The exodus of the blue avatars (user search)
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  The exodus of the blue avatars (search mode)
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Author Topic: The exodus of the blue avatars  (Read 6577 times)
Ferguson97
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« on: September 22, 2022, 08:58:48 PM »

I think much of this has less to do with the culture of Atlas and more to do with the nature of conservatism itself. At best, conservatism seeks to preserve the status quo, so they haven't really though about how they might defend their beliefs. They've never had to. They're not advocating for any kind of change, so they don't have any institutions or leaders to challenge. Conservatives generally hail from echo chambers and have rarely, if ever, had their belief system challenged. They haven't been exposed to liberal/progressive line of thought. If they have, it's been a strawman or extremist outlier manufactured by Fox News or some other conservative outlet. So when they finally do encounter a left-leaning person who competently defends their beliefs, it feels like a personal attack. It's the same reason why many conservatives feel that their opinions are not welcome in a university setting. It's the first time where someone has actually made them defend why they believe what they believe. And since they've rarely critically thought about this, they become defensive. They view counterarguments as a personal attack. "I'm being attacked for my ideas." Now, there are many conservatives who DO know how to defend their beliefs and can competently engage in an exchange of ideas. The problem is that because the Republican Party has become the party of anti-intellectualism, the conservatives who do know how to debate don't really identify as Republicans and don't don the blue avatar.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2022, 11:04:38 PM »

For me, the reason I've been posting here has been that my life outside of Atlas has gotten a lot more busy

And this is something else that distinguishes blue avatars from red ones.  We're real people with real jobs, families and other commitments competing for our time while red avatars have always skewed younger/more engaged. 

Lol red avatars aren’t real people?
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2022, 11:25:48 PM »

I think much of this has less to do with the culture of Atlas and more to do with the nature of conservatism itself. At best, conservatism seeks to preserve the status quo, so they haven't really though about how they might defend their beliefs. They've never had to. They're not advocating for any kind of change, so they don't have any institutions or leaders to challenge. Conservatives generally hail from echo chambers and have rarely, if ever, had their belief system challenged. They haven't been exposed to liberal/progressive line of thought. If they have, it's been a strawman or extremist outlier manufactured by Fox News or some other conservative outlet. So when they finally do encounter a left-leaning person who competently defends their beliefs, it feels like a personal attack. It's the same reason why many conservatives feel that their opinions are not welcome in a university setting. It's the first time where someone has actually made them defend why they believe what they believe.

 Pacman 

 Tears of joy


lol do you deny that conservatives are generally in echo chambers?
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2022, 09:58:03 AM »

For those claiming it wouldn't be like this if the GOP was more respectable, name one R outside the Northeast not unanimously opposed to by red avatars.Youngkin was feared with such a vigor, you'd think he was trying to abolish democracy and lock up any minorities in Virginia.

I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to prove by this statement. Red avatars hate GOP politicians because the party is insane. What’s your point?
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2022, 10:29:45 AM »

Conservatives also generally have a much better understanding of why liberals think the way they do than vice versa.

Lol no, you guys absolutely do not understand liberals.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2022, 04:37:47 PM »

this might be the single biggest reason there are so few blue avs.  The sh**tty ones can't hack it or freak out and get banned.  sh**tty red avs can and do stick around for years.  Some of them are Atlas "institutions".
And the low quality of the median red avatar contributes greatly to creating the climate I spoke of where the forum simply isn't worth making serious contributions to anymore. Sometimes I see a thread I want to post in, but scrolling through and seeing a wall of Reddit-tier takes from Democrats disabuses me of any interest in participating.

"We are more than happy to participate, but you're all too stupid that it's not even worth it!"

Wow, great argument there. It sounds like you're very secure in your belief system.

I am in the minority on a number of issues on Atlas (particularly trans rights), but I always defend my beliefs no matter how many people disagree with me.

Look, Atlas is unlike most social media giants in that there's no algorithm stacking the deck against you. We're a relatively small community, we're completely anonymous, and moderation here is generally lax enough that you don't have to worry about getting your posts removed unless you engage in a personal attack. There's nothing holding you back from defending your beliefs and engaging with red avatars, unless you're afraid that they're going to get more recommends than you.

If blue avatars/conservatives aren't able to defend their arguments on Atlas of all places, then that's not on red avatars. That's on blue avatars.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2022, 04:59:17 PM »

Your argument then, is that the forum is a fair place for both sides to make their arguments? That there is no bias present among moderation, or generally? I have said in the past that this forum certainly does give considerable leeway to posters, far more so than what you see on many other websites. I've constantly raised the example of AlternateHistory.com, whose administrator, Ian the Admin, and moderators, primarily CalBear, are utterly ruthless towards those who they see as violating their forum's policies. Oftentimes, they tend to be particularly harsh with those who express right-leaning or conservative viewpoints. We are lucky that such is not the case here.

I haven't been to AH.com in years, so I can't speak to their moderation practicies.

But no, I do not believe that there is left-wing bias among the moderators. They are exceptionally fair. If anything they give slightly more leeway to conservatives so as not to appear biased. (See, for example: the fact that DeadPrez, Mr. Reactionary, Fuzzy et al. haven't been permabanned.)
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2022, 11:07:10 PM »

We've even had a small handful of posters in 2020 and 2021 advocating for absolutely zero COVID restrictions, NOT on the basis of "they don't work", but on the basis of "they might actually work, but individual freedom is more important". That is the morally wrong position and it isn't justifiable.

Ding dong your opinion is wrong. You have the right to stay in your house forever if you are afraid of getting the cold. You do not have the right to force me to live according to your irrational fear.

Do you genuinely believe that there should never have been any covid restrictions at all, even in March-April 2020? Post-vaccine, I agree there shouldn't be restrictions, but T'Chenka is specifically referring to a point before we had the vaccine, and fear of covid was not irrational then.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2022, 11:21:09 PM »

We've even had a small handful of posters in 2020 and 2021 advocating for absolutely zero COVID restrictions, NOT on the basis of "they don't work", but on the basis of "they might actually work, but individual freedom is more important". That is the morally wrong position and it isn't justifiable.

Ding dong your opinion is wrong. You have the right to stay in your house forever if you are afraid of getting the cold. You do not have the right to force me to live according to your irrational fear.

Do you genuinely believe that there should never have been any covid restrictions at all, even in March-April 2020?
He said 2020 and 2021. There should have been absolutely no restrictions of any kind after the vaccine became available.

Lockdowns were always a horrible idea. Pre-vaccine there should have been nothing more than mask requirements during the peaks of waves. I have no problem with the March 2020 lockdowns because we had no idea what the hell was going on. But the ones continuing after that were bad and wrong, and especially the ones in winter 2020-21 (which happened in a few states including CA) were indefensible. Trump was right to go after the Dem governors of those midwestern states in May and June 2020.

I agree there should have not been any restrictions after the vaccine became available, but you seem to contradict that in your second paragraph.

There was no vaccine in May and June 2020 or even winter 2020-2021. It wasn't widely available until like March 2021.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2022, 10:46:09 PM »

We've even had a small handful of posters in 2020 and 2021 advocating for absolutely zero COVID restrictions, NOT on the basis of "they don't work", but on the basis of "they might actually work, but individual freedom is more important". That is the morally wrong position and it isn't justifiable.

Ding dong your opinion is wrong. You have the right to stay in your house forever if you are afraid of getting the cold. You do not have the right to force me to live according to your irrational fear.

Do you genuinely believe that there should never have been any covid restrictions at all, even in March-April 2020? Post-vaccine, I agree there shouldn't be restrictions, but T'Chenka is specifically referring to a point before we had the vaccine, and fear of covid was not irrational then.

In hindsight the best strategy would have been to allow covid to spread and have as many people infected as possible and create a strong initial immunity giving variants less opportunity to develop.

This is deranged.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2022, 12:59:36 AM »

In regards to the thread title....

Does anyone seriously believe the loss of ElectionsGuy, IndyRep and Politician is somehow a blow to the forum quality?

There are conservative users who make valuable contributions to Atlas.

ElectionsGuy, IndyRep, and Politician are not those users.
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