Euthanasia Is Now A Leading Cause Of Death In Canada

[world.execute(me)]

https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/12/canada-euthanasia-disability-human-rights-mental-health/

This is evil.

Edit: I'm outraged about disabled people being pushed into it when they could live a happy life if Canada just paid a bit more. I'm not some sicko who is horrified by the idea of people suffering from agonizingly painful terminal diseases getting a dignified, nonpainful way out.

[Blue3]

Good, hopefully one day it's one of the only causes of death.

[Red Velvet]

I would rather die whenever I want and peacefully than suffering slowly at a hospital when I’m at a older age.

[CumbrianLefty]

Good, hopefully one day it's one of the only causes of death.

With respect, I don't think this position is a fully thought through one.

[Aurelius]

Canada's supreme court decided a while back that Canada's charter of human rights required the availability of euthanasia for mental illness. Monstrous at every level.

[Blue3]

Good, hopefully one day it's one of the only causes of death.

With respect, I don't think this position is a fully thought through one.

Tell me, what am I missing?

[Coldstream]

The decision to end your life when in incredible, irreversible pain should be taken by yourself with the counsel of doctors, as with abortion it’s your body - your choice. The opinions of people who find it distasteful are irrelevant.

[Skill and Chance]

This is seriously disturbing and fundamentally why I don't support single payer healthcare.  There should be generous subsidies, but there have to still be competing alternatives you can go to so they can't just cut you off.  This is the equivalent of a lifetime limit in the bad, old days of US private insurance, although even then you would eventually go bankrupt and end up on medicaid vs. a total cutoff of care from the only available source as appears to be happening here.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

[Aurelius]

Two years ago I plumbed the absolute depths of pain and despair during a severe, yearlong bout of OCD in which my brain was pretty much on fire 24/7. In no waking moment could I escape the torture of my constant obsessions, and most nights they followed me into my dreams. I constantly believed that my irrational fears were true, and that this was a fate worse than death. Half a year of therapy and medication had accomplished nothing, and I was continuing to get worse. For a time it appeared that I was doomed to suffer in this condition for the rest of my life. Merely to be conscious in this period was an experience of torturous suffering.

Two years later, the condition is under control, I am for all intents and purposes fully recovered, and I am the happiest I've been in my entire life. I've always had very strong willpower, and even during the worst moments I hardly ever thought of suicide. However, if it were the policy of the state to not only allow doctor-assisted suicide as an escape route for people like me, I shudder in the fear that I may have gone that route, however unlikely it may have been. And if, as in Canada, they had actively pushed it on me... lord help me. Even here in the US I had to fight like hell to stop an aggressive pill-pushing "psychologist" from forcing me onto antipsychotics that would have turned me into a living zombie and possibly left me with Parkinsons-like side effects for life. Resisting the doctor's demands involved a direct appeal to the director of the program I was in, and required a degree of self-advocacy, persuasion, and willpower that a lot of people in these situations simply do not have.

This is despicable and evil. End of story. What the hell is wrong with Canada?

[MaxQue]

Two years ago I plumbed the absolute depths of pain and despair during a severe, yearlong bout of OCD in which my brain was pretty much on fire 24/7. In no waking moment could I escape the torture of my constant obsessions, and most nights they followed me into my dreams. I constantly believed that my irrational fears were true, and that this was a fate worse than death. Half a year of therapy and medication had accomplished nothing, and I was continuing to get worse. For a time it appeared that I was doomed to suffer in this condition for the rest of my life. Merely to be conscious in this period was an experience of torturous suffering.

Two years later, the condition is under control, I am for all intents and purposes fully recovered, and I am the happiest I've been in my entire life. I've always had very strong willpower, and even during the worst moments I hardly ever thought of suicide. However, if it were the policy of the state to not only allow doctor-assisted suicide as an escape route for people like me, I shudder in the fear that I may have gone that route, however unlikely it may have been. And if, as in Canada, they had actively pushed it on me... lord help me. Even here in the US I had to fight like hell to stop an aggressive pill-pushing "psychologist" from forcing me onto antipsychotics that would have turned me into a living zombie and possibly left me with Parkinsons-like side effects for life. Resisting the doctor's demands involved a direct appeal to the director of the program I was in, and required a degree of self-advocacy, persuasion, and willpower that a lot of people in these situations simply do not have.

This is despicable and evil. End of story. What the hell is wrong with Canada?

Nothing is wrong with Canada, the only wrong thing here is lying media.

[JimJamUK]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

Second this.

[Brother Jonathan]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

Thanks. "Genuine, serious problems but still sensationalized even more by Certain Outlets" is about what I tend to expect is going on with news stories about ultraliberal euthanasia regimes these days.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

Thanks. "Genuine, serious problems but still sensationalized even more by Certain Outlets" is about what I tend to expect is going on with news stories about ultraliberal euthanasia regimes these days.

Yeah. This is genuinely disturbing and someone needs to take a serious look into the Canadian health care system to see how it could have gone so badly off the rails, and put far more stringent regulations in place.

[MaxQue]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

Thanks. "Genuine, serious problems but still sensationalized even more by Certain Outlets" is about what I tend to expect is going on with news stories about ultraliberal euthanasia regimes these days.

Yeah. This is genuinely disturbing and someone needs to take a serious look into the Canadian health care system to see how it could have gone so badly off the rails, and put far more stringent regulations in place.

There is no Canadian health system, but 10 different provincial ones who only have to respect some very loose federal criteria to keep their federal funding.

[Aurelius]

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

— Unlike Belgium and the Netherlands, where euthanasia has been legal for two decades, Canada doesn’t have monthly commissions to review potentially troubling cases, although it does publish yearly reports of euthanasia trends.

— Canada is the only country that allows nurse practitioners, not just doctors, to end patients’ lives. Medical authorities in its two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec, explicitly instruct doctors not to indicate on death certificates if people died from euthanasia.

— Belgian doctors are advised to avoid mentioning euthanasia to patients since it could be misinterpreted as medical advice. The Australian state of Victoria forbids doctors from raising euthanasia with patients. There are no such restrictions in Canada. The association of Canadian health professionals who provide euthanasia tells physicians and nurses to inform patients if they might qualify to be killed, as one of their possible “clinical care options.”

— Canadian patients are not required to have exhausted all treatment alternatives before seeking euthanasia, as is the case in Belgium and the Netherlands.

I am genuinely at a loss of words.

In 2019, which I picked to avoid covid confounds, there were 307 thousand deaths in Canada. If Ontario and Quebec, which together make up more than half of Canada's population, are not listing euthanasia on death certificates, then it's safe to say euthanasia deaths are closer to 20,000 than 10,000. 20,000 out of 300 thousand is a substantial proportion. This is not something being used only in the worst of the worst situations.

Not saying this is wrong, but do you have a better source than the Daily Caller?

There was this story from Associated Press a few days ago, which paints a pretty harrowing picture, but I don't think it offers any claim that it is now a "leading cause of death".

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867

Thanks. "Genuine, serious problems but still sensationalized even more by Certain Outlets" is about what I tend to expect is going on with news stories about ultraliberal euthanasia regimes these days.

Yeah. This is genuinely disturbing and someone needs to take a serious look into the Canadian health care system to see how it could have gone so badly off the rails, and put far more stringent regulations in place.

There is no Canadian health system, but 10 different provincial ones who only have to respect some very loose federal criteria to keep their federal funding.

That makes the situation even worse, not better.

It's clear that Canada is actively steering people it views as a burden toward "euthanasia". All of this only 6 years after they began allowing it in very limited circumstances. I can't help comparing this to Aktion T4, even though it is somewhat less heinous.

[HillGoose]

its gonna be happening in the US here soon, it is the death panels, they are coming, US govt overturning Roe V Wade was the start of it, it is the slippery slope down to death panels to euthanize ppl that big gov doesn't deem worthy to live bcuz ppl no longer have the right to their own medical decisions

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's clear that Canada is actively steering people it views as a burden toward "euthanasia". All of this only 6 years after they began allowing it in very limited circumstances. I can't help comparing this to Aktion T4, even though it is somewhat less heinous.

The compare-and-contrast to other countries with lax euthanasia policies really drives home that there genuinely seems to be something very wrong here. Antonio and I disagree strongly on the abstract moral questions underlying euthanasia, so when he and I are not only in agreement that something like this Goes Too Far (we also agree on that regarding euthanasia in the Low Countries and even some high-profile cessation-of-care cases out of the UK) but approximately equally repulsed by it, you know something really does stink somewhere.

[CumbrianLefty]

Excuse my ignorance, but what *is* the Daily Caller exactly?

[Hatman 🍁]

This isn't even big news here, so this is just a clickbaity article.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This isn't even big news here...

Well no. But you do have an extremely conformist media over sensitive subjects. One only needs to consider the Residential Schools issue until very, very recently. And even there: there are ministers alive at the time who made heinous decisions in that general field (one of whom became a long-serving Prime Minister) but there has been no media pressure to make them account for what they did. This is not particularly normal...

[Aurelius]

This isn't even big news here, so this is just a clickbaity article.

That doesn't make it any less bad - it simply means that either your media is not doing its job, the Canadian people as a whole have a badly broken moral compass, or both.

[Benjamin Frank]

Four points
1.I find it ridiculous that Americans, the land of the stupid and the home of the selfish covidiots, believe they have any moral standing to lecture Canadians about morality and caring for aged or unhealthy people.  It's amazing how the Covidiots here are quick to jump back on pretending to be moral after demonstrating that they were purely selfish people who only cared about 'looking out for number one' for the better part of two years.

Covid isn't over, if you want to start wearing masks in indoor public spaces and getting vaccinated, then you have a right to lecture others. Otherwise, you are nothing more than dishonest phony moralizers.

2.It makes sense since MAID is fairly new and expanding to more areas, that the numbers will be initially high as the backlog of people suffering is addressed. I know for easy moralizers thinking logically isn't exactly a prime concern.

3.The details haven't been worked out, but when it comes to mental health issues, it's far from every mental health condition that's going to be up for MAID.

4.A person doesn't get MAID just because they ask for it. It has to be signed off on by a medical assessor. This is mentioned in the AP article, but as far as I can tell, nobody noticed it.

There was a story recently on the news that went the other way, that a woman in significant pain was turned down for MAID three times.

As I pointed out last time Canada was brought up over this on this board, the idea that people here who couldn't even handle wearing a mask in indoor public settings now believe that a woman in great pain should be able to 'tough it out' or that they could 'tough it out' in that situation is galling.

Denied medical assistance in dying in Ottawa, she is going to Brampton

Margaret (Maggie) Bristow describes her chronic pain as "intolerable" and "paralyzing," living with degenerative disc disease, fibromyalgia, spinal stenosis, arthritis in the spine as well as bulging discs and bone spurs.

"It feels like people are taking ice picks and shoving them into my chest.… My skin feels like it's being burned off my body 24/7," said Bristow from her couch, sitting as still as she could.

Bristow said she applied for medical assistance in dying, also called MAID, three times since the procedure was decriminalized in 2016 — twice prior and once after the recent legislative changes in 2021 broadened the eligibility criteria for patients.

All three times, she said, her Ottawa assessors declared her ineligible.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/medical-assistance-in-dying-maid-ottawa-woman-travels-brampton-1.6533579

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Four points

Three of which are plausible counterarguments, but the post as a whole is undercut by the fact that you're treating the Americans in this thread solely as exemplars of our nationwide political culture rather than as individuals. That's fallacious in several different ways, without even getting into the fact that there are British and French/Italian citizens in this thread criticizing Canadian policy as well.