FBI search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago (Update: Trump Indicted!)

[GeorgiaModerate]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

Uh ex presidents do not have the right to those documents unless the current president gives them authorization to have them

Well, because of the "circumstances" that put Biden in the oval office, there is reasonable doubt about his authority in this case.

No, there isn't.  There is only unreasonable doubt.  But by all means, Trump should feel free to try this defense in court.

[YPestis25]

First the argument was Trump had the authority, then it was well Biden doesn't have the authority to enforce the laws because he cheated to get into office, and finally the crux of it all: Trump should be able to do what he wants otherwise we'll burn stuff down.

[emailking]

Document makes clear they have multiple sources so it's more than just one of the kids flipping on him.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

[emailking]

Not much to see here overall. And the chaotic organization and filing system or lack of a system suggests feckless incompetence (cf "orange buffoon"), rather than something more sinister.  All in all not that much additional bad news here for Trump, at least that is not covered up in black. So things have not yet been brought to a head, and the boil lanced.

Some of the documents marked H (human sources) seems significant.

[emailking]

Trump is making a big deal that nuclear isn't mentioned anywhere, but it wouldn't be. Just the markings (not content) would be in this.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Trump is making a big deal that nuclear isn't mentioned anywhere, but it wouldn't be. Just the markings (not content) would be in this.

.......does he not....is he not seeing the black bars all over?

[Crumpets]

Has anyone just tried holding the document up to the light to try to decipher the text under the blacked out parts?

Well it's digital so black is black.

Then maybe we can try highlighting it with a cursor. Sometimes they really are that inept.

[brucejoel99]

Trump is making a big deal that nuclear isn't mentioned anywhere, but it wouldn't be. Just the markings (not content) would be in this.

.......does he not....is he not seeing the black bars all over?

https://twitter.com/kdbyproxy/status/1563200270326448130

[BigSerg]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

Serg it doesn't change that if (and I'll stress IF) Trump committed a crime, his apparent popularity should have no bearing on facing legal consequences. 

[SteveRogers]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

Uh ex presidents do not have the right to those documents unless the current president gives them authorization to have them

Well, because of the "circumstances" that put Biden in the oval office, there is reasonable doubt about his authority in this case.

That is both factually and legally incorrect.

[OSR stands with Israel]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

This is not about a crime he committed in office though, but one he has committed after he left. Listen I think there has to be discretion as I would let most foreign policy stuff slide , and even the more minor stuff but taking top secret classified info is not either.

[America Needs R'hllor]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

Trump is the President as much as your favourite dictator is leading a successful invasion.

[pbrower2a]

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182-daec-dfd1-adef-dafe79d30000


I read the document in its entirety. My takeaways are 1) sensitive documents were intermixed with non sensitive ones in a chaotic fashion, which is not up to archival standards to say the least, 2) all the reasons for the redactions were also redacted in the chart except the one for "agent safety," and 3) the DOJ seemed annoyed that Trump had issued a statement that the government found nothing improper in the documents that he voluntarily gave them pursuant to their request last February.

What one otherwise could read was boilerplate about why releasing affidavits compromises criminal investigations.

Not much to see here overall. And the chaotic organization and filing system or lack of a system suggests feckless incompetence (cf "orange buffoon"), rather than something more sinister.  All in all not that much additional bad news here for Trump, at least that is not covered up in black. So things have not yet been brought to a head, and the boil lanced.

We now I will see what the MSM big guns think as compared to what the forum fossil thinks.

1. Mixture of sensitive and non-sensitive documents excuses nothing.

2. What is covered includes the affiant and the FBI Special Agent leading the case. There could also be   CIA and DIA officials and experts in nuclear secrets. It is easy to understand the resentments that people in such positions might have about knowing the close scrutiny and the consequences for disseminating such information  that anyone could get unauthorized access to such material and then abuse it.

3. There could be fears that the ex-President could be seeking to flee the United States for places in which such information would be extremely valuable to the intelligence and military services of a potentially-dangerous adversary.  

4. Feckless buffoons do much crime, and often horrific crimes. This may include the person who arranges a murder conspiracy for collection of insurance proceeds, the usual bank robber, and the bulk of drug dealers. That the offender is of marginal competence at doing the crime -- well, ideally we do not promote expertise in committing such crimes, do we, through our educational system? -- the legal system offers those buffoons no mercy in trial or sentencing.  

[Torie]

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182-daec-dfd1-adef-dafe79d30000


I read the document in its entirety. My takeaways are 1) sensitive documents were intermixed with non sensitive ones in a chaotic fashion, which is not up to archival standards to say the least, 2) all the reasons for the redactions were also redacted in the chart except the one for "agent safety," and 3) the DOJ seemed annoyed that Trump had issued a statement that the government found nothing improper in the documents that he voluntarily gave them pursuant to their request last February.

What one otherwise could read was boilerplate about why releasing affidavits compromises criminal investigations.

Not much to see here overall. And the chaotic organization and filing system or lack of a system suggests feckless incompetence (cf "orange buffoon"), rather than something more sinister.  All in all not that much additional bad news here for Trump, at least that is not covered up in black. So things have not yet been brought to a head, and the boil lanced.

We now I will see what the MSM big guns think as compared to what the forum fossil thinks.

1. Mixture of sensitive and non-sensitive documents excuses nothing.

2. What is covered includes the affiant and the FBI Special Agent leading the case. There could also be   CIA and DIA officials and experts in nuclear secrets. It is easy to understand the resentments that people in such positions might have about knowing the close scrutiny and the consequences for disseminating such information  that anyone could get unauthorized access to such material and then abuse it.

3. There could be fears that the ex-President could be seeking to flee the United States for places in which such information would be extremely valuable to the intelligence and military services of a potentially-dangerous adversary.  

4. Feckless buffoons do much crime, and often horrific crimes. This may include the person who arranges a murder conspiracy for collection of insurance proceeds, the usual bank robber, and the bulk of drug dealers. That the offender is of marginal competence at doing the crime -- well, ideally we do not promote expertise in committing such crimes, do we, through our educational system? -- the legal system offers those buffoons no mercy in trial or sentencing.  

I hope you did not infer that I thought that the contents of the released redacted affidavit suggests that Trump has less legal exposure than was previously thought. It just didn't in the non-redacted bits contain exacerbatory smoking gun stuff that leaves only the exact date of the filing of the inevitable indictment on the table. It just didn't move the legal ball very much from where it was is my take.

I had mused myself about Trump fleeing the country, to Putin's dacca or something. The thing is though, is that he has all those secret service agents following him around. So he would have to lose them first to slip away. Maybe a Russian sub could get near MAL, and then he could hop into a helo and zip over to it as it surfaces, hop off and zip down the hatch as the sub submerges again.  Then Biden would need to ponder what to do about that sub. Not sure whether it should have nukes on it or not.

Yes, I know the script needs some work, before I submit it to the appropriate studio for production. For example, Trump would need to know something, or have something, that he could give to Putin, that would change the world, to ramp up the intensity to where it needs to be get the jaded audiences out of their stupor.  Be patient.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

So you're admitting the entire Republican party is a protection racket?

[Inmate Trump]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

Fearing attacks from Republican terrorists shouldn’t preclude Trump being punished for crimes IF he did commit them.

How treacherous to believe otherwise.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

Uh ex presidents do not have the right to those documents unless the current president gives them authorization to have them

Well, because of the "circumstances" that put Biden in the oval office, there is reasonable doubt about his authority in this case.

[Ferguson97]

And even if Trump did commit some crime...

But this would set an extremely dangerous precedent because if it applies to Trump, then it would need to apply to Biden or Desantis or President Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, etc. etc.  

Future presidents would be free to commit crimes without reprisal.  And it would also open up the treacherous discussion of what crimes are "permissible".  

No one has as many staunch supporters as Trump and we both know very well that if the Democrats go down this path, things will not end well. Trump's personality, his staunch supporters and the current polarized climate are exceptional.

Serg it doesn't change that if (and I'll stress IF) Trump committed a crime, his apparent popularity should have no bearing on facing legal consequences. 

Sorry, your defense of Trump is that his supporters are violent, rabid dogs who would burn the country down if they aren't placated?

[Horus]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

Uh ex presidents do not have the right to those documents unless the current president gives them authorization to have them

Well, because of the "circumstances" that put Biden in the oval office, there is reasonable doubt about his authority in this case.

Learn how to count.

[slothdem]

This won't change minds. MAGA 100%

This isn't about changing minds.  It's about investigating potential (and very serious) crimes and national security violations.

There is no crime, Trump is the president or ex president according to some Americans, he is right to have those documents. And let's not pretend that any attempt to lock Trump up would not seriously jeopardize the social stability of this country.

This isn't true at all. We might see an uptick in rightwing terrorism, but nothing that could threaten the stability of the United States. What are the trumpers going to do? Storm the capitol? They already tried that and it didn't work!

[emailking]

Biden is legally the President and has all the powers of the Presidency. Even if you can prove 6 states were stolen, he's still legally the President and has all the powers of the Presidency, because that's how Congress counted the electoral votes.

[soundchaser]

Biden is legally the President and has all the powers of the Presidency. Even if you can prove 6 states were stolen, he's still legally the President and has all the powers of the Presidency, because that's how Congress counted the electoral votes.

That the thread needs this clarification is strong evidence of just how damaging Trump has been to our democracy.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1563236808087207937

The stupid is strong in this one.