Crapo admits IRA won't raise taxes.
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  Crapo admits IRA won't raise taxes.
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Author Topic: Crapo admits IRA won't raise taxes.  (Read 546 times)
Pedocon Theory is not a theory
CalamityBlue
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« on: August 05, 2022, 02:55:56 PM »

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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2022, 03:41:44 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.
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Pedocon Theory is not a theory
CalamityBlue
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2022, 04:55:07 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2022, 05:05:08 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction?  
  
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.

Some of us remember when we attacked NSW (D-VA) so hard over arguing $400k was middle class that he rage-quit, deleted all his posts and resurfaced some ages later with a libertarian avatar. Too much money in VA, if you ask me!

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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2022, 08:08:41 PM »
« Edited: August 05, 2022, 08:12:37 PM by 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.

Who said that?

anyway if you want Crapo's actual opinion on what this bill does, maybe don't rely on a clip that cuts off after 16 seconds to intentionally obscure his meaning.
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Primadonna Socialist
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2022, 08:58:51 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.

Who said that?

anyway if you want Crapo's actual opinion on what this bill does, maybe don't rely on a clip that cuts off after 16 seconds to intentionally obscure his meaning.

For being so critical of 'fake news' your side has really become quite adept at perpetuating it. It's hard to take any Republicans 'actual opinion' seriously these days when we know they're usually arguing in bad faith, particularly their elected officials.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2022, 09:04:34 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.

Who said that?

anyway if you want Crapo's actual opinion on what this bill does, maybe don't rely on a clip that cuts off after 16 seconds to intentionally obscure his meaning.

For being so critical of 'fake news' your side has really become quite adept at perpetuating it. It's hard to take any Republicans 'actual opinion' seriously these days when we know they're usually arguing in bad faith, particularly their elected officials.

Are you telling me you think the Senate Democrats twitter account is an objective news source on Republican positions?   Or that it doesn't matter whether it's reliable or not because GOP=bad  so it's ok to make up stuff?
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2022, 10:44:19 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction?  
  
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


What, exactly, is the distinction? If tax rates do not increase, there is no mechanism for someone to pay more taxes to the government unless they earn more money. You can say that someone would indirectly pay more taxes to the government through corporate tax rates and the like but the typical American doesn't see this as a "tax" and it's very disingenuous for Republicans to try to spin possible indirect tax increases as direct tax increases.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2022, 11:25:09 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction?  
  
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


What, exactly, is the distinction? If tax rates do not increase, there is no mechanism for someone to pay more taxes to the government unless they earn more money. You can say that someone would indirectly pay more taxes to the government through corporate tax rates and the like but the typical American doesn't see this as a "tax" and it's very disingenuous for Republicans to try to spin possible indirect tax increases as direct tax increases.

A person can pay more in taxes at the same tax rate if they lose the ability to deduct.  Or they can pay more in sales taxes if prices go up.  Maybe Crapo isn't talking about that though, I don't know. I'd be interested in knowing what he was claiming, but I only have this 16 second gotcha clip put out by the Democrats courtesy of the OP.  I tried to look up the press conference myself but searching "IRA", "finance", and "republicans" gave me something completely different.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2022, 10:03:29 AM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction?  
  
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


What, exactly, is the distinction? If tax rates do not increase, there is no mechanism for someone to pay more taxes to the government unless they earn more money. You can say that someone would indirectly pay more taxes to the government through corporate tax rates and the like but the typical American doesn't see this as a "tax" and it's very disingenuous for Republicans to try to spin possible indirect tax increases as direct tax increases.

A person can pay more in taxes at the same tax rate if they lose the ability to deduct.  Or they can pay more in sales taxes if prices go up.  Maybe Crapo isn't talking about that though, I don't know. I'd be interested in knowing what he was claiming, but I only have this 16 second gotcha clip put out by the Democrats courtesy of the OP.  I tried to look up the press conference myself but searching "IRA", "finance", and "republicans" gave me something completely different.

First, ending deductions pushes up the effective tax rate and this would be colloquially understood as a "tax increase", as it would be a direct tax increase. While sales taxes are linked to the price of a good, in aggregate, the level of sales tax paid can only increase with the overall price level and the share of sales tax paid in terms of income will basically be stable, though there can be wrinkles here. Overall though, politicians do not directly set inflation.

Crapo's point relates to the corporate minimum tax. It could indirectly hit some American because it would create a floor for taxes on corporations, which could result in wage restraint or decreases in hiring etc. Claiming that an indirect effect of a tax increase is a tax increase is extremely misleading - it's like claiming that slashing taxes on corporations is actually cutting taxes for the middle class, a brazen lie. To Crapo's credit, he was being a bit honest, but, even then,  the balance of research shows corporate tax increases largely hit dividends, executive compensation and the like.

Overall, I'm surprised more Republicans aren't criticizing increased funding to the IRS, which is a better line of attack than simply lying, as Americans hate the IRS.
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Torie
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2022, 10:19:16 AM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction?  
  
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


What, exactly, is the distinction? If tax rates do not increase, there is no mechanism for someone to pay more taxes to the government unless they earn more money. You can say that someone would indirectly pay more taxes to the government through corporate tax rates and the like but the typical American doesn't see this as a "tax" and it's very disingenuous for Republicans to try to spin possible indirect tax increases as direct tax increases.

A person can pay more in taxes at the same tax rate if they lose the ability to deduct.  Or they can pay more in sales taxes if prices go up.  Maybe Crapo isn't talking about that though, I don't know. I'd be interested in knowing what he was claiming, but I only have this 16 second gotcha clip put out by the Democrats courtesy of the OP.  I tried to look up the press conference myself but searching "IRA", "finance", and "republicans" gave me something completely different.

First, ending deductions pushes up the effective tax rate and this would be colloquially understood as a "tax increase", as it would be a direct tax increase. While sales taxes are linked to the price of a good, in aggregate, the level of sales tax paid can only increase with the overall price level and the share of sales tax paid in terms of income will basically be stable, though there can be wrinkles here. Overall though, politicians do not directly set inflation.

Crapo's point relates to the corporate minimum tax. It could indirectly hit some American because it would create a floor for taxes on corporations, which could result in wage restraint or decreases in hiring etc. Claiming that an indirect effect of a tax increase is a tax increase is extremely misleading - it's like claiming that slashing taxes on corporations is actually cutting taxes for the middle class, a brazen lie. To Crapo's credit, he was being a bit honest, but, even then,  the balance of research shows corporate tax increases largely hit dividends, executive compensation and the like.

Overall, I'm surprised more Republicans aren't criticizing increased funding to the IRS, which is a better line of attack than simply lying, as Americans hate the IRS.

Here is some light reading for you on who pays for the corporate income tax. This was a hot topic when I had hair, and is still a hot topic. I went out of my way to find something that was dry and academic, rather than associated with the right wing corporatism.

https://tax.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/corptaxprice.pdf
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Sinemafan
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2022, 10:20:34 AM »

Now Brandon just needs to admit it won't reduce inflation.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2022, 10:36:31 AM »

Now Brandon just needs to admit it won't reduce inflation.

Republicans have been arguing since Trump left office (and not a moment before) that deficit spending causes inflation. Then how can a bill which goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction - to reduce the deficit - do anything but reduce inflation?

The only conclusion is that Republicans believe any policy which is led by a Democrat must have a bad effect on the issue du jour, even if it means they contradict themselves.
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Frodo
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2022, 01:47:16 PM »

I imagine the Irish Republican Army can't raise taxes in the United States. 
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Miscellaneous Top Secret Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2022, 02:08:13 PM »

I imagine the Irish Republican Army can't raise taxes in the United States.  

No, they're trying to lift the Stategic Arms Limitation Talks caps.
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AverageFoodEnthusiast
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2022, 02:35:37 PM »

I imagine the Irish Republican Army can't raise taxes in the United States. 

That's what (((he))), Brandon, wants you to think!

obvious /s
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CentristRepublican
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2022, 02:38:07 PM »

raising taxes vs. raising tax rates.  You understand the distinction? 
 
Plus, Biden himself is saying it's going to raise taxes.  The disagreement is whether it will hit the middle class.


Now that's a new one, 400k is middle class.

Who said that?

anyway if you want Crapo's actual opinion on what this bill does, maybe don't rely on a clip that cuts off after 16 seconds to intentionally obscure his meaning.

For being so critical of 'fake news' your side has really become quite adept at perpetuating it. It's hard to take any Republicans 'actual opinion' seriously these days when we know they're usually arguing in bad faith, particularly their elected officials.

Are you telling me you think the Senate Democrats twitter account is an objective news source on Republican positions?   Or that it doesn't matter whether it's reliable or not because GOP=bad  so it's ok to make up stuff?

It's not okay to make up stuff. Therefore, GOP=bad.
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Pericles
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2022, 04:04:30 PM »

It would make America more resilient against future inflation by reducing its dependence on fossil fuels and so the volatile fossil fuel market. It was also supposed to bring healthcare cost relief immediately too, but that might have been changed by the parliamentarian.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 05:37:31 PM »

Thatís a shame. Raising taxes is a good thing actually
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