Biden administration doesn't want Supremes to look at century old racist law
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  Biden administration doesn't want Supremes to look at century old racist law
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Author Topic: Biden administration doesn't want Supremes to look at century old racist law  (Read 2111 times)
dead0man
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« on: September 01, 2022, 11:31:44 PM »

Wash Po
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The Biden administration told the Supreme Court Monday that it should not take up a case about citizenship rights for American Samoa even though advocates say it would give justices a chance to upend a series of century-old precedents that have been roundly denounced as racist.

Solicitor General Elizabeth B. Prelogar told the Supreme Court in a brief filed Monday that an appeals court had been right to find that Congress should make citizenship decisions about those born in territories, and the case in question, Fitisemanu v. U.S., would make a poor vehicle for reexamining a series of rulings called the Insular Cases.

Last term, justices at both ends of the court’s ideological spectrum — Neil M. Gorsuch on the right and Sonia Sotomayor on the left — criticized the rulings, which employed racist language and imperialist sentiment to find residents of some U.S. territories are not entitled to full constitutional protection, such as birthright citizenship.
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Torie
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2022, 08:17:47 AM »
« Edited: September 03, 2022, 08:17:09 PM by Torie »

Since I don’t think the Biden administration has racist instincts, I googled around. Here is the rest of the story. I will ask Dan about it when he chooses to wake up.

“The ruling notes that American Samoa government leaders and others opposed the lawsuit because they are concerned automatic citizenship could disrupt cultural traditions, such as communal land ownership and social structures organized around large, extended families led by matai, those with hereditary chieftain titles.

‘ ‘There is simply insufficient caselaw to conclude with certainty that citizenship will have no effect on the legal status of the fa’a Samoa,” or the American Samoan way of life, the ruling said. “The constitutional issues that would arise in the context of America Samoa’s unique culture and social structure would be unusual, if not entirely novel, and therefore unpredictable.’ ”

https://apnews.com/article/american-samoa-cultures-government-and-politics-ecb28f949187601ae97e65ae2d7ff7de

I am not sure just why automatic citizenship would put their communal land system at risk. That is puzzling. Knowing most everything, is not the same as knowing absolutely everything.  Squinting  

Oh, here is more. Dan is 70% Samoan and I think knows about this, so I think I have a clue where he comes down on this. We can buy a pad on the islands, which would be cheaper than otherwise because of the reduced competition. Yeah!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/why-some-american-samoans-don-t-want-u-s-citizenship-n1103256


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brucejoel99
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2022, 12:14:21 PM »

The government is correct that SCOTUS shouldn't reach to decide issues that are unnecessary to decide the case at hand:

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Aurelius
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2022, 04:38:48 PM »

American Samoa is governed under hereditary rule in a manner completely incompatible with American law and the Constitution. If American Samoa wants to gain all the rights and priviliges of full citizenship, they can very easily give up their hereditary aristocracy. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

I do favor an easier path for full citizenship for AS nationals who move to the US proper.
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Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist
darthpi
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2022, 10:32:50 AM »

American Samoa should probably just be an independent country in free association with the United States, like we do with Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2022, 12:22:50 PM »

Since I don’t think the Biden administration has racist instincts, I googled around. Here is the rest of the story. I will ask Dan about it when he chooses to wake up.

“The ruling notes that American Samoa government leaders and others opposed the lawsuit because they are concerned automatic citizenship could disrupt cultural traditions, such as communal land ownership and social structures organized around large, extended families led by matai, those with hereditary chieftain titles.

‘ ‘There is simply insufficient caselaw to conclude with certainty that citizenship will have no effect on the legal status of the fa’a Samoa,” or the American Samoan way of life, the ruling said. “The constitutional issues that would arise in the context of America Samoa’s unique culture and social structure would be unusual, if not entirely novel, and therefore unpredictable.’ ”

https://apnews.com/article/american-samoa-cultures-government-and-politics-ecb28f949187601ae97e65ae2d7ff7de

I am not sure just why automatic citizenship would put their communal land system at risk. That is puzzling. Knowing most everything, is not the same as knowing absolutely everything.  Squinting  

Oh, here is more. Dan is 70% Samoan and I think knows about this, so I think I have a clue where he comes down on this. We can buy a pad on the islands, which would be cheaper than otherwise because of the reduced competition. Yeah!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/why-some-american-samoans-don-t-want-u-s-citizenship-n1103256




My understanding is that the Samoan leadership, which comes from a relatively narrow elite circle that ties to the hereditary aristocracy in Samoa, is concerned that this would undermine their control of the Samoan population, and more people would depart Samoa for the US mainland - i.e., there are fundamentally bad motives at play by the Samoan leaders that really should not be taken seriously or entitled to deference.
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Torie
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2022, 12:35:09 PM »

Since I don’t think the Biden administration has racist instincts, I googled around. Here is the rest of the story. I will ask Dan about it when he chooses to wake up.

“The ruling notes that American Samoa government leaders and others opposed the lawsuit because they are concerned automatic citizenship could disrupt cultural traditions, such as communal land ownership and social structures organized around large, extended families led by matai, those with hereditary chieftain titles.

‘ ‘There is simply insufficient caselaw to conclude with certainty that citizenship will have no effect on the legal status of the fa’a Samoa,” or the American Samoan way of life, the ruling said. “The constitutional issues that would arise in the context of America Samoa’s unique culture and social structure would be unusual, if not entirely novel, and therefore unpredictable.’ ”

https://apnews.com/article/american-samoa-cultures-government-and-politics-ecb28f949187601ae97e65ae2d7ff7de

I am not sure just why automatic citizenship would put their communal land system at risk. That is puzzling. Knowing most everything, is not the same as knowing absolutely everything.  Squinting  

Oh, here is more. Dan is 70% Samoan and I think knows about this, so I think I have a clue where he comes down on this. We can buy a pad on the islands, which would be cheaper than otherwise because of the reduced competition. Yeah!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/why-some-american-samoans-don-t-want-u-s-citizenship-n1103256




My understanding is that the Samoan leadership, which comes from a relatively narrow elite circle that ties to the hereditary aristocracy in Samoa, is concerned that this would undermine their control of the Samoan population, and more people would depart Samoa for the US mainland - i.e., there are fundamentally bad motives at play by the Samoan leaders that really should not be taken seriously or entitled to deference.

The chief thing is complicated. The families choose a family head, and the family heads elect the chief.  It is sort of like the electoral college. There is very much a class system in Samoa, which is quite rigid actually.

That said, there is nothing to prevent Samoans from moving to the States. One way to do that is by joining the military. That is what my partner's dad did. He was a career Sergeant. My partner Dan was born in Japan when his duty station was there.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 08:47:12 AM »

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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 11:22:26 AM »

The insular cases are terrible opinions.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2022, 11:57:44 AM »

American Samoa is governed under hereditary rule in a manner completely incompatible with American law and the Constitution. If American Samoa wants to gain all the rights and priviliges of full citizenship, they can very easily give up their hereditary aristocracy. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

I do favor an easier path for full citizenship for AS nationals who move to the US proper.

Precisely why the government of American Samoa filed a brief opposing certiorari in this case (and, I imagine, why Gorsuch and Sotomayor didn’t dissent from the denial of certiorari even after calling for the Insular Cases to be overturned in Vaello-Madero). Maybe some other case will come out of Puerto Rico or Guam and the court can fashion a solution that extends the Constitution to all the territories but AS.
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Diabolical Materialism
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2022, 03:03:17 PM »

Why not? Diana Ross is a scholar of constitutional law.
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