Do you believe in the existence of the hell?

[HillGoose]

Yes, for everyone and everything that ever lived without exception.

it may not be exactly like a lot of religions envision it, it's probably much worse. endless and ever-increasing pain for all of eternity.

the theory i think is most likely is that extradimensional demons feast on ur suffering for all of eternity, they have put an energy field around the earth that prevents ur soul from escaping. this is y it is important for humans to get to mars and become one with the martians to possibly escape eternal torment.

but it may encompass the entire universe. which is why CERN is the greatest force for good ever created if the conspiracy theory that they are trying to move us into other dimensions is true.

god is dead but the demons that rule our world and possibly our whole universe aren't and they never will be.

What evidence lead you to this unique belief?

seems like the logical conclusion to me i guess idk

[Biden his time]

Thank you for your response. This is one of the most evil and terrifying things I’ve ever read on Atlas.

From my experience when you call things "evil" they actually are good, so I don't mind this.
This is just basic Islamic theology that 2 billion people today believe in.

But it'd also be the truth even if nobody were to believe in it, as will inevitably happen in the End Times before Yaum ul-Qiyamah (the Day of Judgement).

Why is your God so arrogant and self-centered that he would eternally torment those who do not worship him?

The thing is that you have free will. You can choose to follow Allah (SWT) and every day someone doesn't they are making a conscious decision not to. This doesn't make Allah (SWT) self-centered or arrogant (Astaghfirullah). In fact, Allah (SWT) is Ar-Rahman (the beneficient) and Ar-Raheem (the ever-merciful). The fact that we are here today living this life is just proof of this.

But Allah (SWT) is not only merciful and generous, he is also Al-Hakam or the one who delivers justice. That (Hellfire) is what justice looks like. This is something impossible for someone who is willfully ignorant or ungrateful to understand.

Surah Baqarah Ayat 13 to 18 - وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ ءَامِنُوا۟ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلنَّاسُ قَالُوٓا۟ أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ وَلَـٰكِن لَّا يَعْلَمُونَ, وَإِذَا لَقُوا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ قَالُوٓا۟ ءَامَنَّا وَإِذَا خَلَوْا۟ إِلَىٰ شَيَـٰطِينِهِمْ قَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّا مَعَكُمْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُسْتَهْزِءُونَ, , ٱللَّهُ يَسْتَهْزِئُ بِهِمْ وَيَمُدُّهُمْ فِى طُغْيَـٰنِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ, أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱشْتَرَوُا۟ ٱلضَّلَـٰلَةَ بِٱلْهُدَىٰ فَمَا رَبِحَت تِّجَـٰرَتُهُمْ وَمَا كَانُوا۟ مُهْتَدِينَ, مَثَلُهُمْ كَمَثَلِ ٱلَّذِى ٱسْتَوْقَدَ نَارًۭا فَلَمَّآ أَضَآءَتْ مَا حَوْلَهُۥ ذَهَبَ ٱللَّهُ بِنُورِهِمْ وَتَرَكَهُمْ فِى ظُلُمَـٰتٍۢ لَّا يُبْصِرُونَ, صُمٌّۢ بُكْمٌ عُمْىٌۭ فَهُمْ لَا يَرْجِعُونَ - And when they are told, “Believe as others believe,” they reply, “Will we believe as the fools believe?” Indeed, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. When they meet the believers they say, “We believe.” But when alone with their evil associates they say, “We are definitely with you; we were only mocking.” Allah will throw their mockery back at them, leaving them to continue wandering blindly in their defiance. They are the ones who trade guidance for misguidance. But this trade is profitless, and they are not ˹rightly˺ guided. Their example is that of someone who kindles a fire, but when it lights up all around them, Allah takes away their light, leaving them in complete darkness—unable to see. They are ˹wilfully˺ deaf, dumb, and blind, so they will never return ˹to the Right Path˺.

Surah Munafiqun Ayah 3 - ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ ءَامَنُوا۟ ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا۟ فَطُبِعَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ فَهُمْ لَا يَفْقَهُونَ - This is because they believed and then abandoned faith. Therefore, their hearts have been sealed, so they do not comprehend.

Only on Yaum ul-Qiyamah, when they are utterly faced with the truth with no way to deny it, will they finally realize the error of their ways. But it will be too late by then.

Surah Mu'minun Ayat 99 to 100 - حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا جَآءَ أَحَدَهُمُ ٱلْمَوْتُ قَالَ رَبِّ ٱرْجِعُونِ, لَعَلِّىٓ أَعْمَلُ صَـٰلِحًۭا فِيمَا تَرَكْتُ ۚ كَلَّآ ۚ إِنَّهَا كَلِمَةٌ هُوَ قَآئِلُهَا ۖ وَمِن وَرَآئِهِم بَرْزَخٌ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ - When death approaches any of them, they cry, “My Lord! Let me go back, so I may do good in what I left behind.” Never! It is only a ˹useless˺ appeal they make. And there is a barrier behind them until the Day they are resurrected.

Surah An'am Ayat 27 to 30 - وَلَوْ تَرَىٰٓ إِذْ وُقِفُوا۟ عَلَى ٱلنَّارِ فَقَالُوا۟ يَـٰلَيْتَنَا نُرَدُّ وَلَا نُكَذِّبَ بِـَٔايَـٰتِ رَبِّنَا وَنَكُونَ مِنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ, بَلْ بَدَا لَهُم مَّا كَانُوا۟ يُخْفُونَ مِن قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَوْ رُدُّوا۟ لَعَادُوا۟ لِمَا نُهُوا۟ عَنْهُ وَإِنَّهُمْ لَكَـٰذِبُونَ, وَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنْ هِىَ إِلَّا حَيَاتُنَا ٱلدُّنْيَا وَمَا نَحْنُ بِمَبْعُوثِينَ, وَلَوْ تَرَىٰٓ إِذْ وُقِفُوا۟ عَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ ۚ قَالَ أَلَيْسَ هَـٰذَا بِٱلْحَقِّ ۚ قَالُوا۟ بَلَىٰ وَرَبِّنَا ۚ قَالَ فَذُوقُوا۟ ٱلْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ, قَدْ خَسِرَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا۟ بِلِقَآءِ ٱللَّهِ ۖ حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا جَآءَتْهُمُ ٱلسَّاعَةُ بَغْتَةًۭ قَالُوا۟ يَـٰحَسْرَتَنَا عَلَىٰ مَا فَرَّطْنَا فِيهَا وَهُمْ يَحْمِلُونَ أَوْزَارَهُمْ عَلَىٰ ظُهُورِهِمْ ۚ أَلَا سَآءَ مَا يَزِرُونَ - If only you could see when they will be detained before the Fire! They will cry, “Oh! If only we could be sent back, we would never deny the signs of our Lord and we would ˹surely˺ be of the believers.” But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars! They insisted, “There is nothing beyond this worldly life and we will never be resurrected.” But if only you could see when they will be detained before their Lord! He will ask ˹them˺, “Is this ˹Hereafter˺ not the truth?” They will cry, “Absolutely, by our Lord!” He will say, “Then taste the punishment for your disbelief.”

Do you have any reason for believing that this is a just outcome beyond “he’s god, he knows everything, who am I to question him?”

Why would I need one or dare to want one?

[Ferguson97]

The thing is that you have free will. You can choose to follow Allah (SWT) and every day someone doesn't they are making a conscious decision not to. This doesn't make Allah (SWT) self-centered or arrogant (Astaghfirullah). In fact, Allah (SWT) is Ar-Rahman (the beneficient) and Ar-Raheem (the ever-merciful). The fact that we are here today living this life is just proof of this.

Let's say that Allah is real. Why is it fair that you get a head start by being born into a Muslim family compared to be, who was born into a Christian one? If you want to say I chose to be an agnostic, fine. But unless I'm mistaken, you didn't choose to be a Muslim. You were born one. Why should you get to go to Heaven for winning the birth lottery?

But Allah (SWT) is not only merciful and generous, he is also Al-Hakam or the one who delivers justice. That (Hellfire) is what justice looks like. This is something impossible for someone who is willfully ignorant or ungrateful to understand.

"Anyone who isn't a Muslim is willfully ignorant or ungrateful" - is this how you usually try and proselytize?

If your best argument for your god is that I'll burn for eternity if I don't believe in him, then my faith would not be genuine. I would just be trying to avoid punishment.

Give me a reason to love your God, not to fear him.

Surah Baqarah Ayat 13 to 18 - And when they are told, “Believe as others believe,” they reply, “Will we believe as the fools believe?” Indeed, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. When they meet the believers they say, “We believe.” But when alone with their evil associates they say, “We are definitely with you; we were only mocking.” Allah will throw their mockery back at them, leaving them to continue wandering blindly in their defiance. They are the ones who trade guidance for misguidance. But this trade is profitless, and they are not ˹rightly˺ guided. Their example is that of someone who kindles a fire, but when it lights up all around them, Allah takes away their light, leaving them in complete darkness—unable to see. They are ˹wilfully˺ deaf, dumb, and blind, so they will never return ˹to the Right Path˺.

Surah Munafiqun Ayah 3 - This is because they believed and then abandoned faith. Therefore, their hearts have been sealed, so they do not comprehend.

Only on Yaum ul-Qiyamah, when they are utterly faced with the truth with no way to deny it, will they finally realize the error of their ways. But it will be too late by then.

Surah Mu'minun Ayat 99 to 100 - When death approaches any of them, they cry, “My Lord! Let me go back, so I may do good in what I left behind.” Never! It is only a ˹useless˺ appeal they make. And there is a barrier behind them until the Day they are resurrected.

Surah An'am Ayat 27 to 30 - If only you could see when they will be detained before the Fire! They will cry, “Oh! If only we could be sent back, we would never deny the signs of our Lord and we would ˹surely˺ be of the believers.” But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars! They insisted, “There is nothing beyond this worldly life and we will never be resurrected.” But if only you could see when they will be detained before their Lord! He will ask ˹them˺, “Is this ˹Hereafter˺ not the truth?” They will cry, “Absolutely, by our Lord!” He will say, “Then taste the punishment for your disbelief.”

It deeply disturbs me that you can read those passages and believe that this is an example of good morals. Eternal punishment for not believing in God. That's just cruel. Your god is cruel and you're a cruel man.

Do you have any reason for believing that this is a just outcome beyond “he’s god, he knows everything, who am I to question him?”

Why would I need one or dare to want one?

Because I think if you're going to be giddy at the thought of 6,000,000,000+ people burning for eternity, that you ought to have a very good reason for believing that it is true and that they deserve it. Blind faith that the religion you were born into is correct is not a sufficient justification for believing that the vast majority of people deserve endless torture. It's borderline sociopathic.

[Biden his time]

The thing is that you have free will. You can choose to follow Allah (SWT) and every day someone doesn't they are making a conscious decision not to. This doesn't make Allah (SWT) self-centered or arrogant (Astaghfirullah). In fact, Allah (SWT) is Ar-Rahman (the beneficient) and Ar-Raheem (the ever-merciful). The fact that we are here today living this life is just proof of this.

Let's say that Allah is real. Why is it fair that you get a head start by being born into a Muslim family compared to be, who was born into a Christian one? If you want to say I chose to be an agnostic, fine. But unless I'm mistaken, you didn't choose to be a Muslim. You were born one. Why should you get to go to Heaven for winning the birth lottery?

We believe that everyone is born a Muslim, they are only corrupted by their environment or their families. Me personally if you're asking me if I'm choosing to be a Muslim, I'd definitely say yes especially with me growing up in the West, it's a conscious decision you make every day to get up early, pray, give charity, fast, follow other rules etc., not just like you can be Catholic and than not do anything "Oh I'm a lapsed Catholic" Islam doesn't really work like that even if some people'd like it to.

Hell if I wanted to I could entirely just stop praying stop fasting etc. And my parents wouldn't know, my siblings wouldn't know, my friends wouldn't know. I could do that but I don't

Also this premise isn't really how it seems, I don't think that 99% of Pakistanis are going to heaven and 99% of Americans are going to hell. Even though there's a geographic correlation, it's likely much weaker than that.

There are plenty of people who are born in Muslim countries and live in Muslim families whose lifestyle is hardly Islamic, even if they say La Ilaha Ilallah on their lips they continue with egregious sins and rarely thinking of God. Oftentimes these are the people who are out there doing Bacha Bazi sitting in their trucks, or the corrupt local official, or even some small petty thief who's never been caught and feels no remorse. Even though there's a higher absolute percentage of people who are practicing Muslims it's probably not 97%, 99%, 94%. The true percentage only Allah (SWT) knows.

On the other hand in places like America you sometimes have people who are living completely good non-corrupt lives, and often they even have fear and love of one God, but they haven't been able to hear about Islam or its teachings in a way that isn't completely slanted or fabricated (think of a guy in Nebraska who barely hears about Islam aside from some bombing in a faraway land on his local news or only thinks of the 9/11 terorrists or "moon-god" angry bearded men who beat their wives).

I mentioned Ahl al-Fatrah in an earlier post but there's actually some debate as to whether these guys would be considered as such, however at the end of the day it really doesn't concern us as only Allah (SWT) will be the one to decide


However the first and foremost reason (and really the only one that matters, all these various anecdotes and statistics above be damned) this is of no issue to me is that I trust in God how he's placed us in this world is what is right for us, and that he will judge us all properly based on how we have acted in this world with the information available to us.

But Allah (SWT) is not only merciful and generous, he is also Al-Hakam or the one who delivers justice. That (Hellfire) is what justice looks like. This is something impossible for someone who is willfully ignorant or ungrateful to understand.

"Anyone who isn't a Muslim is willfully ignorant or ungrateful" - is this how you usually try and proselytize?

No. I'm not trying to proselytize right now, I'm directly and honestly answering your questions knowing I'm under the cover of the internet on an obscure internet forum that a random guy in my class I barely know isn't likely to find. And if someone I know does get this far and sniffs me out, they probably know enough about me and I know enough about them that I'd be completely fine with them finding this (or they're a weirdo stalker but you can't really do anything against that).

I've had theological discussions with non-Muslim friends in real life and never type in this severe kind of way, I guess that's easy to fall into on the internet where you're anonymous and will almost certainly never be known or seen by the person you're talking to in real life and especially when you've had numerous heated arguments with the said person. Sure I apologize if you feel offended or if you think I'm mean or whatever, that's not my goal.

That's what you can do here though. Maybe it's the wrong route to go about like this and maybe my wording is too harsh, but that's just how it is.

If your best argument for your god is that I'll burn for eternity if I don't believe in him, then my faith would not be genuine. I would just be trying to avoid punishment.

Yeah, it isn't my argument or reason for believing in God obviously.

And if that's your reason you'd also not have genuine faith like as in you only fear God but don't love God. That doesn't count. We have this concept Taqwa that means the love and fear of God, it should be both.

I've heard verses and hadiths that go farther into this before but am too lazy to look right now, but it should be obvious as to why.

Give me a reason to love your God, not to fear him.

Literally the world we live in, that you're here right now breathing. That alone is enough reason for me (and honestly for most Muslims I know), I'm sure the theological arguments and justifications go on and on and back and forth with these various cosmological theorems and whatnot but you'll have to talk to someone else about that. For me it's really simple why I believe in God*, after all Allah (SWT) made Islam easy for mankind.

*  (why I think Islam in particular is the right religion is different but essentially I just think it's the most logical)

It's just a completely different mindset than what you have, you're kinda looking for more or nitpicking and complaining about these small things like not having a political victory in some state or something while others might be thankful for the smallest things (BTW I understand the tone here is kind of harsh and raw and I apologize for that if that offends you or something, but I'm just trying to get my point across and typing quickly without revising this a thousand times)

As I said earlier, I'm not trying to proselytize or anything. This is something you'll have to figure out yourself and Insha Allah you will one day.

Surah Baqarah Ayat 13 to 18 - And when they are told, “Believe as others believe,” they reply, “Will we believe as the fools believe?” Indeed, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. When they meet the believers they say, “We believe.” But when alone with their evil associates they say, “We are definitely with you; we were only mocking.” Allah will throw their mockery back at them, leaving them to continue wandering blindly in their defiance. They are the ones who trade guidance for misguidance. But this trade is profitless, and they are not ˹rightly˺ guided. Their example is that of someone who kindles a fire, but when it lights up all around them, Allah takes away their light, leaving them in complete darkness—unable to see. They are ˹wilfully˺ deaf, dumb, and blind, so they will never return ˹to the Right Path˺.

Surah Munafiqun Ayah 3 - This is because they believed and then abandoned faith. Therefore, their hearts have been sealed, so they do not comprehend.

Only on Yaum ul-Qiyamah, when they are utterly faced with the truth with no way to deny it, will they finally realize the error of their ways. But it will be too late by then.

Surah Mu'minun Ayat 99 to 100 - When death approaches any of them, they cry, “My Lord! Let me go back, so I may do good in what I left behind.” Never! It is only a ˹useless˺ appeal they make. And there is a barrier behind them until the Day they are resurrected.

Surah An'am Ayat 27 to 30 - If only you could see when they will be detained before the Fire! They will cry, “Oh! If only we could be sent back, we would never deny the signs of our Lord and we would ˹surely˺ be of the believers.” But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars! They insisted, “There is nothing beyond this worldly life and we will never be resurrected.” But if only you could see when they will be detained before their Lord! He will ask ˹them˺, “Is this ˹Hereafter˺ not the truth?” They will cry, “Absolutely, by our Lord!” He will say, “Then taste the punishment for your disbelief.”

It deeply disturbs me that you can read those passages and believe that this is an example of good morals. Eternal punishment for not believing in God. That's just cruel. Your god is cruel and you're a cruel man.

I don't care what you think about "my God" (who's your God too) or my "cruelty" because I'm right.

Anyway who decides what is cruel? Your feelings?

Do you have any reason for believing that this is a just outcome beyond “he’s god, he knows everything, who am I to question him?”

Why would I need one or dare to want one?

Because I think if you're going to be giddy at the thought of 6,000,000,000+ people burning for eternity, that you ought to have a very good reason for believing that it is true and that they deserve it. Blind faith that the religion you were born into is correct is not a sufficient justification for believing that the vast majority of people deserve endless torture. It's borderline sociopathic.

Yeah it's not blind faith for me, and most others, I've thought about most of these questions long and hard, and moreover I'm not sure what makes you think I'm particularly "giddy" about this reality that a lot of people I know are likely to end up in hell. I'd love for you and all others to join us.

For pure blind faith, that I'd have abandoned Islam a long time ago and gone for the much easier lifestyle and being a hedonist atheist, which I could easily do if I want to and would offer a lot more instant gratification and immediate pleasure.

Also you keep referring to this mental disease your personality is broken stuff, just going to say that atheists have the highest rates of these mental disorders e.g. sociopathy, psychopathy, depression anyway, and more religious people (especially Muslims) generally the ones who are happiest with our lives and have the lowest suicide rates
Something you can to dwell on


Since I didn't type any of this out in order I may have left some places where the text or paragraph is incomplete, if there is it's unintentional and I'll probably edit it later if I see it.
Usually I'm revising and condensing these a few times but here I'm not

[Ferguson97]

We believe that everyone is born a Muslim, they are only corrupted by their environment or their families. Me personally if you're asking me if I'm choosing to be a Muslim, I'd definitely say yes especially with me growing up in the West, it's a conscious decision you make every day to get up early, pray, give charity, fast, follow other rules etc., not just like you can be Catholic and than not do anything "Oh I'm a lapsed Catholic" Islam doesn't really work like that even if some people'd like it to.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's intrinsically easier to choose to continue to be a Muslim than to convert from an entirely different religion.

Also this isn't really how it seems, I don't think that 99% of Pakistanis are going to heaven and 99% of Americans are going to hell. Even though there's a geographic correlation, it's likely much weaker than that.

There are plenty of people who are born in Muslim countries and live in Muslim families whose lifestyle is hardly Islamic, even if they say La Ilaha Ilallah on their lips they continue with egregious sins and rarely thinking of God. Oftentimes these are the people who are out there doing Bacha Bazi sitting in their trucks, or the corrupt local official, or even some small petty thief who's never been caught and feels no remorse. Even though there's a higher absolute percentage of people who are practicing Muslims it's probably not 97%, 99%, 94%. The true percentage only Allah (SWT) knows.

On the other hand in places like America you sometimes have people who are living completely good non-corrupt lives, and often they even have fear and love of one God, but they haven't been able to hear about Islam or its teachings in a way that isn't completely slanted or fabricated (think of a guy in Nebraska who barely hears about Islam aside from some bombing in a faraway land on his local news or only thinks of the 9/11 terorrists or "moon-god" angry bearded men who beat their wives).

I mentioned Ahl al-Fatrah in an earlier post but there's actually some debate as to whether these guys would be considered as such, however at the end of the day it really doesn't concern us as only Allah (SWT) will be the one to decide

How can the fate of billions of people not concern you?

However the first and foremost reason (and really the only one that matters, all these various anecdotes and statistics above be damned) this is of no issue to me is that I trust in God how he's placed us in this world is what is right for us, and that he will judge us all properly based on how we have acted in this world with the information available to us.

But you still haven't told me WHY you have so much faith in him.

Literally the world we live in, that you're here right now breathing. That alone is enough reason for me (and honestly for most Muslims I know), I'm sure the theological arguments and justifications go on and on and back and forth with these various cosmological theorems and whatnot but you'll have to talk to someone else about that. For me it's really simple why I believe in God*, after all Allah (SWT) made Islam easy for mankind.

*  (why I think Islam in particular is the right religion is different but essentially I just think it's the most logical)

What does that mean, the world around us? That's extremely vague. And the world is full of hate and suffering. Hardly the sort of thing that a loving god would allow to flourish.

I don't care what you think about "my God" (who's your God too) or my "cruelty" because I'm right.

But how do you know that you're right?

Anyway who decides what is cruel? Your feelings?

How is me using my own internal moral compass to decide what I think is right and wrong any less valid than you using words on a book written by man that is supposedly the word of God? I'm actually thinking for myself, you're just blindly trusting that what the Imam is preaching to you is the truth because of "faith" - even though you've admitted that you don't understand why God does certain things. The reason you don't understand is because you know in your heart that what you're saying is wrong. That's your conscience.

[Biden his time]

We believe that everyone is born a Muslim, they are only corrupted by their environment or their families. Me personally if you're asking me if I'm choosing to be a Muslim, I'd definitely say yes especially with me growing up in the West, it's a conscious decision you make every day to get up early, pray, give charity, fast, follow other rules etc., not just like you can be Catholic and than not do anything "Oh I'm a lapsed Catholic" Islam doesn't really work like that even if some people'd like it to.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's intrinsically easier to choose to continue to be a Muslim than to convert from an entirely different religion.

Did you read anything I said? Yeah obviously it is easier to continue. I covered that in depth.

The reason isn't to do with that, but that I trust in God to judge us correctly and fairly.

Also this isn't really how it seems, I don't think that 99% of Pakistanis are going to heaven and 99% of Americans are going to hell. Even though there's a geographic correlation, it's likely much weaker than that.

There are plenty of people who are born in Muslim countries and live in Muslim families whose lifestyle is hardly Islamic, even if they say La Ilaha Ilallah on their lips they continue with egregious sins and rarely thinking of God. Oftentimes these are the people who are out there doing Bacha Bazi sitting in their trucks, or the corrupt local official, or even some small petty thief who's never been caught and feels no remorse. Even though there's a higher absolute percentage of people who are practicing Muslims it's probably not 97%, 99%, 94%. The true percentage only Allah (SWT) knows.

On the other hand in places like America you sometimes have people who are living completely good non-corrupt lives, and often they even have fear and love of one God, but they haven't been able to hear about Islam or its teachings in a way that isn't completely slanted or fabricated (think of a guy in Nebraska who barely hears about Islam aside from some bombing in a faraway land on his local news or only thinks of the 9/11 terorrists or "moon-god" angry bearded men who beat their wives).

I mentioned Ahl al-Fatrah in an earlier post but there's actually some debate as to whether these guys would be considered as such, however at the end of the day it really doesn't concern us as only Allah (SWT) will be the one to decide

How can the fate of billions of people not concern you?

It does not concern me in the sense that I'm not busy trying to cast judgement on billions of people only God can do that.
In fact it's strongly discouraged for us to be judging people or talking about people directly that they will go to hell they will go to heaven except a few figures who we know about.

Only God knows enough about each person to properly judge them.

However the first and foremost reason (and really the only one that matters, all these various anecdotes and statistics above be damned) this is of no issue to me is that I trust in God how he's placed us in this world is what is right for us, and that he will judge us all properly based on how we have acted in this world with the information available to us.

But you still haven't told me WHY you have so much faith in him.

Literally the world we live in, that you're here right now breathing. That alone is enough reason for me (and honestly for most Muslims I know), I'm sure the theological arguments and justifications go on and on and back and forth with these various cosmological theorems and whatnot but you'll have to talk to someone else about that. For me it's really simple why I believe in God*, after all Allah (SWT) made Islam easy for mankind.

*  (why I think Islam in particular is the right religion is different but essentially I just think it's the most logical)

What does that mean, the world around us? That's extremely vague. And the world is full of hate and suffering. Hardly the sort of thing that a loving god would allow to flourish.

Yeah exactly, as I said previously this is the mindset difference between you and me, I've written at least five paragraphs across several paragraphs at this point outlining it exactly and you don't seem to understand. The Qur'an verses I cited earlier are literally exactly about people with this kind of mindset and its not something someone can change by brute force. This is why theres us humans cant institute compulsion in religion, it doesn't work like that it has to be from within.

I'm just thankful to live in this world, you're complaining and begging for more not even realizing all the processes that allow you to move your fingers to type this up not realizing at any second one of these could fail and you'd be crippled. You or I could get a brain aneurysm right now and there's nothing you can do about it.  We're blessed that we have all of our body and mind in working order

And this ungratefulness is why you all are so depressed and nihilistic all the time and you end up committing suicide and stuff.

I don't care what you think about "my God" (who's your God too) or my "cruelty" because I'm right.

But how do you know that you're right?

Bro it's really simple to me I look at the blessings we have and don't find it rational to think that there is no God. You don't get it right now, maybe one day you will.

Anyway who decides what is cruel? Your feelings?

How is me using my own internal moral compass to decide what I think is right and wrong any less valid than you using words on a book written by man that is supposedly the word of God?

Because mine comes from God and yours does not.

It's all gonna come down to this again and again since we see the world differently, all your replies are predictable because of this and I could hear it a million times by any Reddit or Twitter NPC if I want

Really this was a rhetorical question, I already know how you'd answer

I'm actually thinking for myself, you're just blindly trusting that what the Imam is preaching to you is the truth because of "faith" - even though you've admitted that you don't understand why God does certain things. The reason you don't understand is because you know in your heart that what you're saying is wrong. That's your conscience.

Lolwut? Of course I don't know why God does certain things duh
Our minds aren't infinite, they are very finite, barely even able to understand a fraction of the things of this world
You seriously think a human would be able to understand all of what and why an omnipotent omniscient God does or says? Even the tiniest fraction of this world or this universe we can't understand yet, and never will even if we were to work for billions of years.

This isn't blind faith, literally me considering all your arguments (which I actually am reading your entire post unlike what you seem to be doing) and talking to you at length is evidence of this. In no point in Islam is it discouraged to ask these types of questions, in fact it's encouraged and it results in deeper Iman and stronger faith.

Furthermore this not only is also applies towards questions about religion but also questions about this world, we should always strive to understand and know more about it.

What is discouraged and looked down upon is when someone isn't asking questions and rather just listening and accepting what's around them.

Low key the real blind faith is coming from you who's trusting your society and institutions around you constantly pushing this message and you're hoping that you're right there is no God and you can do whatever you want. Same thing happens at the end of the day bro whether you like it or not

I don't think I can change your mind on this especially since from your atheist point of view all faith is blind. However we digress

[Ferguson97]

It does not concern me in the sense that I'm not busy trying to cast judgement on billions of people only God can do that.
In fact it's strongly discouraged for us to be judging people or talking about people directly that they will go to hell they will go to heaven except a few figures who we know about.

Only God knows enough about each person to properly judge them.

I'm not asking you to judge someone. I'm asking you to feel empathy for another human being.

You keep saying "oh well I want everyone to come to Heaven" but that doesn't really mean anything because at the end of the day, you do believe that it is objectively morally correct to sentence billions of people to eternal torture just because they don't believe in God. At the end of the day you do think that this is a just punishment.

All I'm asking is for you to put your religious upbringing aside for a second, and ask yourself really deep down, "is eternal torture a proportionate punishment for not believing in Allah"? 

To say that "well it's impossible for us to understand the morality of God because we are mortals" is honestly such a massive cop-out because you don't want have to actually think about how messed up that kind of thinking is.

And if you do still think that eternal torture is a just outcome for non-believers... well... then you're just a terrible human being.

Yeah exactly, as I said previously this is the mindset difference between you and me, I've written at least five paragraphs across several paragraphs at this point outlining it exactly and you don't seem to understand. The Qur'an verses I cited earlier are literally exactly about people with this kind of mindset and its not something someone can change by brute force. This is why there's us humans cant institute compulsion in religion, it doesn't work like that it has to be from within.

Why would you cite Qur'an verses to me as if that's going to strengthen your argument to me? I don't believe in your God. I'm not asking you what the Qur'an says. I'm asking what YOU how you internally know that God is real - beyond some vague "oh look at the blessings bro" because that doesn't actually mean anything.

I'm just thankful to live in this world, you're complaining and begging for more not even realizing all the processes that allow you to move your fingers to type this up not realizing at any second one of these could fail and you'd be crippled. You or I could get a brain aneurysm right now and there's nothing you can do about it.  We're blessed that we have all of our body and mind in working order

So what of the people who do get cancer and brain aneurysms, such as my grandfather? Why should he be grateful?

A few weeks ago, a childhood friend of mine took his own life. Why should I or his family be grateful for that?

You assume that all of my grievances are superficial or irrelevant, and that's frankly extremely insulting.

And this ungratefulness is why you all are so depressed and nihilistic all the time and you end up committing suicide and stuff.

Classy...

Bro it's really simple to me I look at the blessings we have and don't find it rational to think that there is no God. You don't get it right now, maybe one day you will.

As I said above, that's not really an answer, but whatever.

Because mine comes from God and yours does not.

"My views are correct because they come from God" is circular reasoning.

It's all gonna come down to this again and again since we see the world differently, all your replies are predictable because of this and I could hear it a million times by any Reddit or Twitter NPC if I want

I find it difficult to believe that you don't live inside a bubble if this is your idea of what an irreligious person looks like. "Atheist is when Reddit" is such a cringy and childish way of looking at things lmao.

[Biden his time]

It does not concern me in the sense that I'm not busy trying to cast judgement on billions of people only God can do that.
In fact it's strongly discouraged for us to be judging people or talking about people directly that they will go to hell they will go to heaven except a few figures who we know about.

Only God knows enough about each person to properly judge them.

I'm not asking you to judge someone. I'm asking you to feel empathy for another human being.

You keep saying "oh well I want everyone to come to Heaven" but that doesn't really mean anything because at the end of the day, you do believe that it is objectively morally correct to sentence billions of people to eternal torture just because they don't believe in God. At the end of the day you do think that this is a just punishment.

All I'm asking is for you to put your religious upbringing aside for a second, and ask yourself really deep down, "is eternal torture a proportionate punishment for not believing in Allah"? 

Yeah obviously I do LOL! It's very proportionate! Deep down this is what I think!
I get how you think I'm evil for this but I don't care.

To say that "well it's impossible for us to understand the morality of God because we are mortals" is honestly such a massive cop-out because you don't want have to actually think about how messed up that kind of thinking is.

Firstly no it's not a cop-out to think mortal minds can't understand God, this is just a true, logical statement.

And secondly no, I don't think about "how messed-up that kind of thinking is" because I think it's perfectly right. I have no problem with it and neither do billions of others (of course the number of people doesn't matter but I'm just saying that this viewpoint isn't uncommon).

It's the right thinking.

And if you do still think that eternal torture is a just outcome for non-believers... well... then you're just a terrible human being.

Cope and seethe LOL

Yeah exactly, as I said previously this is the mindset difference between you and me, I've written at least five paragraphs across several paragraphs at this point outlining it exactly and you don't seem to understand. The Qur'an verses I cited earlier are literally exactly about people with this kind of mindset and its not something someone can change by brute force. This is why there's us humans cant institute compulsion in religion, it doesn't work like that it has to be from within.

Why would you cite Qur'an verses to me as if that's going to strengthen your argument to me? I don't believe in your God.

Because I'm not trying to convince you of anything, that's literally something impossible for me to do. You don't need the Qur'an verses to understand this, I just brought them up because I thought they were relevant and that they perfectly described this phenomena.

Here I'm just talking about my own viewpoint and you're keep asking me questions thinking you have some Gotcha moments but you don't and you continually act disgusted saying "Holy crap how could anybody ever believe any of this? Psycho!?" as if that's gonna somehow change my mind. I can hear that from anywhere on the internet if I want to.

I don't need to ask about your viewpoint, I already know what you think.

I'm not asking you what the Qur'an says. I'm asking what YOU how you internally know that God is real - beyond some vague "oh look at the blessings bro" because that doesn't actually mean anything.

It actually does mean something, I'm saying exactly what I mean.
Like for me this is just a really simple fact of life that God exists, like 1+1=2, I'm not here to try to explain it to you or convince you of this because as I said earlier that's impossible.

I'm just thankful to live in this world, you're complaining and begging for more not even realizing all the processes that allow you to move your fingers to type this up not realizing at any second one of these could fail and you'd be crippled. You or I could get a brain aneurysm right now and there's nothing you can do about it.  We're blessed that we have all of our body and mind in working order

So what of the people who do get cancer and brain aneurysms, such as my grandfather? Why should he be grateful?

For existing?

...

You assume that all of my grievances are superficial or irrelevant, and that's frankly extremely insulting.

I'm sorry for your losses.

And this ungratefulness is why you all are so depressed and nihilistic all the time and you end up committing suicide and stuff.

Classy...

Am I wrong? 

Because mine comes from God and yours does not.

"My views are correct because they come from God" is circular reasoning.

No, how? You don't seem to be able to conceptualize what I think

God exists -> Makes rules -> I take those rules

Simple as

It's all gonna come down to this again and again since we see the world differently, all your replies are predictable because of this and I could hear it a million times by any Reddit or Twitter NPC if I want

I find it difficult to believe that you don't live inside a bubble if this is your idea of what an irreligious person looks like. "Atheist is when Reddit" is such a cringy and childish way of looking at things lmao.

Well yeah I live in a bubble, we all live in bubbles

Mine is probably more diverse though judging by your extreme reaction to my very pedestrian views. Many of my close non-Muslim friends think exactly like you do, the same way your average Reddit user does. I've had deep discussions with them and they'd talk like you do, maybe more open-minded however.

I'm unsurprised by all of your responses because I actually know a lot of people like you, you seem to not know many people like me.

[John Dule]

Ferguson, what are you doing criticizing Islam? You're not a former Muslim; HR could fire you for this.