Protests in China over Covid-19 restrictions

[NewYorkExpress]

If the protests mount, the U.S should take advantage by landing troops in Hong Kong and Macau.

if you simulate this as GM in atlasia, i hope you'll simulate atlasia getting nuked and the game ending as well or legislators dealing with nuclear fallout.

I promise you I would not attempt to simulate a nuclear war without consulting anyone else on the team. I do try to keep my personal political views separate from my position on the GM Team, just as I would if I were on the moderation team.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

If the protests mount, the U.S should take advantage by landing troops in Hong Kong and Macau.

if you simulate this as GM in atlasia, i hope you'll simulate atlasia getting nuked and the game ending as well or legislators dealing with nuclear fallout.

I assure you that NYE is a responsible hardworking member of the team and would not simulate such a thing without consulting with both us and likely other Atlasian politicians.

Please keep his personal politics separate from the game.

You need a joke detector.

If the protests mount, the U.S should take advantage by landing troops in Hong Kong and Macau.

if you simulate this as GM in atlasia, i hope you'll simulate atlasia getting nuked and the game ending as well or legislators dealing with nuclear fallout.

I promise you I would not attempt to simulate a nuclear war without consulting anyone else on the team. I do try to keep my personal political views separate from my position on the GM Team, just as I would if I were on the moderation team.

And that is the right approach, i agree with that and I appreciate the work you and other people are doing there.

[Lumine]

Given the lessons that Xi and the current CCP elites chose to learn from the fall of the Soviet Union - which is to say, that yielding power is a mistake, and that internal threats must be met harshly and ruthlessly - I can't see how this ends well.

Still, and leaving pessimism aside for a moment, it takes enormous courage to protest within a totalitarian framework, so my respect for those doing so.

[MABA 2020]

This is unlikely to have a positive outcome, but always inspiring to see people clamouring for freedom and human rights.

[2952-0-0]

Yeah, I think the most likely outcome is an iron fist, even harsher lockdowns, and then the economy entering a death spiral. Xi has proven that he responds to challenges like these by doubling down further, and will only take brief pauses on his intended path.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Technically the protests revolve around a strike and how that the private employers are keeping employees locked in the factory under the guise of a “lockdown”. The blame should be put mostly on Foxconn.

Why are private companies cracking down on strikes in a communist utopia?

[2952-0-0]

Technically the protests revolve around a strike and how that the private employers are keeping employees locked in the factory under the guise of a “lockdown”. The blame should be put mostly on Foxconn.

But would Foxconn have ordered a lockdown of its employees if it knew it didn't enjoy the unquestioned backing of the police?

[walleye26]

Interestingly, Apple shut off AirDrop in China…this is important because protestors were using airdrop to share photos and messages with everybody and avoiding censors. With Airdrop, they can bypass the censors since it doesn’t require Wifi.

Shame on Apple.

[It’s so Joever]

Interestingly, Apple shut off AirDrop in China…this is important because protestors were using airdrop to share photos and messages with everybody and avoiding censors. With Airdrop, they can bypass the censors since it doesn’t require Wifi.

Shame on Apple.

They need their cheap source of labor.

[lfromnj]

Something interesting is that usually when it comes to protests that a large percentage of commoners want and not just the liberals the CCP has generally been open to atleast a degree of reform to placate the masses. However now it seems that the CCP is idiotically committed down zero COVID and they can't back away . Those older protests would have just been anger against a specific policy but this time around it does seem like there is anger against the CCP itself for not listening.

In the end I dont realistically expect much to happen as I dont believe they will hit critical mass.

[walleye26]

Something interesting is that usually when it comes to protests that a large percentage of commoners want and not just the liberals the CCP has generally been open to atleast a degree of reform to placate the masses. However now it seems that the CCP is idiotically committed down zero COVID and they can't back away . Those older protests would have just been anger against a specific policy but this time around it does seem like there is anger against the CCP itself for not listening.

In the end I dont realistically expect much to happen as I dont believe they will hit critical mass.

I tend to agree since the Chinese police are using phone data to arrest protest leaders and going undercover in the crowds to get intel and shut these down.

[Beet]

From 2013:

The most striking part of Xi Jinping’s “new southern tour speech” is his revisiting the topic of the Soviet Union’s collapse. He said, “Why did the Soviet Union disintegrate? Why did the Soviet Communist Party collapse? An important reason was that their ideals and beliefs had been shaken. In the end, ‘the ruler’s flag over the city tower’ changed overnight. It’s a profound lesson for us! To dismiss the history of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Communist Party, to dismiss Lenin and Stalin, and to dismiss everything else is to engage in historic nihilism, and it confuses our thoughts and undermines the Party’s organizations on all levels.”

“Why must we stand firm on the Party’s leadership over the military?” Xi continued, “because that’s the lesson from the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union where the military was depoliticized, separated from the Party and nationalized, the party was disarmed. A few people tried to save the Soviet Union; they seized Gorbachev, but within days it was turned around again, because they didn’t have the instruments to exert power. Yeltsin gave a speech standing on a tank, but the military made no response, keeping so-called ‘neutrality.’ Finally, Gorbachev announced the disbandment of the Soviet Communist Party in a blithe statement. A big Party was gone just like that. Proportionally, the Soviet Communist Party had more members than we do, but nobody was man enough to stand up and resist.”

Cadres were ordered to watch a six-part documentary on the collapse of the Soviet Union, with a focus on the “bitter lessons” of Gorbachev’s leadership — which was released again in July.

A guy who thinks like that is not going to give up power easily.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

From 2013:

The most striking part of Xi Jinping’s “new southern tour speech” is his revisiting the topic of the Soviet Union’s collapse. He said, “Why did the Soviet Union disintegrate? Why did the Soviet Communist Party collapse? An important reason was that their ideals and beliefs had been shaken. In the end, ‘the ruler’s flag over the city tower’ changed overnight. It’s a profound lesson for us! To dismiss the history of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Communist Party, to dismiss Lenin and Stalin, and to dismiss everything else is to engage in historic nihilism, and it confuses our thoughts and undermines the Party’s organizations on all levels.”

“Why must we stand firm on the Party’s leadership over the military?” Xi continued, “because that’s the lesson from the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union where the military was depoliticized, separated from the Party and nationalized, the party was disarmed. A few people tried to save the Soviet Union; they seized Gorbachev, but within days it was turned around again, because they didn’t have the instruments to exert power. Yeltsin gave a speech standing on a tank, but the military made no response, keeping so-called ‘neutrality.’ Finally, Gorbachev announced the disbandment of the Soviet Communist Party in a blithe statement. A big Party was gone just like that. Proportionally, the Soviet Communist Party had more members than we do, but nobody was man enough to stand up and resist.”

Cadres were ordered to watch a six-part documentary on the collapse of the Soviet Union, with a focus on the “bitter lessons” of Gorbachev’s leadership — which was released again in July.

A guy who thinks like that is not going to give up power easily.

I mean obviously these protests could be a threat to a lot of regimes, but not the Chinese Communist party. I wish the protestors the best of luck, but the party is too authoritarian and too entrenched.

[dead0man]

Chinese protesters say police seeking them out

Several people in Beijing said police had called demanding information about their whereabouts.

It is unclear how police might have discovered their identities.

<snip>

Reports also say that police were stopping people and searching their phones to check if they had virtual private networks (VPNs) set up, as well as apps such as Telegram and Twitter which are blocked in China.

One woman told news agency AFP that she and five of her friends who attended a protest in Beijing had received phone calls from police.

In one case, a police officer visited her friend's home after they failed to answer their phone and asked whether they had visited the protest site, stressing that it was an "illegal assembly".

Another told Reuters that they were asked to show up at a police station to deliver a written record of their activities on Sunday night.

"We are all desperately deleting our chat history," one Beijing protester told Reuters. "Police came to check the ID of one of my friends and then took her away. A few hours later they released her."

Police have also detained journalists covering the protests in recent days. News agency Reuters said one of its journalists was briefly detained on Sunday before being released.

BBC journalist Ed Lawrence was also held for several hours while covering a protest in Shanghai on the same night. UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said his detention was "shocking and unacceptable", adding that Britain would raise concerns with China about its response to the protests.

[CumbrianLefty]

A lot of optimism on this thread, I see

Of course you are all very likely correct, but let's just appreciate how absolutely nobody saw what has happened coming* - the conventional wisdom that the large majority of Chinese people would just go along with whatever the regime did was very well established.

(*and that actually does include the CPC, or else they would have tried to head this unrest off)

[Enduro]

Interestingly, Apple shut off AirDrop in China…this is important because protestors were using airdrop to share photos and messages with everybody and avoiding censors. With Airdrop, they can bypass the censors since it doesn’t require Wifi.

Shame on Apple.

They need their cheap source of labor.

Apple has been a bad company for awhile, but this is a new low. I'm glad that I own none of their products.

[Enduro]

A lot of optimism on this thread, I see

Of course you are all very likely correct, but let's just appreciate how absolutely nobody saw what has happened coming* - the conventional wisdom that the large majority of Chinese people would just go along with whatever the regime did was very well established.

(and that actually does include the CPC, or else they would have tried to head this unrest off)

I know this is gonna end bad, but I'm really hoping something good comes from this.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Good overview of the lockdowns in China and reality on the ground.

Solidarity with the people of China, the home country of my Step-Mom and Grandparents since I was 5 years old. Growing up in the Bay Area with an "adopted" Chinese family, I absolutely do feel a fondness for the people and country who are so often misunderstood. At the very least this has to show that not even Xi Jinping is all-powerful and the Chinese people very much still have agency...Hopefully they use it.

[It’s so Joever]

A lot of optimism on this thread, I see

Of course you are all very likely correct, but let's just appreciate how absolutely nobody saw what has happened coming* - the conventional wisdom that the large majority of Chinese people would just go along with whatever the regime did was very well established.

(*and that actually does include the CPC, or else they would have tried to head this unrest off)

Funny enough I am on the more optimistic side of things here…I think there still exists a chance of this definitely working some reform at the very least (but the fact I say that probably means the protests aren’t going to do anything)

[MATTROSE94]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm generally in favor of more COVID precautions as opposed to fewer, but this is overkill. There's no need to barricade people inside a burning building.

Thank you for that groundbreaking observation.

I feel like a lot of people on this forum claim that COVID was never a big deal, when in reality it brought health systems in many countries to their breaking points for well over a year. We can acknowledge that, while also acknowledging that we don't need to do strict lockdowns now that most people have been vaccinated. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still be wearing masks in public indoor spaces - which I still do, especially with flu season here.

So yes. Just because the danger is no longer as acute doesn't mean it never existed. And for the record, I no longer want to move to China.

Do you think there still needs to be other NPIs like capacity restrictions or not at this time? I strongly supported such policies with the Wuhan 1.0 variant and a lessor version of those policies with the Delta variant, but overall have been opposed to COVID NPIs like capacity restrictions for about a year.

[Hammy]

If the protests mount, the U.S should take advantage by landing troops in Hong Kong and Macau.

No matter how bad things are in the world, I can still take comfort in the fact that you are far, far away from any sort of military decision making.