SR 113-24: Judicial Reform Amendment (Passed)

[Mr. Reactionary]

Senate Resolution

To amend the Constitution to establish term limits for Supreme Court Justices and Associate Justices and clarify the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Constitution shall be amended as follows:

Judicial Reform Amendment

The following additions, deletions, and changes are to be incorporated under Article V of the Fifth Constitution:

Section 1. The Judiciary.

1. The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in the Supreme Court, the membership of which shall consist of two Justices and three Associate Justices chosen in the following manner:

i. The Justices of the Supreme Court shall be nominated by the President of the Republic of Atlasia and confirmed by a majority vote of the Senate.

ii. The chief executive officer of each of the several Regions shall nominate from among their constituents a candidate for Associate Justice. Upon the assent of a majority of the legislative power thereof, the nomination shall proceed to the President. If they the President approves of the nomination they should the President shall grant their Assent and the nominee shall assume the office of Associate Justice; but if they should the President disapproves they should the President shall veto it and the nomination will be annulled. If then two thirds of the Senate should vote to override the President's veto, the nominee shall take office regardless of the opinion of the President.

2. The Justices and Associate Justices thus chosen shall hold their offices for life in good behavior for a term of two consecutive years; however no person shall be reappointed to the Supreme Court until at least ninety days have passed since their previous term as Justice or Associate Justice.

3. The President shall designate a Chief Justice from among the appointed Justices, who shall continue in that capacity until such time as they shall resign the designation, or else cease to be a member of the Supreme Court.

4. The term for any Supreme Court Justice or Associate Justice that, at the time this amendment is ratified, exceeds two consecutive years, shall expire as follows:

i. The term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire automatically upon ratification.

ii. The term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire thirty days after the expiration of the term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice; and thenafter every subsequent thirty days the term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire in descending order of seniority until all Justices and Associate Justices on the Supreme Court shall have served for fewer than two consecutive years.

Section 2. Regional Courts

The judicial power of each of the several Regions shall be vested in a Circuit Court composed of the Associate Justice chosen from that Region, and no Region shall establish any other court or judicial authority to hear a case with original jurisdiction lying with the Supreme Court.

Section 3. Jurisdiction.

1. The original and mandatory jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend to :

i. all actual cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution and all official acts made under its authority;

ii. to all cases affecting ambassadors and other public ministers; and

iii. to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

2. The appellate, concurrent, and discretionary jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall, as permitted by law, extend to controveries:

i. to controversies to which this Republic shall be a party;

ii. to controversies between two or more Regions, or between a Region and citizens of another Region;

iii. between citizens of different Regions;

iv. between citizens of the same Region claiming lands under grants of different Regions; and

v. between a Region, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects.

2.3. The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the Region where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any Region, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Senate may by law have directed.

This Constitutional Amendment establishes a two year term limit for Justices and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court and establishes a staggered process for the expiration of tje terms of existing Justices and Associate Justices who already exceed the term limit. This Constitutional Amendment also clarifies the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court by identifying which cases and controversies the Supreme Court must hear and which they may, by discretion, hear.

Sponsor: Reactionary
Debate on this amendment is now open.

[windjammer]

Honestly I find it absolutely childish to write a constitutional amendment to remove the whole bench of the Supreme Court just because a court case as stupid as about Elon Musk's fantasy twitter actions didn't go your way

[Mr. Reactionary]

This is an amendment to provide much needed reform to the judiciary. It clarifies case jurisdiction for the court, including when cases must be heard (original jurisdiction) and when they may be heard by discretion (appellate jurisdiction).

It also puts in place a 2 consecutive year term limit which should enhance gameplay. I began playing Atlasia in 2017 (like 6 years ago) and there are still justices on the Court from before I joined which is ridiculous and ruins the fun of the game. We are a simulation and thus have several elections a year for the same office to ensure healthy turnover and to give others a chance to play. The notion that someone would camp in a position for SEVEN YEARS is pretty ridiculous and terrible for gameplay. Having life tenure for a game where the president is elected every 4 months is absurd. Its time for reform to enhance gameplay for everyone else who didnt happen to be dominant literally at the beginning of the last reboot.

2 year terms ensures independence while still beimg realistic with how the game is played. Again, its not fun for anyone else when an in-game job is literally permanently controlled by the same player. SEVEN YEARS is way way too long, regardless of if the court was actually doing its job or not. SEVEN. YEARS.

This allows term limited justices to be reappointed after a period off the court. It also provides for staggered removal to ensure the court doesnt lose everyone at once.

Ultimately, this amendment is important to reform the game moving forward. It clarifies when the court has to make a decision and ensures we dont have a permanent oligarch class who can hog a position forever and keep everyone else from having fun. This amendment should bring fairness, fun, and stability to the game.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Honestly I find it absolutely childish to write a constitutional amendment to remove the whole bench of the Supreme Court just because a court case as stupid as about Elon Musk's fantasy twitter actions didn't go your way

This was written before the case even started by my knowledge but go off I guess *shrug*

Not a good idea to antagonize the senate over this. The ruling was dumb but I was like, whatever over it. Your behavior the past day however had made me consider this a lot more.

[windjammer]

Honestly I find it absolutely childish to write a constitutional amendment to remove the whole bench of the Supreme Court just because a court case as stupid as about Elon Musk's fantasy twitter actions didn't go your way

This was written before the case even started by my knowledge but go off I guess *shrug*

Not a good idea to antagonize the senate over this. The ruling was dumb but I was like, whatever over it. Your behavior the past day however had made me consider this a lot more.

What are you even talking about?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment to add in retention elections. I chose April because it's not particularly heavy on competitive regional contests and is not a presidential cycle. Feel free to mess with it.

Senate Resolution

To amend the Constitution to establish term limits for Supreme Court Justices and Associate Justices and clarify the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Constitution shall be amended as follows:

Judicial Reform Amendment

The following additions, deletions, and changes are to be incorporated under Article V of the Fifth Constitution:

Section 1. The Judiciary.

1. The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in the Supreme Court, the membership of which shall consist of two Justices and three Associate Justices chosen in the following manner:

i. The Justices of the Supreme Court shall be nominated by the President of the Republic of Atlasia and confirmed by a majority vote of the Senate.

ii. The chief executive officer of each of the several Regions shall nominate from among their constituents a candidate for Associate Justice. Upon the assent of a majority of the legislative power thereof, the nomination shall proceed to the President. If they the President approves of the nomination they should the President shall grant their Assent and the nominee shall assume the office of Associate Justice; but if they should the President disapproves they should the President shall veto it and the nomination will be annulled. If then two thirds of the Senate should vote to override the President's veto, the nominee shall take office regardless of the opinion of the President.

2. The Justices and Associate Justices thus chosen shall hold their offices for life in good behavior for a term of two consecutive years; however no person shall be reappointed to the Supreme Court until at least ninety days have passed since their previous term as Justice or Associate Justice.

3. The President shall designate a Chief Justice from among the appointed Justices, who shall continue in that capacity until such time as they shall resign the designation, or else cease to be a member of the Supreme Court.

4. The term for any Supreme Court Justice or Associate Justice that, at the time this amendment is ratified, exceeds two consecutive years, shall expire as follows:

i. The term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire automatically upon ratification.

ii. The term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire thirty days after the expiration of the term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice; and thenafter every subsequent thirty days the term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire in descending order of seniority until all Justices and Associate Justices on the Supreme Court shall have served for fewer than two consecutive years.

5. Each April, all justices of the Supreme Court shall be subject to a retention election. It shall be a national election for the Chief Justice and Junior Federal Judge, and a regional election for each of the regional justices. It shall be a simple Yes/No question on retaining the judge. If the judge is not retained, they shall leave the court 30 days after the election. A replacement for them can be appointed and confirmed any time after the election is held, and they will take office once the 30 days conclude (or immediately if such days have already concluded). If a judge is not retained, they may not be reappointed for a period of six months after the election is held.

Section 2. Regional Courts

The judicial power of each of the several Regions shall be vested in a Circuit Court composed of the Associate Justice chosen from that Region, and no Region shall establish any other court or judicial authority to hear a case with original jurisdiction lying with the Supreme Court.

Section 3. Jurisdiction.

1. The original and mandatory jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend to :

i. all actual cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution and all official acts made under its authority;

ii. to all cases affecting ambassadors and other public ministers; and

iii. to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

2. The appellate, concurrent, and discretionary jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall, as permitted by law, extend to controveries:

i. to controversies to which this Republic shall be a party;

ii. to controversies between two or more Regions, or between a Region and citizens of another Region;

iii. between citizens of different Regions;

iv. between citizens of the same Region claiming lands under grants of different Regions; and

v. between a Region, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects.

2.3. The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the Region where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any Region, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Senate may by law have directed.

This Constitutional Amendment establishes a two year term limit for Justices and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court and establishes a staggered process for the expiration of tje terms of existing Justices and Associate Justices who already exceed the term limit. This Constitutional Amendment also clarifies the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court by identifying which cases and controversies the Supreme Court must hear and which they may, by discretion, hear.

Sponsor: Reactionary
Debate on this amendment is now open.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I guess I will say friendly and allow 24 hours for objection.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

I was going to instead do something different with the legislatures who confirmed these justices having to reconfirm the current ones. For example, PiT in the CoD, but WJ in the Senate. I’ll give some thought on whether I think that idea is better than Wulfric’s.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I was going to instead do something different with the legislatures who confirmed these justices having to reconfirm the current ones. For example, PiT in the CoD, but WJ in the Senate. I’ll give some thought on whether I think that idea is better than Wulfric’s.

As Mr. R's language is currently constructed (and unchanged by mine), all the Justices with the exception of Sestak (as he was just appointed) will be turfed off the court by the term limit thing in very short order (so basically, for those who will still be on the court in April, the retention will just decide if their mandatory break is 90 days or 6 months). There will be different nominees for each of those seats, unless the appropriate bodies want to just hold the seat open for 90 days.

[YE]

All this over Elon Musk fantasy Twitter actions getting nuked?

[windjammer]

All this over Elon Musk fantasy Twitter actions getting nuked?

To be fair to Blackraising,
He wrote it before this whole stuff.


But the goal is clearly removing me from office as with this amendment currently written I would be "instantly" be removed

[windjammer]

Honestly I know this can be surprising but I do believe blackraisin does have some point.

However I detest the part where I would be instantly removed from office as I genuinely think this is just to screw me basically.

Can someone write some amendment where:
- the 2 most senior justices would expire at the end of the first semester
- the 2 or 3 other at the end of this year.

I mean something like that?

[YE]

I was going to instead do something different with the legislatures who confirmed these justices having to reconfirm the current ones. For example, PiT in the CoD, but WJ in the Senate. I’ll give some thought on whether I think that idea is better than Wulfric’s.

This is a good middle ground imo. I think in general having a Court with experience is valuable and I don’t think two year term limits on a body that doesn’t see cases particularly frequently makes the game particularly more fun but if you think judges have lost touch, I don’t mind it.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Honestly I know this can be surprising but I do believe blackraisin does have some point.

However I detest the part where I would be instantly removed from office as I genuinely think this is just to screw me basically.

Can someone write some amendment where:
- the 2 most senior justices would expire at the end of the first semester
- the 2 or 3 other at the end of this year.

I mean something like that?

I guess I see a level of Wisdom in that. Once we see if the retention thing is adopted or not I can write up an implementation delay.

[windjammer]

Honestly I know this can be surprising but I do believe blackraisin does have some point.

However I detest the part where I would be instantly removed from office as I genuinely think this is just to screw me basically.

Can someone write some amendment where:
- the 2 most senior justices would expire at the end of the first semester
- the 2 or 3 other at the end of this year.

I mean something like that?

I guess I see a level of Wisdom in that. Once we see if the retention thing is adopted or not I can write up an implementation delay.

Thank you wulfric!

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Wulfric isn't a Senator, so who is sponsoring this amendment?

[PPT Spiral]

Wulfric isn't a Senator, so who is sponsoring this amendment?

I'll volunteer.

[Mr. Reactionary]

24 hours to object to Blairites Amendment

[Pericles]

I don't trust the sponsor's intentions and there is no genuine need for this, I hope the Senate is responsible and protects the integrity of our Court.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Senate Resolution

To amend the Constitution to establish term limits for Supreme Court Justices and Associate Justices and clarify the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

Be It Resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled, that upon ratification by 2/3rds of the Regions, the Constitution shall be amended as follows:

Judicial Reform Amendment

The following additions, deletions, and changes are to be incorporated under Article V of the Fifth Constitution:

Section 1. The Judiciary.

1. The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in the Supreme Court, the membership of which shall consist of two Justices and three Associate Justices chosen in the following manner:

i. The Justices of the Supreme Court shall be nominated by the President of the Republic of Atlasia and confirmed by a majority vote of the Senate.

ii. The chief executive officer of each of the several Regions shall nominate from among their constituents a candidate for Associate Justice. Upon the assent of a majority of the legislative power thereof, the nomination shall proceed to the President. If they the President approves of the nomination they should the President shall grant their Assent and the nominee shall assume the office of Associate Justice; but if they should the President disapproves they should the President shall veto it and the nomination will be annulled. If then two thirds of the Senate should vote to override the President's veto, the nominee shall take office regardless of the opinion of the President.

2. The Justices and Associate Justices thus chosen shall hold their offices for life in good behavior for a renewable term of two consecutive years; however no person shall be reappointed to the Supreme Court until at least ninety days have passed since their previous term as Justice or Associate Justice.

3. The President shall designate a Chief Justice from among the appointed Justices, who shall continue in that capacity until such time as they shall resign the designation, or else cease to be a member of the Supreme Court.

4. The term for any Supreme Court Justice or Associate Justice that, at the time this amendment is ratified, exceeds two consecutive years, shall follow a process as follows:expire as follows:

i. The term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire automatically upon ratification.

ii. The term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire thirty days after the expiration of the term of the most senior Justice or Associate Justice; and then after every subsequent thirty days the term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire in descending order of seniority until all Justices and Associate Justices on the Supreme Court shall have served for fewer than two consecutive years.[/s]

i. All Justices or Associate Justices who have served for more then two consecutive years shall be placed before their respective confirming legislative bodies for re-confirmation to a new 2-year term. The Associate Justice from the South shall be placed before the Southern Chamber of Delegates or similar Southern Regional legislature, the Associate Justice from Lincoln shall be placed before the Lincoln General Court or similar Lincolnite Regional legislature, the Associate Justice from Fremont shall be placed before the Fremont Parliament or similar Fremonter Regional legislature, and the At-large Justices shall be placed before the Senate. Should they fail to be re-confirmed, a new justice must be selected by the means outlined in Section 1, Subsection 1 of Article V of the Constitution.

Section 2. Regional Courts

The judicial power of each of the several Regions shall be vested in a Circuit Court composed of the Associate Justice chosen from that Region, and no Region shall establish any other court or judicial authority to hear a case with original jurisdiction lying with the Supreme Court.

Section 3. Jurisdiction.

1. The original and mandatory jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend to :

i. all actual cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution and all official acts made under its authority;

ii. to all cases affecting ambassadors and other public ministers; and

iii. to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

2. The appellate, concurrent, and discretionary jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall, as permitted by law, extend to controveries:

i. to controversies to which this Republic shall be a party;

ii. to controversies between two or more Regions, or between a Region and citizens of another Region;

iii. between citizens of different Regions;

iv. between citizens of the same Region claiming lands under grants of different Regions; and

v. between a Region, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects.

2.3. The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the Region where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any Region, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Senate may by law have directed.

This Constitutional Amendment establishes a two year renewable term limit for Justices and Associate Justices of the Supreme Court and establishes a staggered process for the expiration of tje terms of existing Justices and Associate Justices who already exceed the term limit. This Constitutional Amendment also clarifies the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court by identifying which cases and controversies the Supreme Court must hear and which they may, by discretion, hear.

Amendment to do what I was talking about before. I think that having the 90 day period isn't the best idea since if a justice is doing fine and the legislature wants to keep them, they have to either hold the seat open for 3 months, or have some seat-warmer who doesn't actually want the job to go in there for the time. This amendment means that now if a Justice is being lazy, or for some other reason, their regional legislature can vote against reconfirming and put in someone new. 

The only issue that may arise here is that with the current makeup of the court, I believe 4 of 5 justices would be up for reconfirmation at the same time, meaning if there's an ideological wave at that time then they could hold a supermajority of the court before fading away elsewhere, but still have their justices there. If we want to avoid that I'm ok with making the re-confirmations staggered like in the original's expirations.

Since this conflicts with the other 2 amendments, I ask that they be withdrawn, should their authors/sponsors agree with my line of reasoning of course.

[windjammer]

I'm not going to continue to argue with blackraisin who thinks that I'm being some criminal because I'm holding an office for 7 years that literally NO ACTIVE  PLAYER WANTS.



Regarding weatherboy's amendment, the issue I have it is that there would be too many associate justices being up for reelection and not that I don't believe he's looking for a power grab, in the end that would be looking like that.

I believe a clause setting the various terms. Like for example for me : "for the two justices appointed by the president, one expires in December and an another in June and at the end of their term they would be up for reelection"

I'm not looking at some personal gains and I'm willing to promise to retire and not seek an another term if that is needed
Of

[Mr. Reactionary]

24 hours to object to the Weatherboy Amendment.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Proposed Amemdment. 24 Hours for objections. WITHDRAWN

...

i. The term of the two most senior Justices or Associate Justices shall expire automatically upon sixty days after ratification.

ii. The term of the next two most senior Justices or Associate Justices shall expire thirty one hundred twenty days after the expiration of the term of the two most senior Justices or Associate Justices; and thenafter every subsequent thirt days the term of the next most senior Justice or Associate Justice shall expire in descending order of seniority until all Justices and Associate Justices on the Supreme Court shall have served for fewer than two consecutive years.

5. Each April Beginning May of 2024 and every subsequent May thereafter, all justices of the Supreme Court shall be subject to a retention election. It shall be a national election for the Chief Justice and Junior Federal Judge, and a regional election for each of the regional justices. It shall be a simple Yes/No question on retaining the judge. If the judge is not retained, they shall leave the Supreme Court thirty days after the election. A replacement for them can be appointed and confirmed any time after the election is held, and they will take office once the thirty days conclude (or immediately if such days have already concluded). If a judge is not retained, they may not be reappointed for a period of six months after the election is held.

...

[Mr. Reactionary]

Another amendment to clarify jurisdiction over cases where an NPC is a party. 24 hours to object.

...

Section 3. Jurisdiction.

1. The original and mandatory jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend to :

i. all actual cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution and all official acts made under its authority;

ii. to all cases affecting ambassadors and other public ministers; and

iii. to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction.

2. The appellate, concurrent, and discretionary jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall, as permitted by law, extend to controveries:

i. to controversies to which this Republic shall be a party;

ii. to controversies between two or more Regions, or between a Region and citizens of another Region;

iii. between citizens of different Regions;

iv. between citizens of the same Region claiming lands under grants of different Regions; and

v. between a Region, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects; and

vi. to which an NPC unrepresented by a player shall be a party.

...

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I'm not going to continue to argue with blackraisin who thinks that I'm being some criminal because I'm holding an office for 7 years that literally NO ACTIVE  PLAYER WANTS.

This is an unverifiable statement. To any common observer before now, you were intent on occupying the position forever and basically impossible to remove. Therefore, anyone interested would see no value in expressing that interest because it would not result in them achieving anything. People are not going to waste their breath over an impossible to obtain position.

Now that we have opened the doors to new justices, such interest is being allowed to appear and I believe will appear in due time.

This reminds me of Tack being like "Well I thought it was Kaiser or bust" during the Lincoln nomination. Then he got names provided to him by various sources, and in the end we got a nominee who didn't have Kansas Crisis baggage (even if there were some nefarious tactics behind the scenes) that we could all feel decent about voting for. Sometimes you just need to open up your windows and look around.