Why do Republicans seem to think they are owed support from Libertarians?

[Aurelius]

The libertarian and conservative mindsets are radically different, and I think the only reason they are lumped together by so many people is because guns and Obamacare were such big issues in the early 2010s, and they are issues where conservatives and libertarians tended to agree. Libertarians believe economic efficiency is an end in itself - I don't, and I think letting unrestrained market forces reach whatever outcome they coalesce on is a horrible idea that leads to horrible outcomes, which is precisely why I support curbs on immigration, oppose unrestricted free trade, support zoning laws, etc.

But I actually think that libertarians who are more neoliberal than paleoconservative, which is most of them, belong more in the Dems than the GOP. Actual libertarians, as opposed to conservatives who like weed and have no problem with gays, are such a tiny voting bloc that it's not worth conceding so many core principles to win them over. Like PiT, I do respect them for their principled stands against foreign wars though.

[Aurelius]

The libertarian and conservative mindsets are radically different, and I think the only reason they are lumped together by so many people is because guns and Obamacare were such big issues in the early 2010s, and they are issues where conservatives and libertarians tended to agree. Libertarians believe economic efficiency is an end in itself - I don't, and I think letting unrestrained market forces reach whatever outcome they coalesce on is a horrible idea that leads to horrible outcomes, which is precisely why I support curbs on immigration, oppose unrestricted free trade, support zoning laws, etc.

But I actually think that libertarians who are more neoliberal than paleoconservative, which is most of them, belong more in the Dems than the GOP. Actual libertarians, as opposed to conservatives who like weed and have no problem with gays, are such a tiny voting bloc that it's not worth conceding so many core principles to win them over. Like PiT, I do respect them for their principled stands against foreign wars though.

This is false as the GOP in many ways is more libertarian than it was in the Bush years by far. It is no accident Rand Paul who very much disliked Bush/Cheney is a huge fan of Trump and another example of this is the biggest donor for the "new populist right" and that is Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel identified as a libertarian from the Bush years on and only really joined the GOP from 2016 onwards and has played a huge role in funding "Trumpist" candidates this time. The group of libertarians these people represent played a huge role in the Ron Paul candidacy of 2008/2012 and they are the anti government anti institution types who since Trump have flocked to the GOP in droves.

Now the Libertarians who were economically conservative but socially liberal yes have joined the dems but keep in mind the reason they supported Libertarians more from the mid 2000s to mid 2010s is in those days if you wanted a party who was anti interventionism the only party you could find that from were the Libertarians and  Ron Paul. As the war on terror became less and less an issue in politics both these groups of libertarians basically flocked back to the party that fit them and thats what happened but that does not make the GOP less libertarian today at all.

Libertarianism means more than just "Economically Conservative Socially Liberal" like the political compass makes it out to be cause thats just false.


Also the Democrats are really not neoliberal at all today in the way the term is actually defined and not the way it has been defined since 2016.

By neoliberal, I mean the way it's used by people on r/neoliberal, not the way it's used by leftists and tradcons. The Dems certainly aren't neoliberal in that sense, but libertarians with r/neoliberal sympathies are a hell of a lot closer to the Dems than the GOP nowadays.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later.

[Aurelius]

The libertarian and conservative mindsets are radically different, and I think the only reason they are lumped together by so many people is because guns and Obamacare were such big issues in the early 2010s, and they are issues where conservatives and libertarians tended to agree. Libertarians believe economic efficiency is an end in itself - I don't, and I think letting unrestrained market forces reach whatever outcome they coalesce on is a horrible idea that leads to horrible outcomes, which is precisely why I support curbs on immigration, oppose unrestricted free trade, support zoning laws, etc.

But I actually think that libertarians who are more neoliberal than paleoconservative, which is most of them, belong more in the Dems than the GOP. Actual libertarians, as opposed to conservatives who like weed and have no problem with gays, are such a tiny voting bloc that it's not worth conceding so many core principles to win them over. Like PiT, I do respect them for their principled stands against foreign wars though.

There are lots of reasons to think that, as decline in trust in institutions and governments continues, it is the paleoconservatives who will end joining the Democrats. (Also, I don't know what strawman you've constructed with "actual libertarians", but we're reaching the point where "conservatives who like weed and have no problem with gays" -- here meaning movement conservatives who want to repeal Obamacare and cut taxes because this will causally lead to economic growth -- are an enormous fraction of the GOP and an outright majority of GOP voters under 60 or so). The more that the GOP base reviles statism, and the Democrats are defined by their support from an educated class ever more alienated from the rest of society, the more that folks like Hawley will inevitably be forced into the Democratic coalition, which is where I expect to see him in 20 years.

To be clear, I don't like Josh Hawley at all. There is a *lot* of difference between him and the type of conservatives I described. But there is equally as much distance between them and people like Dule or, say, Elizabeth Nolan Brown for example.

[Aurelius]

Ayn Rand isn't a libertarian.