Why aren't Russians seen as victims even though 27 million of them were killed by Nazis?

[SlavicOrthodoxWolf]

Why aren't Russians seen as a protected victim class even though they suffered more than almost any other group in the 20th century, including the death of 27 million of them at the hands of Nazis? Why, despite this history, are their concerns about Nazism in Ukraine not taken seriously?

I can think of a certain other country that is allowed to get away with horrendous war crimes and use "we were victims of the Nazis" as an excuse. Even though Palestinians are completely innocent of collaborating with Nazis, while Ukrainian nationalists aren't.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

this is a slavicwolf threaf

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

[Pericles]

Even this asinine historical comparison makes no sense because more Ukrainians were killed by the Nazis than Russians, after millions had already been killed by Stalin's genocidal tyranny.

[John Dule]

Russians are absolutely victims (of socialism and communism).

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

27 million is the total Soviet citizen casualty count, yes?
Yes, you could say 27 million Russians died in a colloquial sense; Russia being another name for the Soviet Union in popular parlance when it existed. But to conflate that with modern Russia is inaccurate.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Take your tedious antisemitic whinges elsewhere.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Try not to conflate Soviet citizens with Russians challenge [impossible]

[DaleCooper]

Get a job!

[Schiff for Senate]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I never said I agreed with OP's logic, I'm just applying it equally. Since I don't think Russia should be allowed to invade Ukraine because it is surrounded by countries that hate it, I also believe that Israel shouldn't be allowed to use the fact that they border places like Syria and Lebanon to oppress Palestinians.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The USSR saw that many deaths, which came from the various other non-Russian Soviet Republics. Ukraine was one of the main victims of the slaughter, and the horrendous thing is that planned Generalplan Ost was an express statement that essentially every Ukrainian would either be deported or "germanized" over time.

[Schiff for Senate]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I never said I agreed with OP's logic, I'm just applying it equally. Since I don't think Russia should be allowed to invade Ukraine because it is surrounded by countries that hate it, I also believe that Israel shouldn't be allowed to use the fact that they border places like Syria and Lebanon to oppress Palestinians.

Good to hear that that’s the case.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Why aren't Russians seen as a protected victim class even though they suffered more than almost any other group in the 20th century, including the death of 27 million of them at the hands of Nazis?

In large part because the Nazis killed plenty of other groups in Eastern Europe as well, many of which were much more expressly and definitionally targeted than Russians were. Also, most people do (rightly) see Russians as victims in the specific context of World War II. The fact that they fought back and eventually, thank God, won, militates against their being treated as the Little Nell of world powers, though.

Why, despite this history, are their concerns about Nazism in Ukraine not taken seriously?

Why a country with this history would be so flippant and unserious about it on the diplomatic stage is an excellent question, yes.

I can think of a certain other country that is allowed to get away with horrendous war crimes and use "we were victims of the Nazis" as an excuse.

And do you think that that's a morally acceptable state of affairs, or not?

Even though Palestinians are completely innocent of collaborating with Nazis,

[dubious – discuss]

while Ukrainian nationalists aren't.

Depends on which Ukrainian nationalists. There are definitely people in the Kyiv and Lviv local governments whose preferred historiographies trend in unsettling directions, but internal ideological spectra have a way of temporarily ceasing to matter during wars of national survival.

[Middle-aged Europe]

If I have to read a load of Russian nationalist propaganda drivel the very least I excpect is that I'm gonna get paid for it.

[SlavicOrthodoxWolf]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Both the Soviets and the Palestinian Arab religious leadership collaborated with the Nazis.

[HisGrace]

I think everyone does think of Russians as victims in WWII. Their own government signing Molotov–Ribbentrop to start with probably contributed to that, though.

Why, despite this history, are their concerns about Nazism in Ukraine not taken seriously?

Because there is no evidence that there is significant neo-nazi activity in Ukraine and certainly not amongst the government.

Also the Israelis haven't done anything this blatantly unprovoked in recent history, the Six Day War was over 50 years ago and even then there's evidence it was preemptive. And there was widespread support for the Nazis in the Arab world with Arab governments continuing to have economic and diplomatic ties with them throughout the war, so even that point doesn't hold water.

[SlavicOrthodoxWolf]

Because there is no evidence that there is significant neo-nazi activity in Ukraine and certainly not amongst the government.

LOL

And if you seriously think the Special Operation in Ukraine was "unprovoked" you are beyond help

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

Pro-Girkin hack, then. Go back to Telegram.

[Schiff for Senate]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

No, correction: you're just an anti-Ukraine hack, and you give all supporters of Palestine and good-faith critics of Israel (and I count myself in both those groups) a bad name.

[DaleCooper]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

No, correction: you're just an anti-Ukraine hack, and you give all supporters of Palestine and good-faith critics of Israel (and I count myself in both those groups) a bad name.

He's obviously some weird unemployed incel troll. Stop responding to him and he'll disappear.

[Schiff for Senate]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

No, correction: you're just an anti-Ukraine hack, and you give all supporters of Palestine and good-faith critics of Israel (and I count myself in both those groups) a bad name.

He's obviously some weird unemployed incel troll. Stop responding to him and he'll disappear.

You’re right. I’ve advised others to stop interacting with him, but I suppose I should stop behaving like the religious right and actually practice what I preach as well.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

"Only" 14% of the USSR's population died. On the contrary, over 40% of the Jewish population was killed.

Regardless, your logic that Russia can do whatever since it is surrounded by NATO imperialism should also apply to Israel, since it is surrounded by countries that hate it.

It's done plenty to warrant some of that hate - let's not pretend Israel is solely the victim here and doesn't do anything wrong and has never done anything wrong. We get plenty of that from the politicians in DC already. In any case, I think Israel's doing just fine with the US, not to mention plenty of other heavy-hitters, safely in its pocket. The way most American politicians - in both parties, to be sure - grovel for Israel and close their eyes and ears to anything bad it does (and yes, there's plenty) is beyond pathetic.

That said, the OP is a Massive HP and this schtick of his is quite disgusting (and, to be sure, NOT AT ALL representative of the way most of the moderates on the Israel/Palestine debate, or the pro-Palestine people, think - they support Ukraine, unlike the OP, who is a pro-Putin hack).

I'm not a pro-Putin hack. I have been critical of Putin on many occasions. In fact I am thoroughly disgusted by the way he just sat by for eight years while the Ukrainian fascist regime genocided Russians in Donbass. It's good that he FINALLY decided to act, but he should have done it years ago.

Imagine hating Putin because he didn't murder Ukrainians fast enough.

[MarkD]

This probably is not an answer to your question, but I am posting this because this thread reminded me of the comic book/graphic novel Watchmen.

In Chapter 4 of the story, the "Introduction" to a certain book was printed on the final four pages of the chapter. The book was called "Dr. Manhattan: Super-Powers and the Superpowers," written by Professor Milton Glass. In the Introduction, Prof. Glass discussed whether or not Dr. Manhattan was truly going to be an effective deterrent to the Soviet Union initiating WW3 - a global thermonuclear war that would end life on Earth. Here is part of what it says:

To understand the Russian attitude to the possibility of a third world war one must first understand their attitude to the second. In WWII, none of the allied powers fought to bitterly or sustained such losses as did the Russians. It was Hitler's lack of success in his assault upon the Soviet heartland that assured his eventual defeat, and though it was paid for mostly by Soviet lives, the entire world reaped the benefits. In time, the Russian contribution to the war effort has been downplayed and dismissed -- most noticeably as our political differences became wider -- as we glorified our own contributions while forgetting that of our estranged former allies. The Russians, however, have not forgotten. There are still those who remember the horror of a war fought on their soil, and almost certainly there are members of the Politburo in that category. From my reading of various pronouncements made by the Russian high council over the years, I am convinced that they will never again permit their nation to be threatened in a similar manner, no matter what the cost.