SB 113-17: Gold Is Good Act (Passed)

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Thanks to DeadPrez for explaining this to me in private, but i'm not convinced and i'll not support the act. I assume it will pass, but I don't think it is good for a number of reasons, esp. some concerns i stated before.

It just doesn't strike to me as a good idea. I know it's not officially returning "to the gold standard", but choosing for wages to be paid out in "raw gold" could have side effects, and yes i know this is a voluntary choice. But i have issues with even including/adding the option here. I don't think this will be advantageous to the vast majority of people in particular working class people, from being paid out in raw gold. The only kind of person who would prefer this probably has questionable intentions in the first place, like people making use of the black market which is often criminals or people who need to whitewash an income. Even discussing this act in public would have the side effect of people investing in gold, thinking about it, increasing their prices.

The issue is also that gold currently is a tradeable good, not a type of currency, allowing people to do transactions from raw gold and opening the possibility for it to be minted. It would become a good that would affect all markets suddenly at the same time, and it would have not the function it has right now (as being a safe investment in difficult times).

This would lead to inflation, possibly high inflation. And I don't know the current inflation rates in Atlasia, but if similar to other parts in the world, now is definitely not the time to pass such an act given it could potentially lead Atlasia into an economic crisis.

I also believe it is ethical wrong. People need to be paid out in real money, and no other thing: no cars, no phones, no gold. Real money. If you want the gold, pay for it. If you want the car, pay for it. If we wouldn't do that, there would be no reason for money to exist in the first place.

[Saint Milei]

Thanks to DeadPrez for explaining this to me in private, but i'm not convinced and i'll not support the act. I assume it will pass, but I don't think it is good for a number of reasons, esp. some concerns i stated before.

It just doesn't strike to me as a good idea. I know it's not officially returning "to the gold standard", but choosing for wages to be paid out in "raw gold" could have side effects, and yes i know this is a voluntary choice. But i have issues with even including/adding the option here. I don't think this will be advantageous to the vast majority of people in particular working class people, from being paid out in raw gold. The only kind of person who would prefer this probably has questionable intentions in the first place, like people making use of the black market which is often criminals or people who need to whitewash an income. Even discussing this act in public would have the side effect of people investing in gold, thinking about it, increasing their prices.

The issue is also that gold currently is a tradeable good, not a type of currency, allowing people to do transactions from raw gold and opening the possibility for it to be minted. It would become a good that would affect all markets suddenly at the same time, and it would have not the function it has right now (as being a safe investment in difficult times).

This would lead to inflation, possibly high inflation. And I don't know the current inflation rates in Atlasia, but if similar to other parts in the world, now is definitely not the time to pass such an act given it could potentially lead Atlasia into an economic crisis.

I also believe it is ethical wrong. People need to be paid out in real money, and no other thing: no cars, no phones, no gold. Real money. If you want the gold, pay for it. If you want the car, pay for it. If we wouldn't do that, there would be no reason for money to exist in the first place.

Since we discussed this in private, my response here will be a general critique of your position + anyone else that wants to add on to this.

We can start off with the argument describing the intent of an individual who wants to receive payment in gold. The issue here is we already know who is going to receive their payment in gold. Gold isn't inherently prone to promoting the black market. An individual could easily stock their bank with gold and get a receipt from said bank and we would know exactly where the money came from, how much, and what the person's intent is by definition. Furthermore, there is no proof the black market is run by gold. If there is some, please provide some. This might make sense in the case of crypto which is much harder to trace, but a physical commodity is much easier to track. What makes gold more difficult or corrupt than Atlasian fiat currency? Would we extend this critique to other fiat in other nations? Moreover, would we be this critical of the policy if one wanted their money in terms of another fiat? After careful consideration, I don't think this argument holds at all. I would also point out that the government is also able to do this. Now, this might be an argument promoting anti-corruption in government being a bad thing, but I doubt my left-winged colleagues are making this case at all. Since gold is a living commodity that is not only traded but a natural resource, it's actually inherently less corrupt than paper currency. What's to stop a business from possibly giving an employee a fraudulent dollar at a rate lower than an actual natural resource?

Respectfully, your second critique makes absolutely no sense at all. Money is a good. Money is a tradeable good. Gold has always been viewed as money historically. Thus, it is a currency that has allowed people to do transactions after being minted. The same for silver and copper. In fact, most of world history shows gold or precious metals as the dominant form of currency. We only started using paper seriously about 100 years ago. Gold wouldn't affect every market at a substantial rate since most people wouldn't demand it be used as a currency for labor or debt and even if it was, why would this be problematic? Or a better question is, how is this more problematic than the numerous fiat currencies that exist as of right now?

The third critique also doesn't really make sense. How is it going to lead to inflation? Swapping gold for paper is literally just replacing one transaction/currency with another. This doesn't increase the money supply at all. The supply remains the same. Even if President Cao decides to find more gold, this doesn't mean there will be some gold rush. More importantly, even if there was a gold rush, where is the evidence that this rush will be higher than the current rate of inflation? Has there ever been a moment, in human history, where paper currency increased at a rate lower than gold reserves increasing? Absolutely not. Paper can just be printed on a whim. Gold cannot.


Lastly, I think this is just a case of not understanding monetary economics. Calling "paper" real money and not gold is actually legitimately crazy. The only reason paper dollars are demanded is because government mandated it to be. This bill doesn't even mandate gold. It gives consenting parties a choice. You talk about inflation and possible economic hardships. Most people that purchase gold so it for those reasons: to avoid inflation and possible hardships. The gold doesn't lead to inflation and collapse. Collapse and inflation leads people to demand gold.

[Liminal Trans Girl]

Thanks to DeadPrez for explaining this to me in private, but i'm not convinced and i'll not support the act. I assume it will pass, but I don't think it is good for a number of reasons, esp. some concerns i stated before.

It just doesn't strike to me as a good idea. I know it's not officially returning "to the gold standard", but choosing for wages to be paid out in "raw gold" could have side effects, and yes i know this is a voluntary choice. But i have issues with even including/adding the option here. I don't think this will be advantageous to the vast majority of people in particular working class people, from being paid out in raw gold. The only kind of person who would prefer this probably has questionable intentions in the first place, like people making use of the black market which is often criminals or people who need to whitewash an income. Even discussing this act in public would have the side effect of people investing in gold, thinking about it, increasing their prices.

The issue is also that gold currently is a tradeable good, not a type of currency, allowing people to do transactions from raw gold and opening the possibility for it to be minted. It would become a good that would affect all markets suddenly at the same time, and it would have not the function it has right now (as being a safe investment in difficult times).

This would lead to inflation, possibly high inflation. And I don't know the current inflation rates in Atlasia, but if similar to other parts in the world, now is definitely not the time to pass such an act given it could potentially lead Atlasia into an economic crisis.

I also believe it is ethical wrong. People need to be paid out in real money, and no other thing: no cars, no phones, no gold. Real money. If you want the gold, pay for it. If you want the car, pay for it. If we wouldn't do that, there would be no reason for money to exist in the first place.

I agree with this

[Mr. Reactionary]

Any other debate?

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

I agree with Laki. Still not comfortable with this.

[Saint Milei]

Amendment

Goldchain policy
To ensure accountability and less corruption, every employer and employee that utilizies gold and silver for wages and income will be regulated under a public ledger that keeps track of the gold payments. An integer (number) will be used for each employer/employee that keeps track of the gold stock and where the gold is being sent. The ledger will be subject to regulation once a year.

This amendment is analogous to the public ledger in blockchain for bitcoin.

[Mr. Reactionary]

24 hours to object.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Amendment is adopted.

I move for a final vote. 24 hours to object.

[Mr. Reactionary]

A final vote is now open on this bill until Friday at noon eastern or until everyone votes, whichever occurs soonest. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

GOLD IS GOOD ACT

1. Gold and silver shall be considered forms of legal tender for all public debts and all private debts in which both parties consent to the form of payment.

2. For public debts the conversion rate of legal tender shall be 90% of the average spot price for silver or gold.


3. Silver and gold offered as payment for public debts shall be of a clearly marked fineness of .9 or greater minted into a uniformly sized coin, round, or bar:

A. by the governments of Atlasia, any Region therein, or any foreign country determined by the Secretary of State to have accurate and trustworthy mints; or

B. by a private mint that has not been determined by the Attorney General or any federal or Regional court of competent jurisdiction to have engaged in counterfeiting, adulteration, fraudulent weighing or marking, or any similar unfair trade practice related to the purity, weight, or identification of minted products.

4. For private debts, both parties shall consent to the conversion rate of legal tender as well as the purity, weight, form, and mint of the gold or silver. This may include private currencies in the form of warehouse certificates entitling the bearer to redeem the certificate for a fixed amount of existent gold or silver on demand.

5. Gold or silver paid to an employee or contractor pursuant to an employment contract shall be treated as income and shall not be subject to any additional capital gain tax upon the sale or conversion of such gold or silver into Atlasian currency.

6. Gold or silver may be paid directly to an employee as part of a 401(K) or IRA retirement package on the same terms and with the same tax rate as any other investment. If the employee does not sell or convert the gold or silver into Atlasian currency until retirement then such gold or silver shall not be subject to any additional capital gain tax upon the sale or conversion of such gold or silver into Atlasian currency upon retirement.

7. To ensure accountability and less corruption, every employer and employee that utilizies gold and silver for wages and income will be regulated under a public ledger that keeps track of the gold payments. An integer (number) will be used for each employer/employee that keeps track of the gold stock and where the gold is being sent. The ledger will be subject to regulation once a year.

8. The regulation mandating that merchants and traders regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) must pre-fund a margin account prior to offering to buy CFTC regulated securities shall be amended to exempt merchants and traders who transfer their margin at the time of the trade. 17 CFR 30.7 shall be amended accordingly.

9. This act shall take effect July 4, 2023.

[Saint Milei]

aye

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Aye

[Enduro]

Aye

[Mr. Reactionary]

Aye

[Liminal Trans Girl]

Nay

[West_Midlander]

aye

[Utah Neolib]

Nay

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Nay

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Nay

[PragmaticPopulist]

Nay

[OriAr]

Nay

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Aye

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Nay

thank you OriAr, very cool!

[PPT Spiral]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

[Mr. Reactionary]

Bill passes 8-5-0-5.