Three myths about COVID-19 — and the biggest challenge that lies ahead

[Ebowed]

Asian countries have long worn masks when they were sick and had to go out in public. Then again this IS America and wouldn’t be able to do something like that here.

That must be why nobody in Japan has covid at the moment. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Then what's the point of the vaccine? This is like anti-vaxxer talking points.

The vaccine reduces spread of Omicron, but unlike Delta and the original version it only does so by 40-50%. It reduces the risk of actually dying of the disease, but it doesn't make it harmless.

I don't really need an "excuse" to not wear a mask, it's not required here and very few people do, I'm still not likely to catch it at the grocery store and my most packed events are of course my shows and mosh pits. Are masks really going to help in such a setting with people packed like sardines?

You live in a densely packed city, you have a decent chance of catching it(and then spreading it to others, who can then spread it to others, etc) at some point. The virus might not harm you specifically, but if its allowed to spread uncontrolled, it will seriously harm enough people to hurt our society greatly(an extra 5-10% of the population developing serious chronic health issues is going to be bad). And yes, masks will still help in a densely packed environment.

1-How am I supposed to drink alcoholic beverages at a show in an N95?
2-How am I supposed to run around, regularly push and jump into people, and engage in very cardio heavy behavior while breathing in an N95?

[MiddleRoad]

Then what's the point of the vaccine? This is like anti-vaxxer talking points.

The vaccine reduces spread of Omicron, but unlike Delta and the original version it only does so by 40-50%. It reduces the risk of actually dying of the disease, but it doesn't make it harmless.

I don't really need an "excuse" to not wear a mask, it's not required here and very few people do, I'm still not likely to catch it at the grocery store and my most packed events are of course my shows and mosh pits. Are masks really going to help in such a setting with people packed like sardines?

You live in a densely packed city, you have a decent chance of catching it(and then spreading it to others, who can then spread it to others, etc) at some point. The virus might not harm you specifically, but if its allowed to spread uncontrolled, it will seriously harm enough people to hurt our society greatly(an extra 5-10% of the population developing serious chronic health issues is going to be bad). And yes, masks will still help in a densely packed environment.

1-How am I supposed to drink alcoholic beverages at a show in an N95?
2-How am I supposed to run around, regularly push and jump into people, and engage in very cardio heavy behavior while breathing in an N95?

Covid in 2020, Covid in 2021, Covid in 2022, Covid forever

You will wear your mask
You will social distance
You will get as many vaccines as you’re told
You will eat the bugs
You will live in the pod
You will drink the toilet bowl water
You will think and speak as you are supposed to
You will own nothing and be happy

Carry on, fellow citizen, and think correctly!

[world.execute(me)]

Then what's the point of the vaccine? This is like anti-vaxxer talking points.

The vaccine reduces spread of Omicron, but unlike Delta and the original version it only does so by 40-50%. It reduces the risk of actually dying of the disease, but it doesn't make it harmless.

I don't really need an "excuse" to not wear a mask, it's not required here and very few people do, I'm still not likely to catch it at the grocery store and my most packed events are of course my shows and mosh pits. Are masks really going to help in such a setting with people packed like sardines?

You live in a densely packed city, you have a decent chance of catching it(and then spreading it to others, who can then spread it to others, etc) at some point. The virus might not harm you specifically, but if its allowed to spread uncontrolled, it will seriously harm enough people to hurt our society greatly(an extra 5-10% of the population developing serious chronic health issues is going to be bad). And yes, masks will still help in a densely packed environment.

1-How am I supposed to drink alcoholic beverages at a show in an N95?
2-How am I supposed to run around, regularly push and jump into people, and engage in very cardio heavy behavior while breathing in an N95?

For the first one you can pull the mask off for a second to take a drink and not breath in between pulling the mask off and back on(its easier than I think I'm making it sound). But in general, at least wear a mask when you can, for everyone.

[T'Chenka]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

[TheTide]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

There are two forms of Covid.

The first is the actual disease, which of course isn't 'over'.

The second is the cultural form of Covid - one where lockdowns, mask mandates, social distancing, travel restrictions and a general air of panic reign. This is, or should be, over.

[Fuzzy Bear]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

No one says "COVID-19 is over!"  What folks like me stand prepared to do is oppose any pretense that the pandemic is still going on as a pretext to rob people of their freedom.  Just because your country has a democratically elected Prime Minister who seeks to be a dictator does not mean that we in America should tolerate the same, whether it be on the Federal, State, or Local levels.  (Nothing personal, but Justin Trudeau is a bigger enemy to democracy than Jair Bolsinaro, and that's saying something.)

[lakeview]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

Who cares whether something is "100% fine" with you or whether you "take issue with it?" Who are you, besides some random person on the internet who slurs people as "far right conspiracy theorists" when they say stuff that offends your ego?

Who asked you to police speech like this?

[jamestroll]

You will drink the toilet bowl water

When I am talking about drinking and using toilet water I am not talking about taking a glass and putting it in the TOILET and DRINKING it.  Nor am I talking about using untreated SEWAGE to shower with or water your garden with.

I am discussing recycling toilet water to be placed directly or indirectly back into the water supply and depending on local technology, possible for potable uses as well.

I do not like the amount of trees and lawns in Salt Lake City. But playing devil's advocate, completely tearing down all trees and golf courses is impractical  and would contribute to the problem with excessively hot summers Salt Lake City is having. The heat is trending up rapidly. However, all new development should not have landscapes that would exist in Virginia or in the Amazon rainforest.

[T'Chenka]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

Who cares whether something is "100% fine" with you or whether you "take issue with it?" Who are you, besides some random person on the internet who slurs people as "far right conspiracy theorists" when they say stuff that offends your ego?

Who asked you to police speech like this?

I'm not policing s__t. I'm more pro free speech than a lot of people on this forum. Say what you want. I'm basically giving you instructions on how to not embarass yourself publically. Ignore it, I don't care.

[MATTROSE94]

You will drink the toilet bowl water

When I am talking about drinking and using toilet water I am not talking about taking a glass and putting it in the TOILET and DRINKING it.  Nor am I talking about using untreated SEWAGE to shower with or water your garden with.

I am discussing recycling toilet water to be placed directly or indirectly back into the water supply and depending on local technology, possible for potable uses as well.

I do not like the amount of trees and lawns in Salt Lake City. But playing devil's advocate, completely tearing down all trees and golf courses is impractical  and would contribute to the problem with excessively hot summers Salt Lake City is having. The heat is trending up rapidly. However, all new development should not have landscapes that would exist in Virginia or in the Amazon rainforest.

The toilet water recycling sounds like a good idea actually, as it can help fight droughts and reduce overall water consumption.

[T'Chenka]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

No one says "COVID-19 is over!"  What folks like me stand prepared to do is oppose any pretense that the pandemic is still going on as a pretext to rob people of their freedom.

Like I said...

[MT Treasurer]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

Who cares whether something is "100% fine" with you or whether you "take issue with it?" Who are you, besides some random person on the internet who slurs people as "far right conspiracy theorists" when they say stuff that offends your ego?

Who asked you to police speech like this?

I'm not policing s__t. I'm more pro free speech than a lot of people on this forum. Say what you want. I'm basically giving you instructions on how to not embarass yourself publically. Ignore it, I don't care.

There’s a reason why books about mass psychology frequently dedicate an entire chapter to the power of prestige. The threat of the herd depriving you of estimation, reputation, or basic love if you dare point out certain patterns or simply trust your own observations (duck test and all) is one of the most powerful tools to silence dissent and it’s hardly a novel method.

[jamestroll]

I don’t think serious people are doubting that COVID is bad. The trouble is, mitigation measures are bad too, whether you want to admit it or not. Wearing a mask makes work considerably more cumbersome, which has all sorts of mental health consequences. Staying home, reducing human contact, isolating… these come at horrible personal costs, not to mention economic ones. Economic costs lead to further personal ones, so it just ends up that we are in a terrible spiralling situation.

So when you have these two competing truths, one of them has to win out. Considering the sheer transmissibility of COVID, the reality that health measures are not really that effective, and the fact that this virus will NEVER go away, I think it’s clear that we just need to move on.

If you don’t want to be wearing a mask in three years, there’s no reason to wear one now. The pandemic will be the same.

I completely agree with you.

And I had the exact same opinion as you two years ago. It is clear shut downs were a mistake.

[T'Chenka]

People saying "COVID is over" are either total morons or unintentionally sounding like total morons.

If you want to say "the pandemic is over" or "the pandemic is now endemic", that's 100% fine and I won't take issue with it. Saying "COVID is over" is just nonsense and makes you sound like a far right conspiracy theorist.

Who cares whether something is "100% fine" with you or whether you "take issue with it?" Who are you, besides some random person on the internet who slurs people as "far right conspiracy theorists" when they say stuff that offends your ego?

Who asked you to police speech like this?

I'm not policing s__t. I'm more pro free speech than a lot of people on this forum. Say what you want. I'm basically giving you instructions on how to not embarass yourself publically. Ignore it, I don't care.

There’s a reason why books about mass psychology frequently dedicate an entire chapter to the power of prestige. The threat of the herd depriving you of estimation, reputation, or basic love if you dare point out certain patterns or simply trust your own observations (duck test and all) is one of the most powerful tools to silence dissent and it’s hardly a novel method.

If you notice that the sky seems pink and go on and on about it in public, people will notice your disassociation from reality very quickly.

[world.execute(me)]

Hey, I didn't know "Dr." Eric Fecal-Dingleberry joined this forum!

Can y'all actually engage with the article and my arguments instead of smugly dismissing it as nonsense because the conventional wisdom is that covid is over.

You're on the record as saying you want mask mandates forever, even if Covid entirely disappeared tomorrow, because the flu still exists or whatever.

With such an extreme position it should not be shocking that people don't take you seriously on such things.

That was months ago, and that still doesn't change the substance of my points.

It is relevant because you still have not presented an endgame. COVID will continue to circulate in the general population, whatever the level of mask-wearing; your suggestion that “each subsequent infection increases the risks” is an argument for masking in perpetuity. Given that COVID is highly infectious and you are overwhelmingly likely to contract the virus anyway, you are proposing a costly and never-ending intervention with no clear benefits. You've repeatedly pointed to this 5-10% number; even assuming that's correct (it isn't), there is little reason to believe mask mandates would cause enough of a reduction in the number of infections occurring to significantly change that number.

I, personally, am not taking your advice and do not wear a mask in any places (office, groceries, subway) where it is not required, because I do not care about the “serious risk” of a mild respiratory infection. COVID is over. Maybe my actions are contributing to some undesirable societal outcome, but we make tradeoffs between “lives and health” and a functional society in every action we take—like most Americans, I drive a gasoline-powered car and I eat meat, both of which have much more clear-cut negative impacts on the lives and health of other people. And yet everyone still does it, because the tradeoff is worth it. Same principles apply here.

Masking isn't costly. And N95s are quite effective.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

There's a sort of macabre hilarity to the consistency of the death cultists in this thread. They have no problem contributing to suffering and death of thousands, rather than face a little personal inconvenience, because they're unable to picture a world that extends beyond their immediate self, or conceive of others as actual people.

[MATTROSE94]

Hey, I didn't know "Dr." Eric Fecal-Dingleberry joined this forum!

Can y'all actually engage with the article and my arguments instead of smugly dismissing it as nonsense because the conventional wisdom is that covid is over.

You're on the record as saying you want mask mandates forever, even if Covid entirely disappeared tomorrow, because the flu still exists or whatever.

With such an extreme position it should not be shocking that people don't take you seriously on such things.

That was months ago, and that still doesn't change the substance of my points.

It is relevant because you still have not presented an endgame. COVID will continue to circulate in the general population, whatever the level of mask-wearing; your suggestion that “each subsequent infection increases the risks” is an argument for masking in perpetuity. Given that COVID is highly infectious and you are overwhelmingly likely to contract the virus anyway, you are proposing a costly and never-ending intervention with no clear benefits. You've repeatedly pointed to this 5-10% number; even assuming that's correct (it isn't), there is little reason to believe mask mandates would cause enough of a reduction in the number of infections occurring to significantly change that number.

I, personally, am not taking your advice and do not wear a mask in any places (office, groceries, subway) where it is not required, because I do not care about the “serious risk” of a mild respiratory infection. COVID is over. Maybe my actions are contributing to some undesirable societal outcome, but we make tradeoffs between “lives and health” and a functional society in every action we take—like most Americans, I drive a gasoline-powered car and I eat meat, both of which have much more clear-cut negative impacts on the lives and health of other people. And yet everyone still does it, because the tradeoff is worth it. Same principles apply here.

Masking isn't costly. And N95s are quite effective.

Some states like California, New York, Illinois, Hawaii, DC, and maybe Oregon if the Democrats somehow defy the odds and hold onto the governorship in November I think will move in the direction of N95 mandates.

[lakeview]

There's a sort of macabre hilarity to the consistency of the death cultists in this thread. They have no problem contributing to suffering and death of thousands, rather than face a little personal inconvenience, because they're unable to picture a world that extends beyond their immediate self, or conceive of others as actual people.

No one is "contributing to suffering and death of thousands" by breathing the air. This is nutso stuff. When people say "Covid is over," this is what they mean. People aren't entertaining this insanity any longer.

[jamestroll]

I am starting to notice a correlation between high quality masks and losing mental ability. I noticed I make crazier posts after I wear a n95 mask in certain situations.. and we all see Scarlet has lost her mind.

Perhaps the lack of oxygen makes n95 trade offs of protection from respiratory viruses not worth it. Especially in Colorado and Utah.

[Hammy]

I don’t think serious people are doubting that COVID is bad. The trouble is, mitigation measures are bad too, whether you want to admit it or not. Wearing a mask makes work considerably more cumbersome, which has all sorts of mental health consequences. Staying home, reducing human contact, isolating… these come at horrible personal costs, not to mention economic ones. Economic costs lead to further personal ones, so it just ends up that we are in a terrible spiralling situation.

So when you have these two competing truths, one of them has to win out. Considering the sheer transmissibility of COVID, the reality that health measures are not really that effective, and the fact that this virus will NEVER go away, I think it’s clear that we just need to move on.

If you don’t want to be wearing a mask in three years, there’s no reason to wear one now. The pandemic will be the same.

I completely agree with you.

And I had the exact same opinion as you two years ago. It is clear shut downs were a mistake.

They made perfect sense when no vaccine was available and we knew little of the virus. The problem is there was no global cooperation or uniform enforcement at the time where it would've mattered the most. The problem is people are still operating under the false assumption that covid can somehow be eradicated like earlier viruses that were far less transmissible and existed in a time with far less global travel, and in an environment where half the population refuses to vaccinate.

One doesn't have to pretend they were a bad idea at the time to acknowledge they're a bad idea now when the situation is radically different.

I am starting to notice a correlation between high quality masks and losing mental ability. I noticed I make crazier posts after I wear a n95 mask in certain situations.. and we all see Scarlet has lost her mind.

Perhaps the lack of oxygen makes n95 trade offs of protection from respiratory viruses not worth it. Especially in Colorado and Utah.

I wear an N95 any time I go to an indoor location (sometimes with a KN95 over it to keep it in place if I'm in a place, like a doctors office, where I have less control how long I'm at a location) so this makes sense. The problem is more you two represent opposite extreme ends of the covid hysteria scale.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hey, I didn't know "Dr." Eric Fecal-Dingleberry joined this forum!

Can y'all actually engage with the article and my arguments instead of smugly dismissing it as nonsense because the conventional wisdom is that covid is over.

You're on the record as saying you want mask mandates forever, even if Covid entirely disappeared tomorrow, because the flu still exists or whatever.

With such an extreme position it should not be shocking that people don't take you seriously on such things.

That was months ago, and that still doesn't change the substance of my points.

It is relevant because you still have not presented an endgame. COVID will continue to circulate in the general population, whatever the level of mask-wearing; your suggestion that “each subsequent infection increases the risks” is an argument for masking in perpetuity. Given that COVID is highly infectious and you are overwhelmingly likely to contract the virus anyway, you are proposing a costly and never-ending intervention with no clear benefits. You've repeatedly pointed to this 5-10% number; even assuming that's correct (it isn't), there is little reason to believe mask mandates would cause enough of a reduction in the number of infections occurring to significantly change that number.

I, personally, am not taking your advice and do not wear a mask in any places (office, groceries, subway) where it is not required, because I do not care about the “serious risk” of a mild respiratory infection. COVID is over. Maybe my actions are contributing to some undesirable societal outcome, but we make tradeoffs between “lives and health” and a functional society in every action we take—like most Americans, I drive a gasoline-powered car and I eat meat, both of which have much more clear-cut negative impacts on the lives and health of other people. And yet everyone still does it, because the tradeoff is worth it. Same principles apply here.

Masking isn't costly. And N95s are quite effective.

So then the question needs to be asked: when should masking end? What is the actual end point for that?

If there's no answer to that then you are effectively still calling for permanent mask mandates.