Does the U.S. criminal justice system do more harm than good?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 01:07:08 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Constitution and Law (Moderator: World politics is up Schmitt creek)
  Does the U.S. criminal justice system do more harm than good?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Well?  
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
Unsure
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 35

Author Topic: Does the U.S. criminal justice system do more harm than good?  (Read 1511 times)
LBJer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,607
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: December 06, 2022, 02:20:11 PM »

I voted yes. 
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,248


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2022, 10:31:53 AM »

It depends on what you're comparing it to. Some of the specific appurtenances of our criminal justice system like the creepy submerged-state aspects, ludicrously overpowered local police forces, lack of a clear career-track distinction between judges and prosecutors, and emphasis on long-term incarceration pretty obviously do more damage to our social fabric than they are worth, but it is still a lot better than a hypothetical state of Hobbesian anarchy or something. I voted yes.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2022, 01:10:45 AM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.
Logged
the artist formerly known as catmusic
schnittdoodle
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,180
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.16, S: -7.91

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2022, 01:35:38 AM »

Absolutely yes. It needs to be seriously reformed.

Far from the worst in the world, though.
Logged
crazy jimmie
jamespol
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,513


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2022, 11:53:25 AM »

We need a criminal justice system. But our system is clearly biased against the poor. Especially biased against blacks and latinos (to a lesser extent).
Logged
Mister Mets
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,434
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2022, 04:25:54 AM »

It's imperfect, but significantly better than not having it.
Logged
SWE
SomebodyWhoExists
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,234
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2022, 10:05:34 AM »

It does no good whatsoever
Logged
LBJer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,607
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2023, 05:52:43 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2023, 08:52:16 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.
Logged
LBJer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,607
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2023, 08:57:34 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

How would society clearly be worse? 
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2023, 09:03:51 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

How would society clearly be worse? 
you just said we need SOME kind of criminal justice.  If we didn't have it, life would be worse.  Thus it does more good than harm.  Doing more harm than good would mean it would be better to NOT have it.

I 100% agree that our criminal justice system isn't ideal and many of the outcomes are bad.  All systems could use a little reforming.  There are thousands of people who come into it as not very good humans and come out of it far far worse.  But there are thousands of not very good humans that turn out far far worse that never step foot in a prison.  It's not like US prisons are the only place that creates bad Americans.

If we didn't have the criminal justice system, America would be worse, thus it doesn't do more harm than good.
Logged
LBJer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,607
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2023, 09:33:09 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

How would society clearly be worse? 
you just said we need SOME kind of criminal justice.  If we didn't have it, life would be worse.  Thus it does more good than harm. 

Saying that we need "SOME kind of criminal justice" doesn't necessarily mean that what we DO have does more good than harm.  In terms of harm it could be:

A different system > No system > What we have
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2023, 09:44:46 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

How would society clearly be worse? 
you just said we need SOME kind of criminal justice.  If we didn't have it, life would be worse.  Thus it does more good than harm. 

Saying that we need "SOME kind of criminal justice" doesn't necessarily mean that what we DO have does more good than harm.  In terms of harm it could be:

A different system > No system > What we have
but that's not what it is, it is more like:
all the better systems possible > what we have > a worse system > no system > the worst possible systems

But we can't get past this.  What are some ways our system could be better?  I'd suggest we stop putting people who do "crimes" with no victims in jail with violent thugs.
Logged
LBJer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,607
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2023, 09:46:29 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

How would society clearly be worse? 
you just said we need SOME kind of criminal justice.  If we didn't have it, life would be worse.  Thus it does more good than harm. 

Saying that we need "SOME kind of criminal justice" doesn't necessarily mean that what we DO have does more good than harm.  In terms of harm it could be:

A different system > No system > What we have
but that's not what it is, it is more like:
all the better systems possible > what we have > a worse system > no system > the worst possible systems


Well, that's your opinion, not a fact. 
Logged
TDAS04
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,465
Bhutan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2023, 09:53:03 PM »
« Edited: January 01, 2023, 10:14:00 PM by TDAS04 »

It needs serious reform, but there are plenty of worse justice systems in the world.  Also, the American system isn’t bad enough that no criminal justice system would be preferable, so I guess the answer to the poll is no.
Logged
Ferguson97
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,801
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2023, 08:20:13 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I don't know why you're assuming that you have to compare the current system to no system at all.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2023, 10:12:22 PM »

would we be better off without it?  No, of course not and only a complete and total moron, blinded by some amazingly stupid biases could possibly think we wouldn't be.  Seriously, think about it for 2 funking seconds.


of course "yes" is winning, you people are idiots.

This is a very poor argument.  We clearly need SOME type of criminal justice system.  All countries have one.  That's not the question.  The question is whether the one we have does more harm than good.  And the answer to that isn't nearly as clear as your post acts like it is. 
if we didn't have it, society would be worse.  Thus it doesn't do more harm than good.

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I don't know why you're assuming that you have to compare the current system to no system at all.
it's what the phrase "do more harm than good" means....what else could it mean?  We're adding up the "harms" and the "goods", seeing which pile is bigger.
Logged
Ferguson97
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,801
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2023, 05:05:15 PM »

it's what the phrase "do more harm than good" means....what else could it mean? 

No it's not? You're not comparing it to a specific alternative, you're looking at it in a vacuum. "Does the good things that the criminal justice system do outweigh the bad it does".

The question was not "compare the pros and cons of keeping vs abolishing the US justice system and replacing it with nothing".

We're adding up the "harms" and the "goods", seeing which pile is bigger.

Yes, exactly! That doesn't require you to compare it to an imagined alternative, or a not replacing it at all.
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2023, 09:40:59 PM »

I don't understand how this is a tie. The answer is clearly yes.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2023, 10:55:51 PM »

it's what the phrase "do more harm than good" means....what else could it mean? 

No it's not? You're not comparing it to a specific alternative, you're looking at it in a vacuum. "Does the good things that the criminal justice system do outweigh the bad it does".

The question was not "compare the pros and cons of keeping vs abolishing the US justice system and replacing it with nothing".
every definition online suggests it means "makes the situation worse, not better" or "To exacerbate the problem, rather than making it better, often in the process of trying".  There is never a third option that you seem to think exists.
Quote

We're adding up the "harms" and the "goods", seeing which pile is bigger.
Yes, exactly! That doesn't require you to compare it to an imagined alternative, or a not replacing it at all.
when you add up the harms and the goods, the goods clearly outweigh the harms.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.05 seconds with 14 queries.