Even before Dobbs/Trump Democrats did much better with women compared to the GOP: Why?
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  Even before Dobbs/Trump Democrats did much better with women compared to the GOP: Why?
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Author Topic: Even before Dobbs/Trump Democrats did much better with women compared to the GOP: Why?  (Read 533 times)
Cyrusman
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« on: September 22, 2022, 03:30:18 PM »

Even before Roe was overturned Democrat's always did better with women then Republicans, and this was well before Trump too. Why is that? Aside for abortion and reproductive rights, why have Democrats historically always done much better with women than men? Asking for reasons other than abortion.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2022, 04:48:01 PM »

Firstly, it wasn't like abortion and women's healthcare generally wasn't a thing before Roe v Wade, though obviously post Roe v Wade it has only made the divide more clear.

I think a large part of it has to due with a combination and of culture and biology. Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Finally, Dems were generally the ones to side more with the #MeToo movement and generally empowering women to enter the workforce and participate in jobs they usually wouldn't participate in. They also tend to stand up more for women who have faced abuse and other injustices.

Personally, the question i find more interesting is why women turn out at higher rates than men in so many parts of the country, especially the deep south where the electorate can often get close to 60% female
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2022, 05:08:29 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community.

"Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus killed us all" exhibit #463728
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2022, 05:31:13 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.
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The Thinking Man's Orangewoman
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2022, 05:33:17 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.
And this held across most, if not all democracies!
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2022, 05:33:42 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.

Clearly Phyllis Schlafly's Collectivist Biological Wiring™ led her to oppose the ERA because she cared so much for her fellow housewives that she didn't want to see lesbians undermine them.
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Zaybay
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2022, 06:36:20 PM »
« Edited: September 22, 2022, 08:38:38 PM by Zaybay »

I think a large part of it has to due with a combination and of culture and biology. Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Finally, Dems were generally the ones to side more with the #MeToo movement and generally empowering women to enter the workforce and participate in jobs they usually wouldn't participate in. They also tend to stand up more for women who have faced abuse and other injustices.

Somehow this explanation is both blatantly sexist as well as nonsensical when considering the timeline. As others have noted, the female vote was historically right-leaning compared to the male vote. In fact, many left-leaning parties across the globe specifically tried to block and stop women's suffrage because they feared that women voting would tip the scales towards the conservative/religious parties. In the US, women voted towards the right of men until about the 60s and 70s, where there was little/no gender gap.

The 80s and 90s are when women started to sort into the Democratic column. With that information in mind, the cause would have to be derived from that political era.

And there are multiple potential theories: Some scholars have argued that divorce rates as well as the general decline in marriage was a significant contributor. Others have stated that Reagan/the GOP turning against the ERA and similar moves against women's issues pushed women over towards the Dems. And some argue that women had leaned more liberal on the issues compared to men since the 1960s, and so it was all just natural ideological sorting.

Notably, none of these explanations have anything to do with extremely modern phenomena or ridiculous pseudo-science.
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DT
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2022, 06:43:30 PM »

Women have more precarious economic situations, mostly.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2022, 06:46:59 PM »

I think a large part of it has to due with a combination and of culture and biology. Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Finally, Dems were generally the ones to side more with the #MeToo movement and generally empowering women to enter the workforce and participate in jobs they usually wouldn't participate in. They also tend to stand up more for women who have faced abuse and other injustices.

Somehow this explanation is both blatantly sexist as well as nonsensical when considering the timeline. As others have noted, the female vote was historically right-leaning compared to the male vote. In fact, many left-leaning parties across the globe specifically tried to block and stop women's suffrage because they feared that women voting would tip the scales towards the conservative/religious parties. In the US, women voted towards the right of men until about the 60s and 70s, where there was little/no gender gap.

The 80s and 90s are when women started to sort into the Democratic column. With that information in mind, the cause would have to be derived from that political era.

And there are multiple potential theories: Some scholars have argued that divorce rates as well as the general decline in marriage was a significant contributor. Others have stated that Reagan/the GOP turning against the ERA and similar moves against women's issues pushed women over towards the Dems. And some argue that women had leaned more liberal on the issues compared to men since the 1960s, and so it was all just natural ideological sorting.

Notably, none of these explanations have anything to do with extremely modern phenomenon or ridiculous pseudo-science.

Yes I agree this is a huge oversimplification on my part and I'm no scientist or anything, but I feel like it is fair to say different messages appeal tend to appeal to men and women just because of different brain structures and hormone balances that have developed into the way they have based on historic roles in the human race (way before we had any sort of developed society).

I think you bring up a good point about women voting to the right of men throughout much of the previous century, however, back then left and right were seen as completely different than they are now and the messaging was very different. Previously, the left had been a champion for workers rights, and until relatively recently, men had been a large majority in the formal workforce, especially in dangerous work conditions such as factories. Today, men and women have pretty close to equal employment and far fewer people work in jobs that involve immediate physical danger.

Also if more women were largely contained to their home or local community at most, then a more conservative viewpoint makes sense since they would want what's best for their family specifically and really hadn't been exposed to the outside world enough to develop that deeper understanding of how things are interconnected and that everyone needs help. Nowadays, very few women are truly confined to just the home, and the ones who are still lean heavily right.

These are both huge generalizations, but their generalizations based on history that I think most would agree are fair.
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Actual Necromancer Joe Manchin
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2022, 07:47:16 PM »

I think a large part of it has to due with a combination and of culture and biology. Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Finally, Dems were generally the ones to side more with the #MeToo movement and generally empowering women to enter the workforce and participate in jobs they usually wouldn't participate in. They also tend to stand up more for women who have faced abuse and other injustices.

Somehow this explanation is both blatantly sexist as well as nonsensical when considering the timeline. As others have noted, the female vote was historically right-leaning compared to the male vote. In fact, many left-leaning parties across the globe specifically tried to block and stop women's suffrage because they feared that women voting would tip the scales towards the conservative/religious parties. In the US, women voted towards the right of men until about the 60s and 70s, where there was little/no gender gap.

The 80s and 90s are when women started to sort into the Democratic column. With that information in mind, the cause would have to be derived from that political era.

And there are multiple potential theories: Some scholars have argued that divorce rates as well as the general decline in marriage was a significant contributor. Others have stated that Reagan/the GOP turning against the ERA and similar moves against women's issues pushed women over towards the Dems. And some argue that women had leaned more liberal on the issues compared to men since the 1960s, and so it was all just natural ideological sorting.

Notably, none of these explanations have anything to do with extremely modern phenomenon or ridiculous pseudo-science.

Yes I agree this is a huge oversimplification on my part and I'm no scientist or anything, but I feel like it is fair to say different messages appeal tend to appeal to men and women just because of different brain structures and hormone balances that have developed into the way they have based on historic roles in the human race (way before we had any sort of developed society).

I think you bring up a good point about women voting to the right of men throughout much of the previous century, however, back then left and right were seen as completely different than they are now and the messaging was very different. Previously, the left had been a champion for workers rights, and until relatively recently, men had been a large majority in the formal workforce, especially in dangerous work conditions such as factories. Today, men and women have pretty close to equal employment and far fewer people work in jobs that involve immediate physical danger.

Also if more women were largely contained to their home or local community at most, then a more conservative viewpoint makes sense since they would want what's best for their family specifically and really hadn't been exposed to the outside world enough to develop that deeper understanding of how things are interconnected and that everyone needs help. Nowadays, very few women are truly confined to just the home, and the ones who are still lean heavily right.

These are both huge generalizations, but their generalizations based on history that I think most would agree are fair.

A less sexist way to articulate the third paragraph there--and a correct one!--would be that, when women had noticeably lower workforce participation rates than men, women's main economic issue tended to be consumer prices whereas men's tended to be labor relations and/or business practices. The mainstream right has a reputation for being stronger on the former and the mainstream left on the latter to this day.
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Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 08:00:24 PM »

What was the last election housewives were a demographic that was more Democratic than the nation as a whole?
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David Hume
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2022, 08:29:45 PM »

What was the last election housewives were a demographic that was more Democratic than the nation as a whole?
Not in recent history I guess. Not sure if there has been one.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2022, 11:58:51 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.

Proof?
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2022, 02:25:54 AM »

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/politics/elect-port-education.html

Here is something interesting about 1980. Reagan's best group among gender and education is Male College Educated Voters which he won by a massive 31 points while his 2nd worst group was Women College Educated Voters which he lost by 2 points. In fact the gender divide per education group goes like this


No High School Diploma: Women voted 19 points to the left of Men(Men were 4 points for Reagan while Women were 15 points for Carter)

High School Diploma: Women voted 3 points to the left of Men(Men were 9 points for Reagan while Women were 6 points for Reagan).

Some College Education: Women voted 15 points to the left of Men(Men were 28 points for Reagan while Women were 13 points for Reagan)

College Degree: Women voted 35 points to the left of Men(Men were 33 points for Reagan while Women were 2 points for Carter).




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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2022, 06:57:11 AM »
« Edited: September 24, 2022, 12:41:15 PM by Skill and Chance »

What was the last election housewives were a demographic that was more Democratic than the nation as a whole?
Not in recent history I guess. Not sure if there has been one.

Hmmm... the answer is 2020 if WFH counts!

Beyond that, probably 1932-40 because of how much the business community feared FDR?  Those women who were active in business back then would have been more exposed to that.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2022, 07:11:42 AM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.

Proof?

Exit polls up to 1976 show women breaking more Republican than men.  Also consider the massive swing away from FDR from 1940 to 1944.  Military absentee voting basically didn't exist at the time, so the electorate may well have been pushing 60% female. 
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2022, 08:34:51 AM »

I think a large part of it has to due with a combination and of culture and biology. Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.
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North Carolina Conservative
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2022, 09:24:20 AM »
« Edited: September 23, 2022, 09:29:48 AM by North Carolina Conservative »

Not sure why the biological explanation is getting so much hate here. Economic differences certainly play a role in the gender divide, but don't explain why the divide persists even for men and women with similar incomes, industries, and educations. Seems very likely that at least one reason for the gender divide is biological.

As for why women used to be more right wing than men, a potential explanations could be that
that women are more likely to value stability, but men are more sympathetic to conservative ideological appeals. Thus, female voters might like a candidate like Eisenhower more than male voters, but be less likely than male voters to like a candidate like Reagan. A good example of this would be Chile, where women were more right wing up until the 2021 election, where Kast, a more ideologically conservative nominee than past candidates, performed better among men than woman.
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Boobs
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2022, 09:26:59 AM »

I’m not sure this forum is particularly well-suited to discussing the values and thought processes of women, considering that speaking to women is a totally alien experience for the average user.
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2022, 09:32:20 AM »

I’m not sure this forum is particularly well-suited to discussing the values and thought processes of women, considering that speaking to women is a totally alien experience for the average user.

ITT:
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2022, 10:27:45 AM »
« Edited: September 23, 2022, 01:14:38 PM by Skill and Chance »

Not sure why the biological explanation is getting so much hate here. Economic differences certainly play a role in the gender divide, but don't explain why the divide persists even for men and women with similar incomes, industries, and educations. Seems very likely that at least one reason for the gender divide is biological.

As for why women used to be more right wing than men, a potential explanations could be that
that women are more likely to value stability, but men are more sympathetic to conservative ideological appeals. Thus, female voters might like a candidate like Eisenhower more than male voters, but be less likely than male voters to like a candidate like Reagan. A good example of this would be Chile, where women were more right wing up until the 2021 election, where Kast, a more ideologically conservative nominee than past candidates, performed better among men than woman.

Biological explanations for voting choices are pretty extreme, though, especially when voting choices have fluctuated so much over just 4 or so generations of men and women voting on equal terms.  Also the women = risk averse stuff that's really common in social science fails to account for how incredibly dangerous childbirth used to be.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2022, 05:06:23 PM »

Biological women are pre-wired to generally be more caring towards others since their job was to carry the baby and then in most societies they would be the most active caregiver towards the baby. Men on the other hand generally went out to hunt, and were far more exposed to competition with other men. They were also the protectors of their family or community. In the parties today, Ds are generally seen as the more compassionate party that wants to lift everyone up while the Republican Party encourages the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology of individual people reaping the benefit of their hard work.

Women voted to the right of men for decades after the Nineteenth Amendment.

Proof?

Exit polls up to 1976 show women breaking more Republican than men.  Also consider the massive swing away from FDR from 1940 to 1944.  Military absentee voting basically didn't exist at the time, so the electorate may well have been pushing 60% female. 

Source?
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nclib
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2022, 06:49:39 PM »

It's not like the only women's rights issues are abortion and women's health, or that women aren't to the left of men on other issues. Also, today's so-called "conservatism" is almost by definition anti-woman.
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I Will Not Be Wrong
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2022, 09:23:32 PM »

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/women-won-the-right-to-vote-100-years-ago-they-didnt-start-voting-differently-from-men-until-1980/

A really good article from FiveThirtyEight. It suggests that when (mostly white) women gained the right to vote, they tended to be wealthier. Many women continued to not vote, because they had grown up believing that their gender did not belong in politics, the article states. By the 1970's women started finally voting at the same rates as men, but did not start leaning Democratic until 1980, when the Republican Party railed against the ERA and shifted rightward.

That makes a lot of sense if you ask me.
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2022, 08:16:44 AM »

They asked while getting a disproportionate influence from young men who define themselves as “involuntarily celibate”.
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