled this issue better, possibly due to differences in their immigrants' demographics and financial backgrounds compared to those in Europe.

It also has to do with the fact that European countries let state actors like Turkey and Morrocco maintain influence with their diaspora, intimidating them into following the groupthink, running their own state run mosques that promulagate the propaganda of the incumbent, etc. And European internal intelligence services would rather have a good relationship with Morroccan and Turkish intelligence than crack down on this practice and protect what are now 3rd generation immigrants who are our citizens! This ofc happens too with e.g. the Chinese but they are not as large a minority or as vocally controversial.

I wouldn't be surprised if this person, just like the mayor of Saint-Joss, is a spy herself though.

If Germany had sensible immigration laws (including birthright citizenship), there wouldn't be any "third-generation Turkish immigrants" voting in Turkish elections. They would have assimilated into German society and not be Turkish citizens.

[Lord Halifax]

If Germany had sensible immigration laws (including birthright citizenship), there wouldn't be any "third-generation Turkish immigrants" voting in Turkish elections. They would have assimilated into German society and not be Turkish citizens.

Turkey gives citizenship to anyone born to a Turkish parent (or parents) abroad regardless of the other nationalities the person might acquire at birth, so it doesn't matter if they have German citizenship or not as long as their parents haven't actively renounced their Turkish citizenship.

[Tintrlvr]

If Germany had sensible immigration laws (including birthright citizenship), there wouldn't be any "third-generation Turkish immigrants" voting in Turkish elections. They would have assimilated into German society and not be Turkish citizens.

Turkey gives citizenship to anyone born to a Turkish parent (or parents) abroad regardless of the other nationalities the person might acquire at birth, so it doesn't matter if they have German citizenship or not as long as their parents haven't actively renounced their Turkish citizenship.

Adults with German citizenship would be uninterested in retaining Turkish citizenship. We know this because the exact same thing happens in pretty much every country with birthright citizenship, often at second generation and inevitably by third generation. You have to be a citizen of somewhere, so if where you were born and live your entire life rejects you as a citizen, you'll of course stick with the citizenship of the country that gives you citizenship and all of the baggage that entails.

[Sir Mohamed]

It's interesting Erdogan replaced almost his entire cabinet and also appointed a new VP. It's cleary a sign he doesn't intent naming some kinf of heir apparent. Neither is he interested one minister becoming too powerful in his shadow.

Assuming his health permit it, I'm fairly certain he'll find a way to bypass term limits in 2028 and continue to say in power.

[Edu]

This is a bit off-topic, but I wonder how many politicians in one country become politicians/government officials in another? Seems pretty rare in this day and age. The Belgian to Turkish government official is unusual, I think?

Manuel Valls and Mikheil Saakashvili come to mind

[Zinneke]

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816

In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium....

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

By then the francophone christian democrats were an amalgamation of several religious and civil society interest groups and even changed their name to centre démocate Humaniste.

However once Benoit Lutgen took over from Joelle Milquet who was the architect of inviting the islamic democrats into the party, he did not like these types and even asked this Erdoganist in question not to show up at his opening press conference due to her hijab (allegedly).

https://twitter.com/JoVanobost/status/1665252367745314816
In which an ex-Brussels regional MP becomes an Erddogan minister.

She was a member of a christian democratic party in Belgium...

...and was expelled in 2015 for Armenian Genocide denial

It's concerning how the overseas diaspora has become politicized. The US and Canada seem to have handled this issue better, possibly due to differences in their immigrants' demographics and financial backgrounds compared to those in Europe.

It also has to do with the fact that European countries let state actors like Turkey and Morrocco maintain influence with their diaspora, intimidating them into following the groupthink, running their own state run mosques that promulagate the propaganda of the incumbent, etc. And European internal intelligence services would rather have a good relationship with Morroccan and Turkish intelligence than crack down on this practice and protect what are now 3rd generation immigrants who are our citizens! This ofc happens too with e.g. the Chinese but they are not as large a minority or as vocally controversial.

I wouldn't be surprised if this person, just like the mayor of Saint-Joss, is a spy herself though.

If Germany had sensible immigration laws (including birthright citizenship), there wouldn't be any "third-generation Turkish immigrants" voting in Turkish elections. They would have assimilated into German society and not be Turkish citizens.

I don't believe in stripping dual nationality, I'm a dual national myself. but I do believe spying on one country on behalf of another is a crime and that the whole integration model many others in Europe adopted totally failed and that the first victims are the people born here but raised into those communities.

Stripping dual nationality is a solution looking for a problem. The Dutch stripped it it doesn't stop the Morroccans there at all having their intelligence services bully them.

[Lord Halifax]

If Germany had sensible immigration laws (including birthright citizenship), there wouldn't be any "third-generation Turkish immigrants" voting in Turkish elections. They would have assimilated into German society and not be Turkish citizens.

Turkey gives citizenship to anyone born to a Turkish parent (or parents) abroad regardless of the other nationalities the person might acquire at birth, so it doesn't matter if they have German citizenship or not as long as their parents haven't actively renounced their Turkish citizenship.

Adults with German citizenship would be uninterested in retaining Turkish citizenship. We know this because the exact same thing happens in pretty much every country with birthright citizenship, often at second generation and inevitably by third generation. You have to be a citizen of somewhere, so if where you were born and live your entire life rejects you as a citizen, you'll of course stick with the citizenship of the country that gives you citizenship and all of the baggage that entails.

I suspect the relative size of the Turkish minority in Germany, the strength of Turkish nationalism, Germany being associated with a specific ethnic group and Turkey being so relatively close (the distance between Munich and Istanbul is equivalent to the one between El Paso and Mexico City) will continue to make a difference. There aren't really that many comparable cases, usually one of those factors is absent.

[xelas81]

This is a bit off-topic, but I wonder how many politicians in one country become politicians/government officials in another? Seems pretty rare in this day and age. The Belgian to Turkish government official is unusual, I think?

Manuel Valls and Mikheil Saakashvili come to mind

Mohammad Sarwar (father of Anas Sarwar, current leader of Scottish Labour) was UK MP before becoming governor Punjab, Pakistan.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The classic example is Yitzhak Gruenbaum, who led the Bloc of National Minorities in the Polish Second Republic in the 1920s and later served as Israel's first Interior Minister.

[Yeahsayyeah]

Germany has birthright citizenship since the year 2000 for people with one parent living in Germany legally for 8 years and the new naturalization law will slash the periods for naturalization from 8 to 5 years. On the other hand, keeping the other citizenship becomes easier. We will see, how this develops.

On the other hand, there is probably a self selection bias at play, as Erdogan fans probably are more likely to keep their citizenship for political and economic (inheritance of land etc.) reasons.

[Biden 2024]

This is a bit off-topic, but I wonder how many politicians in one country become politicians/government officials in another? Seems pretty rare in this day and age. The Belgian to Turkish government official is unusual, I think?

Manuel Valls and Mikheil Saakashvili come to mind

Mohammad Sarwar (father of Anas Sarwar, current leader of Scottish Labour) was UK MP before becoming governor Punjab, Pakistan.

Jaime Bonilla Valdez, Governor of Baja California from 2019-2021, sort of counts. Dual U.S.-Mexican citizen who was a member of the Otay Water District in California and was on John McCain's 2008 California finance committee. He resigned to move to Baja in 2012 and get involved in politics as part of the Labor Party (now in Morena, apparently).

[DavidB.]

Stripping dual nationality is a solution looking for a problem. The Dutch stripped it it doesn't stop the Morroccans there at all having their intelligence services bully them.

I agree that banning dual citizenship is nonsensical. Moroccans and Turks in the Netherlands are still (almost) all dual nationals though. If you were born with dual/multiple citizenship, you can keep both/all. The only thing that is banned in NL is taking up another citizenship later in life (you'll lose your Dutch citizenship automatically, except when it is because of marrying someone of a different nationality, in which case you can have both). And if you become a Dutch national now, you have to renounce all your other nationalities. No way to find out though, since someone in an office pressed DEL on the registry of dual nationals a few years ago. I don't think the law is on its way out, but it won't be enforced - a typically Dutch solution to a non-existing problem indeed.

[Hnv1]

The classic example is Yitzhak Gruenbaum, who led the Bloc of National Minorities in the Polish Second Republic in the 1920s and later served as Israel's first Interior Minister.

Mordechai Nurock formed a government in Latvia in 1926, he was later a minister in Israeli government. But these are a bit misleading as there wasn't an Israeli state when these individuals held office in their respective birth countries.

[PSOL]

Just realized just how screwed Rojava is with Erdogan in charge. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s another Syrian offensive soon.

[jaymichaud]

More political parties should mimic The_Meral's campaign aesthetics