Israel General Discussion: Annus Horribilis
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2022, 04:08:12 PM »

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-gets-extension-until-dec-21-try-form-government-2022-12-09/

Looks like some issues forming the government.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2022, 01:16:33 PM »
« Edited: December 12, 2022, 02:36:33 PM by America Needs R'hllor »

Some of the clauses of the coalition agreement between Likud and UTJ:
- A Rabbinate representative will participate in the Shabbat work permit committee
- Electricity will not be produced on Saturday
- The government will finance Geniza (basically burying instead of trashing) of holy books
- The government will establish and finance bodies that will answer halachic questions received from the public
- The number of gender segregated beaches in the country will be expanded
- Haredi cities will benefit from an additional discount on public transportation
- Budget for ultra-Orthodox culture in the Ministry of Education - at least 100 million
- Affirmative preference will be given to ultra-Orthodox in government companies
- Hospital administrators will be able to prohibit the bringing of bread on Pesach
- More Talmud studies for secular students
- The closure of the Reform Department in the Diaspora Ministry will be considered
- Any government service provided online will also be provided over the phone or face to face (good, actually)
- The kosher phone reform of the previous government will be canceled

Approaching Iran levels. Honestly the electricity part is bizarre to me, I can't imagine them going for it- it's kipuach nefesh, life or death. I guess we'll see.

Likud: "we didn't agree to some of the parts, including electricity in Shabbat and and more segregated beaches", UTJ leader denies Likud's denial: "everything is decided"
So in sum, they agreed on it, someone leaked, and Likud got spooked
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2022, 02:48:36 PM »

Wow. So is this going be taken with a shrug because this is becoming theocratic.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2022, 02:06:54 AM »
« Edited: December 13, 2022, 02:11:48 AM by Hnv1 »

I think it's grand.

whenever the Haredi push it too much the Likud loses secular voters to the centre (2003, 2013). Their greed will cost them a lotץ

Yariv Levin does not want to take Ministry of Justice as Bibi won't pledge to fulfill the constitutional coup, which leads me to believe it's not going to happen. Bibi will simply wave a big sword over the judges' head and the AG pushing for a relaxed plea bargain.
Poor right wing voters actually thought Bibi cares about their ideology.
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Frodo
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2022, 03:25:32 PM »

Israeli Youth Lead Turn to the Far Right as Violence Increases
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Horus
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2022, 06:10:32 PM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2022, 08:06:56 AM »

Every December for the past decade a meme, known as the "Banksy Christmas Card", has popped up all over the internet. It depicts Joseph and Mary travelling to Bethlehem to give birth to Baby Jesus, but unable to get there, because the nasty old Israelis have built their nasty old wall in the way.

This is an interesting speculation, isn't it, fellow biblical scholars? First, we might note that the star did not shine over Bethlehem for Joseph and Mary, it shone for the Wise Men. But that's a minor point.

Much more important is the fact that Yossi and Miriam were Jews. They were travelling from Nazareth, which is in northern Israel, to Bethlehem, which is in the West Bank under control of the Palestinian Authority.

In this image, therefore, they are approaching Bethlehem from the Israeli side of the wall. The wall is doing what it was built to do, protecting them and all other Israelis from being attacked by Palestinian suicide bombers and knife-murderers. Any Jewish couple who arrived in Bethlehem today seeking room at the inn would probably be lynched.

So now Yossi and Miriam can turn around and go back to Jerusalem and have their baby Josh in a nice modern hospital. Here endeth the lesson for today,
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2022, 09:45:08 AM »

Any comments on how Israel moves ever closer to an authoritarian theocratic ethnostate, pal?
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2022, 10:54:58 PM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2022, 11:40:08 PM »

The Palestinian political parties and militias have caused that hatred to be fair. No wonder Abbas and Hamas don't want to embrace liberalisation or free and fair elections.

Again, we should only feel sorry for the Palestinian *people*. They hate their self appointed leaders and the thugs that they hide behind as much as Western governments do.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2022, 10:35:34 AM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.

Well, we will see I suppose.

Though you would surely agree that theocrats aren't terribly well disposed to gay rights on the whole.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2022, 11:28:14 AM »

The Palestinian political parties and militias have caused that hatred to be fair. No wonder Abbas and Hamas don't want to embrace liberalisation or free and fair elections.

Again, we should only feel sorry for the Palestinian *people*. They hate their self appointed leaders and the thugs that they hide behind as much as Western governments do.
We know you don't care about the Palestinian people.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2022, 02:54:22 PM »

The Palestinian political parties and militias have caused that hatred to be fair. No wonder Abbas and Hamas don't want to embrace liberalisation or free and fair elections.

Again, we should only feel sorry for the Palestinian *people*. They hate their self appointed leaders and the thugs that they hide behind as much as Western governments do.
We know you don't care about the Palestinian people.
If you treat the self-appointed political and military leadership as their actual representatives, then neither do you.
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2022, 05:03:11 PM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.

Well, we will see I suppose.

Though you would surely agree that theocrats aren't terribly well disposed to gay rights on the whole.
Naturally, although a lot of young Israelis are more of the secular nationalist types not to dissimilar from the younger MAGA base.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2022, 01:56:19 AM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.
I don’t think the Israeli left is less accepting of gay people than the centre. The centre likes their rich gay men and women but I don’t think you’ll find queer/trans issues penetrate right of Meretz. If by left you mean the Arab parties then yes but it’s not on leftist ground like the Greek communists, and calling them left is a little superficial.

Among some of the veterans (me included) there is sometimes a sense where LGBT topics come instead of the Palestinian issue and turns us into a sectarian bloc instead of offering a more comprehensive ideology that can speak to most Israelis on their terms. And a lot of us have a very leftist objection to funding the commodification of children in the third world so rich Israeli gays could form families.
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2022, 02:00:23 AM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.
I don’t think the Israeli left is less accepting of gay people than the centre. The centre likes their rich gay men and women but I don’t think you’ll find queer/trans issues penetrate right of Meretz. If by left you mean the Arab parties then yes but it’s not on leftist ground like the Greek communists, and calling them left is a little superficial.

Among some of the veterans (me included) there is sometimes a sense where LGBT topics come instead of the Palestinian issue and turns us into a sectarian bloc instead of offering a more comprehensive ideology that can speak to most Israelis on their terms. And a lot of us have a very leftist objection to funding the commodification of children in the third world so rich Israeli gays could form families.

On that note are positions like Netanyahu's in terms of LGBT rights (support with a mandatory 'we are much better than the Arab countries on this issue' at the end) common?
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Hnv1
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« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2022, 02:23:12 AM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.
I don’t think the Israeli left is less accepting of gay people than the centre. The centre likes their rich gay men and women but I don’t think you’ll find queer/trans issues penetrate right of Meretz. If by left you mean the Arab parties then yes but it’s not on leftist ground like the Greek communists, and calling them left is a little superficial.

Among some of the veterans (me included) there is sometimes a sense where LGBT topics come instead of the Palestinian issue and turns us into a sectarian bloc instead of offering a more comprehensive ideology that can speak to most Israelis on their terms. And a lot of us have a very leftist objection to funding the commodification of children in the third world so rich Israeli gays could form families.

On that note are positions like Netanyahu's in terms of LGBT rights (support with a mandatory 'we are much better than the Arab countries on this issue' at the end) common?
Bibi has a position? I’ve been hearing him since the 90’s and not once did he have any clear stand on social issues or advocated some policy. All political issues for him are reduced in their instrumental utility advancing foreign policy. Even his Laisser-faire positions evaporated. He gets free hand in foreign policy and his partners milk the public fund.

And yes, the right, but even more so the centre, likes the bragging about gay rights over our neighbours.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2022, 01:04:32 AM »

Bibi notified the president he has formed a government, a confidence vote will take place by Monday, January 2.

After a hard squeeze Likud agreed that the next coalition will legislate a Basic Law: Torah Learning that will prevent judicial review of the draft exemption law (if your memory serves you well that's what started this whole thing in 2019).
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2022, 02:53:53 AM »


Of course. I've called this for a decade now.

In most countries the youth lean left, but in Israel they are reactionary religious conservatives. It won't be long before gay rights are rolled back there too making Israel even more indistinguishable from the neighbors it constantly claims moral superiority over.

Any evidence on the LGBTQ rights part?

Israel is unique politically on the matter, with those on the left actually less accepting of gay people than those in the center. I would assume part of this is similar to Reagan nostalgia in that older Israelis remember the old leftist governments.

Younger Israelis lean more to the right in terms of hating Palestinians, but the idea that most of them have Iranian-level takes on LGBTQ rights is comical.
I don’t think the Israeli left is less accepting of gay people than the centre. The centre likes their rich gay men and women but I don’t think you’ll find queer/trans issues penetrate right of Meretz. If by left you mean the Arab parties then yes but it’s not on leftist ground like the Greek communists, and calling them left is a little superficial.

Among some of the veterans (me included) there is sometimes a sense where LGBT topics come instead of the Palestinian issue and turns us into a sectarian bloc instead of offering a more comprehensive ideology that can speak to most Israelis on their terms. And a lot of us have a very leftist objection to funding the commodification of children in the third world so rich Israeli gays could form families.

Yeah, saying the center is more pro gay than the left makes no sense and isn't backed by polls.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2022, 09:41:53 AM »

Unless your definition of "the left" is unreconstructed tankies and literally nobody else.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2022, 11:24:03 AM »

According to the agreement between Likud and Otzma, they will repeal the section that cites "racist incitement" as a reason to ban a candidate or party, which is the section used to ban Marzel and Ben Ari. Looking forward to our newest nazi stars next election!

Additionally, journalists Nadav Eyal reported about black lists the Noam party compiled of out LGBT people in the media, in education, government organizations, NGOs and more.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2022, 01:10:43 PM »

Absolutely terrifying stuff. Please take care, everyone.
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« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2022, 02:37:43 AM »

We shouldn't give military aid to a Kahanist government.
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Coldstream
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« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2022, 06:15:47 AM »

According to the agreement between Likud and Otzma, they will repeal the section that cites "racist incitement" as a reason to ban a candidate or party, which is the section used to ban Marzel and Ben Ari. Looking forward to our newest nazi stars next election!

Additionally, journalists Nadav Eyal reported about black lists the Noam party compiled of out LGBT people in the media, in education, government organizations, NGOs and more.

Even if empowering fascist thugs like Otzma wasn’t immoral, I can’t help feeling Netanyahu is also being monumentally stupid? Surely by bringing them in to the mainstream and normalising/legitimising them it’ll threaten his electoral base going forward. He may well be signing his own death warrant going forwards.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2022, 07:18:21 AM »

Being cynical, at his age now he sees "the future" as somebody else's problem?
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