SB 110-13: Cheaper Energy Helps the Poors Act (Tabled) (user search)
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  SB 110-13: Cheaper Energy Helps the Poors Act (Tabled) (search mode)
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Author Topic: SB 110-13: Cheaper Energy Helps the Poors Act (Tabled)  (Read 2938 times)
S019
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*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« on: July 27, 2022, 02:08:51 AM »


Quote
Cheaper Energy Helps The Poors Act


Senate Bill
to boost domestic energy production to lower energy costs for working Atlasians


Section 1. Title

This Act shall be called the Cheaper Energy Helps the Poors Act.

Section 2. Red-Green Repeal

1. The Red-Green New Deal Act is hereby repealed.

2. 1.  A tax of 10% 25% shall be applied on the profits of any petroleum oil or natural gas extracted in or imported into Atlasia.

Section 3. Enactment

This bill shall come into effect ten (10) days after the date of passage.


A compromise
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2022, 12:20:21 AM »

Can we repeal the new great society act then? Because the red new deal and red society welfare programs are duplicative and overlap.
The New Great Society Act provides universal school breakfasts and lunches, infrastructure investment, pell grant expansion, and a tuition cap - there's very little overlap with the Red Green New Deal beyond some public works spending.



Quote from: Final Text
AN ACT
To make investments in our country and expand essential social programs

...

1. Beginning in January of 2022, individual adults who have a disposable income of less than $100,000 shall be entitled to $2,000 monthly checks.

2. The income received shall not be taxed or counted toward existing benefits.

...

This says if an individual adult makes $99K a year she gets a $2K welfare check every month. $24K a year per individual adult who makes less than $100K. Tax free. This is nuts. It is also way more generous than some make work program that was only created because Labor killed 100K jobs and caused a recession by outlawing 60% of our energy ceding the market to Russia and the Saudis. WD keeps claiming there is high inflation and gas prices on Discord. Why wouldnt we repeal the ridiculous red new deal?

You are aware that Canada and Norway exist right, as does Australia. We could also buy oil from the UAE, this idea that it's just Russia and the Saudis is ridiculous. Also the reason for high inflation is because the GM, to my knowledge, has not raised interest rates and this administration has not taken steps to reduce demand. I'm happy to discuss how we want to reduce inflation, but we also need to insulate ourselves from further energy shocks, moving our grid to renewables is the best way to ensure that we never again have to worry about fluctuations in the oil market.
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2022, 12:00:41 PM »

AYE
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2022, 12:03:29 PM »

Putting in my two cents: I have expressed willingness to change the UBI as well (which was originally called CUBI - the Children's Universal Basic Income - as a prototype to Yang-style UBI, but had only applied to families with children, with the intention of making it affordable to raise a family again.) And so I would also be willing to revisit this debate and lower the income threshold.

I would also re-legalize fracking in regulated settings while still maintaining a realistic goal of becoming carbon neutral. But, particularly for states and communities whose economies are reliant on increasingly economically unviable energy sources such as coal - and have seen their quality of living decrease as a result, long before the RGND - these transition and retraining programs are vital and shouldn't be slashed.

Then they shouldnt be in the garbage Red New Deal Act then. Step 1 should be repealing this economy killing monstrosity. Then yall can bring back individual proposals from the Red Deal separately, rather than lumping welfare money for West Virginia in with idiotic energy policies. We all know labor will hem and haw and try to stall the repeal of the draconian Red New Deal to run out the clock. If there are parts you want to bring back, bring them back in a separate bill. They shouldnt be packaged together with a ban on 60% of our energy and they shouldnt be used to stall and kill this present bill. Especially since, again, we are giving every west virginian $24K in welfare money free not counting the dozens and dozens of other benefit programs. I know the Labor MO is to just have eleventeen million programs that literally all do the same thing (spend money). That spending stacks up. Eliminating program A doesnt eliminate programs B - Q.

What’s in here is job retraining not handouts. I know “learn to code” is seen as bit of a joke, but this is literally a proposal to move people into the industries of the future, which it would be quite useful to have here rather than in China.
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2022, 12:12:22 PM »

You keep claiming hundreds of thousands of jobs are at stake but is there any evidence other than your hopes and dreams that these make works jobs actually employ hundreds of thousands? I doubt it.

The program was established by the text of the law and the law has appropriations for the program. It is a vast oversimplification, yes, but this entire game is a vast oversimplification of the Federal government.

Quote
Anyway, it wont matter because 1. Their real jobs will be coming back, 2. They will still be getting a stupidly high amount of welfare to transition back if they want to work at all, and 3. Their cost of living will come way down from the boosted supplies of energy resources which affect the price of everything.

1. Not all jobs will come back, especially as the transition to renewable energy continues. This isn’t even a guarantee irl, where many oil and gas producers have yet to fully restart extraction operations after the Pandemic.
2. Is fine, we can definitely change the UBI thresholds.
3. Most of the phaseout dates for fracking in the RGND aren’t in effect yet; I am happy to propose an amendment that pushes those back into the 2030s, but I doubt a full repeal would significantly increase production when the most significant portion of the law isn’t in effect yet.

Quote
Im also still laughing at the unscientific "we have to ban oil and gas to save the world, but also we can just buy it from Canada and that magically wont contribute to global warming." Thats such a stupid and terrible argument. It does nothing but increase energy costs for consumers.

S090210’s comments are his own. I don’t believe we will need to import much, if any foreign gas and oil as domestic consumption starts to fall. Ultimately this is a global trend and I expect other nations will follow our example as time passes. Again, I am more than happy to revisit the timeframe for the total ban on fracking or giving consumers more incentives to adopt cheaper and cleaner products (vehicles, generators, lawn mowers, etc.)

Quote
The faster we kill this dumb, evil law the better. The Red New Deal reads like a 4 year old wrote it. Was the stupid portfolio thing ever even carried out? Like you cant just pass a law saying "we hereby buy all energy companies" and that makes it so. How much was spent doing that? How much did each share cost? Was money actually spent on this in the budget? How long did it take? How was there no recession when this happened? Its almost like there are no in game consequences when its inconvenient for Labor but if Labor wants its garbage laws in place they claim 60 trillion people will die and lose their jobs based on no evidence.

We are playing a game. Every element is vastly oversimplified both for our own sanity and for people’s enjoyment (you yourself crib quite a bit of the language in your bills from existing code irl). It would be nice to have detailed information on all aspects of the economy, or to simulate the entire lawmaking process, but we can’t do that with the way things currently stand. I’m not sure that would be a desirable outcome, either. I think the bets we can do now is improve the way the GM works and get clarification on these questions in the future. I don’t want people to be left in the dark, but we need to establish processes for improvement in order to get the ball rolling.

All Im saying is that Labor uses the "its just a game line" inconsistently whenever its convenient to. Yall are saying its just a game so of course Labor just passed a massively consequential red new deal without full data about the pretend economy and pretend job losses, but now OMG you cant repeal it because of the pretend job losses. We all take liberties with the game to make it work. Im fine with that. But consistency in rules is important to make the game fun too. And over the past week Ive seen Laborites claim inflation and gas prices are high because Cao is President, and yet when thill bill is introduced to bring those down Laborites are asking why we think gas prices are high. There was little interest in calculating the economic impact and unemployment when passing the red new deal but now that we wish to repeal it, thats all Labir is asking for. I think its safe to assume that repealing the red new deal reverts us to the unemployment status quo from before the red new deal was adopted.

Plus, whose to say a future GM wont reverse climate change or create nuclear fusion. I had a planned story idea to recognize nuclear fusion when I was GM that never went forward. Climate change does not have to be an assumption in game.

I see you haven’t paid attention to anything. The important thing is getting people off of fossil fuels in order to insulate ourselves from further shocks. In the meantime, we can temporarily increase supply from nations like Norway and the UAE to drive down prices. But ultimately, this repeal is just a band-aid, and unless we truly divest from fossil fuels we will be vulnerable to these same oil shocks in the future.
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2022, 03:08:23 AM »

Pre-Emptive Vote on Final Bill: No
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2022, 03:15:08 AM »

Aye
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S019
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,248
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -1.39

P P P

« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2022, 09:09:46 PM »

AYE
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