BREAKING: US has traded Russian arms dealer, Viktor Bout (Merchant of Death) for Brittney Griner

[emailking]

I'm shocked Russia agreed to this deal without getting a commitment from the United States to abandon Ukraine.

We would have never gone for that and Putin wanted this guy back badly.

[Хahar 🤔]

Strongly oppose this idiotic and completely unjustifiable decision.  What a disgrace!

Why is it unjustifiable?

[NewYorkExpress]

I'm shocked Russia agreed to this deal without getting a commitment from the United States to abandon Ukraine.

We would have never gone for that and Putin wanted this guy back badly.

Without getting that, it's a horrible deal for Russia (not that it's any better for us)

[emailking]

As for Whelan I don't care what he's done I wish we could have gotten him back too. But I guess Russia sees him as a different category and we probably have to give back a spy or something to get him.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, Putin isn't Stalin. Stalin was basically like "I have no spy" when one of the greatest spies ever, Richard Sorge, was captured by Japan and "I have no son" when his son was captured by Germany.

[Schiff for Senate]

Ah yes it's great that we freed the literal Merchant Of Death to get an athlete back. I don't care that this is a terrible trade. Luuuuv her identity categories, slaaaay qween!

For the record, I'd oppose this even if it was both Whelan and Griner. Viktor Bout should not be freed under any circumstance.

This, except for the very last part: "under any circumstances," in theory, is a very extreme statement to make. Say we were talking Russia releasing 50 American civilians in exchange for Bout - that's definitely a deal worth considering if not immediately accepting. Of course, if we're restricting it to only "under any realistic circumstances," then yes.

If this was the best deal we could get, well, we shouldn't have done it. Objectively, a basketball player - NBA, WNBA, I truly don't care who it is and from which organization - is not worth this very dangerous arms dealer.


EDIT: that said, I also think you're reading too much into the identity politics aspect. I do truly believe it had little to do with Griner's race/gender/sexuality. Of course, it's a bad deal nonetheless, and a poor decision on Biden's part.

[Schiff for Senate]

Paul Whelan seems to have become a living embodiment of whataboutism.

Nothing against him personally, I hope a deal can be worked out to get him home too, but he is unwittingly being used as a shield to manipulate the right into making them think this was somehow an either or situation where a basketball player (no dog-whistle there, of course) was prioritized over a veteran who the Biden administration apparently doesn't care about rotting in a Russian prison.

Can't we just be happy that an American at all was finally rescued from such a nightmare?

Brittney Griner's attitude towards her country has made that difficult for many.  She's brought that on all by herself.   I'm happy she's home because 9 years in prison for weed is cruel and unjustified,  so it's doing the right thing,  all things considered.

I'm happy that an American citizen was ransomed.   And everyone here would want the government to move Heaven and Earth for THEIR  loved one,  and would want everyone to put aside their past ingratitude if they were guilty of that.

Truly, what are you ever referencing? Is there a specific incident you're referring to, or what?

[Schiff for Senate]

Biden really having an incredible run here. Again, getting us into more sh*t done.

Amazing for Brittany and her family.

Fixed it for you (though the "again" part isn't really true since most of Biden's actions have been good, this one being more of an exception than the rule).

"Amazing for Brittany and her family." Sure, but what about Bout's next victims, and their families?

This deal was NOT worth it. We're releasing a highly dangerous arms dealer, who's going to definitely be the reason behind many more deaths (I mean, his name is literally "Merchant of Death!") for a basketball player? Really? Yes, I get that she's American and she was being treated unjustly. But this deal was truly not a fair deal, and if this was the best we could get, Biden should have absolutely turned him down. We didn't need to get Griner at all costs. More like, we need to keep this dangerous arms dealer who we captured with great difficulty locked up at all costs. And now we've released him, all for one civilian? Believe me, even if she was a star NBA player, I would oppose this. Even if the Russians offered Griner+Whelan for Bout, it wouldn't be a fair deal (though it would obviously be better than the one we got).

[jojoju1998]

This is why I don't envy Presidents when they have to make foreign policy decisions.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I never understood why this basketball player is somehow equivalent to an actual arms trafficker. Could they not have exchanged her for some kind of spy or something?

Affirmative action. If she were a straight white man this would have never happened. It's pure political pandering and a totally shameful deal.

You think a white male prominent professional athlete in that situation would have just been ignored? What planet are you living on? If Jared Goff were being held in that position people would be up in arms calling for far more concessions to ensure his safety.

Jared Goff would never be in Russia to play his sport, since he’s paid $33 million a year to start for the Detroit Lions, a team worth $3 billion. A more fair hypothetical would be if Alex Caruso, a prominent white NBA role player nicknamed the “Bald Mamba” were arrested in Russia for marijuana possession. I’m extremely confident Biden wouldn’t have lifted a finger to get him out.

This move is identity politics at its worst.

President Biden would do all he can to bring any American athlete home, regardless of their identity. If anyone in this thread is making a big display of cringe identity politics is you Republicans who immediately jumped on the train. Your Republican identity politics are SAD and WEIRD!

[Woody]

[Farmlands]

Yes, the US gave up a man Putin has a vested interest in and a clear danger to its interests for an athlete. But they warmed the feelings of liberals, and isn't that what truly matters in the end? On a more serious note, not surprising but still disgusting that some here are trying to frame any opposition as racism, as they always do.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian.

If you are going to make absurd and outrageous claims like this, you need evidence.

[SteveRogers]

I truly cannot wrap my head around all the “For a basketball player???” posts in this thread. We traded Bout for a basketball player because that’s who Russia was holding hostage. We didn’t get to choose which Americans Russia decided to imprison.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I truly cannot wrap my head around all the “For a basketball player???” posts in this thread. We traded Bout for a basketball player because that’s who Russia was holding hostage. We didn’t get to choose which Americans Russia decided to imprison.

     Getting a basketball player back isn't bad in itself of course, but trading a big-time illegal arms dealer is lowkey ridiculous. This is a massive strategic victory for Putin.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Ah yes it's great that we freed the literal Merchant Of Death to get an athlete back. I don't care that this is a terrible trade. Luuuuv her identity categories, slaaaay qween!

For the record, I'd oppose this even if it was both Whelan and Griner. Viktor Bout should not be freed under any circumstance.

Bout is being freed anyway in a decade.

By "freed", you mean extradited to other countries which also wish to press charges.

[SteveRogers]

I truly cannot wrap my head around all the “For a basketball player???” posts in this thread. We traded Bout for a basketball player because that’s who Russia was holding hostage. We didn’t get to choose which Americans Russia decided to imprison.

     Getting a basketball player back isn't bad in itself of course, but trading a big-time illegal arms dealer is lowkey ridiculous. This is a massive strategic victory for Putin.

Okay, if your position is that the arms dealer shouldn’t be traded for anyone under any circumstances, then why not just say that? Why do the critics of the trade keep focusing on “For what? Some basketball player?” as if that’s how we’re supposed to weigh human lives?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I truly cannot wrap my head around all the “For a basketball player???” posts in this thread. We traded Bout for a basketball player because that’s who Russia was holding hostage. We didn’t get to choose which Americans Russia decided to imprison.

     Getting a basketball player back isn't bad in itself of course, but trading a big-time illegal arms dealer is lowkey ridiculous. This is a massive strategic victory for Putin.

Okay, if your position is that the arms dealer shouldn’t be traded for anyone under any circumstances, then why not just say that? Why do the critics of the trade keep focusing on “For what? Some basketball player?” as if that’s how we’re supposed to weigh human lives?

     There theoretically could be someone of enough value to justify trading the arms dealer, but a random basketball player doesn't meet that criterion. And while I wouldn't generally weigh human lives in that fashion, the government has to make these decisions for the good of the country. If Putin had asked for Robert Hanssen in exchange for Brittney Griner, should we just oblige him because it's wrong to weigh human lives?

[ugabug]

I truly cannot wrap my head around all the “For a basketball player???” posts in this thread. We traded Bout for a basketball player because that’s who Russia was holding hostage. We didn’t get to choose which Americans Russia decided to imprison.

But there are other Americans who've been imprisoned in Russia since before she was arrested but the media never seemed to pick up any of their stories like they did with hers.

I can't help but fear that the only reason the Biden administration made bringing her back such a priority that they were willing to trade Bout for her is because the media has been following her story closely since her arrest back in February and the only reason the media has been following her story so closely is because she happens to be d-list celebrity.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I don’t know whether I support this deal on net or not; I can see reasonable arguments on both sides.

But my big question would be: why did it take so long?  It seems like this deal specifically was proposed within days of Griner being arrested.  If we’re willing to take this sort of deal, why not take it before she has to go through almost a year of such horrible treatment? What exactly was the sticking point in negotiations that required them to take nine months?

[Woody]

Ah yes it's great that we freed the literal Merchant Of Death to get an athlete back. I don't care that this is a terrible trade. Luuuuv her identity categories, slaaaay qween!

For the record, I'd oppose this even if it was both Whelan and Griner. Viktor Bout should not be freed under any circumstance.

Bout is being freed anyway in a decade.

By "freed", you mean extradited to other countries which also wish to press charges.

?? Wut

Bout is not wanted by any agencies in Russia nor under any charges.

The whole Kremlin narrative was that he was an innocent guy.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Ah yes it's great that we freed the literal Merchant Of Death to get an athlete back. I don't care that this is a terrible trade. Luuuuv her identity categories, slaaaay qween!

For the record, I'd oppose this even if it was both Whelan and Griner. Viktor Bout should not be freed under any circumstance.

Bout is being freed anyway in a decade.

By "freed", you mean extradited to other countries which also wish to press charges.

?? Wut

Bout is not wanted by any agencies in Russia nor under any charges.

The whole Kremlin narrative was that he was an innocent guy.

Yes, but if he had finished his sentence in America, it seems likely the USA would have extradited him to other countries rather than letting him return to Russia as a free man.

[Lil Miss Missy]

It's not like the arms dealer is still dealing arms, or even like he'll still have his own connections. Besides, the US government deals arms all the time. Let's not be hypocritical. Griner needed to come home.

[Stranger in a strange land]

The Israelis who nobody would ever excuse of being soft, will trade multiple bad dudes to get back one of their citizens. They do it because they value their people and their citizens. I support what Biden did, Viktor Bout can be dealt with later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_prisoner_exchanges#2010s

From what I can see these Israeli exchanges were for Israeli soldiers, not civilians. Are there significant exchanges Israel has done to free Israeli civilians who were kidnapped/detained arbitrarily?

I think if Griner were a soldier (or a US intelligence asset), there would be no possible objection to trading for her return.

But trading for civilians is a different matter, and sets up the precedent that could possibly lead to open season for kidnapping American civilians abroad more generally. That will presumably not happen as a result of a single case, but if this is a pattern with how the US deals with these sorts of things, then we could start seeing an upsurge in hostage taking/kidnapping of random American civilians.

  Military service is mandatory in Israel with some exceptions so this might be distinction without a difference.

Fair enough, but a deal in which one Israeli soldier is released for thousands of Palestinians is very obviously a bad deal for Israel. Just like releasing a dangerous arms dealer like Bout in exchange for Griner (or Wehlan, or both for that matter) is a bad deal for the U.S.

[GP270watch]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian. Just show some accountability for how you actually feel, please, and stop insulting the collective dignity and intellect of my community.

 This is basically what I'm seeing on Twitter, the usual suspects who hate Black and/or Gay people are salty. Especially when bringing up the court-martialed Marine because it fits their narrative better and of course never mentioning that part.

 Nonsense tweets like this:
https://twitter.com/thecjpearson/status/1600881740444098560