New York Times has posted the dumbest opinion piece ever

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'writes Julia Yost.'

We can all stop there.

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To be fair, there is ample opportunity for discussion about tradcath bougie white converts that extends beyond the deus-volt cliche of a few years ago. But you can find a thousand or so people in any subset in a place like NYC. As one person online joked, there's probably twice as many furries in NYT as this clique. And I suppose the profile market for bougie whites running off to join the Islamic State has long dried up.

It wouldn't be the NYT without these sorts of pieces, which they have been pumping out for decades, hoping they strike gold on something before it become well known or mainstreamed.

But when a forgotten journo from a forgotten journal has to take to the NYT to say how popular the thing they are invested in is, then you're swimming in the shallow end of an already shallow pool.

Also the only people who ever cared about 'Red Scare' to begin with are the same people who probably greenlight these sorts of pieces (Vanity Fair had one too)

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Also the only people who ever cared about 'Red Scare' to begin with are the same people who probably greenlight these sorts of pieces (Vanity Fair had one too)

Probably the biggest culture shock I've had about Catholicism is not any of the weird preoccupations that cradle Catholics have, but the fact that other youngish converts so often expect me to know and care about this seemingly endless rogues' gallery of freakish nobodies.

'This is not your grandmother's church'. As any fool knows most peoples' grandmothers are the only decent Catholics in their family.

They could do with learning some old school cradle Catholic guilt and we might not get these drunk on aesthetism trash pieces... 😶

[afleitch]

A glorification of the 'old European way' of saying mass doesn't come alone particularly amongst the sorts of people talked about in the OP. The Church's restrictions are quite grounded.

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This gives me an idea for an R&P thread about the dangers of aesthetic discourse in philosophy and politics (hi D'Annunzio) if I have the time.

[afleitch]

A glorification of the 'old European way' of saying mass doesn't come alone particularly amongst the sorts of people talked about in the OP. The Church's restrictions are quite grounded.

Yes, particularly regarding indigenous issues. You run into black, Asian, and "white Hispanic" trads semi-frequently, but the 2019 Amazon Synod revealed a really intense and ugly undercurrent of anti-Native sentiment in the tradosphere that's only gotten worse with each subsequent stab at indigenous reconciliation from the Vatican. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Charles Chaput is the only remaining trad-sympathetic Native Catholic in America.

I think what's striking is how people forget that Vatican 2 was in many ways Catholicism's contrition for it's own imperialism, and certainly for it's indirect relationship with inter-war nationalism. There's a lot of focus on the Church and rightfully so, but less on the 'responsibility' of the laity and political Catholics which Vatican 2 was a response to.

The 'issues' views of TLM attendees are shocking. Not just in comparison to other Catholics, but comparable faiths

https://liturgyguy.com/2019/02/24/national-survey-results-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attendees/

The demographics are to be expected; disproportionally white, from traditionalist Catholic backgrounds and heavily backfilled by converts.

https://liturgyguy.com/2020/05/26/2019-20-tlm-survey-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attending-young-adults/

I know I'm quite hyperbolic and I'm not being kind or gracious but to me it's a fash pit. That the otherwise glacial Church has moved so fast to counter it suggests they at least partially think the same.

[afleitch]

A glorification of the 'old European way' of saying mass doesn't come alone particularly amongst the sorts of people talked about in the OP. The Church's restrictions are quite grounded.

Yes, particularly regarding indigenous issues. You run into black, Asian, and "white Hispanic" trads semi-frequently, but the 2019 Amazon Synod revealed a really intense and ugly undercurrent of anti-Native sentiment in the tradosphere that's only gotten worse with each subsequent stab at indigenous reconciliation from the Vatican. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if Charles Chaput is the only remaining trad-sympathetic Native Catholic in America.

I think what's striking is how people forget that Vatican 2 was in many ways Catholicism's contrition for it's own imperialism, and certainly for it's indirect relationship with inter-war nationalism. There's a lot of focus on the Church and rightfully so, but less on the 'responsibility' of the laity and political Catholics which Vatican 2 was a response to.

The 'issues' views of TLM attendees are shocking. Not just in comparison to other Catholics, but comparable faiths

https://liturgyguy.com/2019/02/24/national-survey-results-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attendees/

The demographics are to be expected; disproportionally white, from traditionalist Catholic backgrounds and heavily backfilled by converts.

https://liturgyguy.com/2020/05/26/2019-20-tlm-survey-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attending-young-adults/

I know I'm quite hyperbolic and I'm not being kind or gracious but to me it's a fash pit. That the otherwise glacial Church has moved so fast to counter it suggests they at least partially think the same.

"Men are an important barometer of any Liturgical Rite’s attractiveness" is an absolutely shocking sentence, yet somehow also completely unsurprising in this context. At best it's the sort of thing one says out of desperation to attract as many potential future priests as possible; at worst it's straightforwardly and crassly sexist. The "Liturgy Guy" is a real argumentative jerk in the comments on these posts, too.

Yeah; it was the only reporting blog I could find that shared survey results. I didn't want to waste good whisky on reading anymore.