FL school board votes to treat gay kids as sex offenders

[GALeftist]

Hey where's ElectionsGuy at? I seem to recall his flying off the handle about the libs mischaracterizing the bill on a weekly basis not long ago. Surely he has a perfectly reasonable explanation for this.

[wesmoorenerd]

It's a tricky slope here.  No one wants kids in a situation where girls are looked at in an objectified matter by boys (or, to a lesser degree, boys looked at in an objectified manner by girls).  School is not about that.  Now, however, we have gotten into "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in schools, so how unfair is it, really, to not want your daughter to be subject to be looked at in an objectified way by another girl(s) or not want your son to be subject to being looked at in an objectified way by another boy(s)?

The fact is that High School Students are not supposed to be sexually active.  I live in the real world, of course, but they're not to be sexually active, and schools aren't supposed to encourage this.  This is where we're at, however.  If we don't want kids to be objectified by students of the opposite sex, why should it be less of a concern for parents that their child be objectified by students of the same sex?

Parents have a right (and, arguably, a duty) to ensure that their underage children are not sexually active.  That has become more complicated these days, but the principle still applies.

"High school students," and people in that age cohort more broadly, have always been sexually active. Literally for all of human history. The opinions of some old man in Florida do not change that fact, even if that man has placed a great deal of misguided confidence in his beliefs. Failing to acknowledge this fact with BS like abstinence-only sex ed and parental consent for abortions is catastrophic and just leads to inevitably sexually active young people making poor and ill-informed decisions.

Putting that aside, your reply here doesn't even begin to substantively engage with the topic of the thread. A young gay or trans student merely existing in a school space does not amount to "objectification of other students by the same sex." Frankly, your reduction of young people to nothing more than their sexuality and gender identity is disturbing and insulting, and it plays on intensely homophobic and transphobic tropes that LGBTQ people are sexual deviants and predators. Shame on you for saying this about literal children. Gay and trans people have the right to exist in public without being seen as a threat, and gay and trans children have the right to a comfortable school environment free from the prejudice people like you exhibit.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1543370701314396161?s=20&t=_E9iw4LWge...

https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1543371566452465669?s=20&t=_E9iw4LWge...

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

It's a tricky slope here.  No one wants kids in a situation where girls are looked at in an objectified matter by boys (or, to a lesser degree, boys looked at in an objectified manner by girls).  School is not about that.  Now, however, we have gotten into "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in schools, so how unfair is it, really, to not want your daughter to be subject to be looked at in an objectified way by another girl(s) or not want your son to be subject to being looked at in an objectified way by another boy(s)?

The fact is that High School Students are not supposed to be sexually active.  I live in the real world, of course, but they're not to be sexually active, and schools aren't supposed to encourage this.  This is where we're at, however.  If we don't want kids to be objectified by students of the opposite sex, why should it be less of a concern for parents that their child be objectified by students of the same sex?

Parents have a right (and, arguably, a duty) to ensure that their underage children are not sexually active.  That has become more complicated these days, but the principle still applies.

"High school students," and people in that age cohort more broadly, have always been sexually active. Literally for all of human history. The opinions of some old man in Florida do not change that fact, even if that man has placed a great deal of misguided confidence in his beliefs. Failing to acknowledge this fact with BS like abstinence-only sex ed and parental consent for abortions is catastrophic and just leads to inevitably sexually active young people making poor and ill-informed decisions.

Putting that aside, your reply here doesn't even begin to substantively engage with the topic of the thread. A young gay or trans student merely existing in a school space does not amount to "objectification of other students by the same sex." Frankly, your reduction of young people to nothing more than their sexuality and gender identity is disturbing and insulting, and it plays on intensely homophobic and transphobic tropes that LGBTQ people are sexual deviants and predators. Shame on you for saying this about literal children. Gay and trans people have the right to exist in public without being seen as a threat, and gay and trans children have the right to a comfortable school environment free from the prejudice people like you exhibit.

I'm well aware of people being sexually active in High School.  I was sexually active in high school.  It wasn't something that was good for me, but I was sexually active.  

I'm also a parent.  I doubt you are, but I am, and part of safety in schools is minors not being looked at in a sexual way while in school.  That can't be guaranteed now, given the ways of the world.  Perhaps it never could be guaranteed, but people are more aware of this.  The idea of anyone of either gender looking at my 17 year old son in a sexual way in a gym setting in a public high school is not something I think to be a positive thing.  Because high school students are not prepared for sexual activity.  They are not prepared financially, and they are not prepared emotionally.

I try to be as understanding as I can be about this, but one of the aspects of the arguments put forth by many of the gay/trans activists here is that IT'S ALL ABOUT THEM!  Damn whatever ordinary parents (or ordinary kids, for that matter) may think; it's all about the LGBT kids, and everyone else can just take their concerns and shove them.  You come off that way, and I'm not going to backtrack on that.  How much self-awareness YOU have is between you and whomever you are accountable to in this world.  But here's a newsflash:  Parents of straight teenagers are concerned about the well-being of THEIR kids, and if they don't want their daughters looked upon sexually by a boy, why should they want either their daughters or their sons being looked upon that way by someone of either sex?  (I don't wish for my son to be lustfully looking at girls either, but he's homeschooled, and he's been taught differently on this subject than what you advocate.)

Unless I'm missing something, you're not a parent.  My wife and I are.  And whatever you think of parents who don't see it your way, don't forget that those parents have a responsibility to THEIR children's safety and well-being.  

EDIT:  The above post shows that the policy we're talking about here, far from treating gay/trans kids as "sex offenders", is an earnest attempt to bridge all sides of this complicated issue.  Imagine that; an Atlas Poster starting a thread on a false premise.  Heavens to Mergatroid; how could this be?

[Devout Centrist]

The fact is that High School Students are not supposed to be sexually active.  I live in the real world, of course,

No you don't.

[7,052,770]

From the original Tweeter that spawned the thread. There's a thread below if you want to read further.

https://twitter.com/BenjaminJS/status/1543414123811115009

Like I said earlier, it's obvious that the policy was a good-faith effort to be accommodating to both LGBT students and families, and also anti-LGBT parents. It's fixable without having completely shred and start over.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Might as well start handing out pink stars to LGBTQ children.

Fascism has only just begun.

[Walker Jones]

PS: The actual policy is here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22074439-the-leon-county-school-districts-lgbtq-inclusive-guide-with-amendments

It actually is fixable. It seems like the district is "trying" to simultaneously be somewhat accommodating of LGBT students and also do something to help the bigots' feelings, but you're never going to be able to do both. Obviously most Republicans are going to think this policy doesn't go far enough.

Ultimately, it's none of your God damn business if another student at your child's school is LGBT unless that student/family wants you to know.

I read the policy. Can anyone tell me where it says LgBT students should be treated like sex offenders?

[BlueSwan]

It's a tricky slope here.  No one wants kids in a situation where girls are looked at in an objectified matter by boys (or, to a lesser degree, boys looked at in an objectified manner by girls).  School is not about that.  Now, however, we have gotten into "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in schools, so how unfair is it, really, to not want your daughter to be subject to be looked at in an objectified way by another girl(s) or not want your son to be subject to being looked at in an objectified way by another boy(s)?

The fact is that High School Students are not supposed to be sexually active.  I live in the real world, of course, but they're not to be sexually active, and schools aren't supposed to encourage this.  This is where we're at, however.  If we don't want kids to be objectified by students of the opposite sex, why should it be less of a concern for parents that their child be objectified by students of the same sex?

Parents have a right (and, arguably, a duty) to ensure that their underage children are not sexually active.  That has become more complicated these days, but the principle still applies.

"High school students," and people in that age cohort more broadly, have always been sexually active. Literally for all of human history. The opinions of some old man in Florida do not change that fact, even if that man has placed a great deal of misguided confidence in his beliefs. Failing to acknowledge this fact with BS like abstinence-only sex ed and parental consent for abortions is catastrophic and just leads to inevitably sexually active young people making poor and ill-informed decisions.

Putting that aside, your reply here doesn't even begin to substantively engage with the topic of the thread. A young gay or trans student merely existing in a school space does not amount to "objectification of other students by the same sex." Frankly, your reduction of young people to nothing more than their sexuality and gender identity is disturbing and insulting, and it plays on intensely homophobic and transphobic tropes that LGBTQ people are sexual deviants and predators. Shame on you for saying this about literal children. Gay and trans people have the right to exist in public without being seen as a threat, and gay and trans children have the right to a comfortable school environment free from the prejudice people like you exhibit.

I'm well aware of people being sexually active in High School.  I was sexually active in high school.  It wasn't something that was good for me, but I was sexually active.  

I'm also a parent.  I doubt you are, but I am, and part of safety in schools is minors not being looked at in a sexual way while in school.  That can't be guaranteed now, given the ways of the world.  Perhaps it never could be guaranteed, but people are more aware of this.  The idea of anyone of either gender looking at my 17 year old son in a sexual way in a gym setting in a public high school is not something I think to be a positive thing.  Because high school students are not prepared for sexual activity.  They are not prepared financially, and they are not prepared emotionally.

I try to be as understanding as I can be about this, but one of the aspects of the arguments put forth by many of the gay/trans activists here is that IT'S ALL ABOUT THEM!  Damn whatever ordinary parents (or ordinary kids, for that matter) may think; it's all about the LGBT kids, and everyone else can just take their concerns and shove them.  You come off that way, and I'm not going to backtrack on that.  How much self-awareness YOU have is between you and whomever you are accountable to in this world.  But here's a newsflash:  Parents of straight teenagers are concerned about the well-being of THEIR kids, and if they don't want their daughters looked upon sexually by a boy, why should they want either their daughters or their sons being looked upon that way by someone of either sex?  (I don't wish for my son to be lustfully looking at girls either, but he's homeschooled, and he's been taught differently on this subject than what you advocate.)

Unless I'm missing something, you're not a parent.  My wife and I are.  And whatever you think of parents who don't see it your way, don't forget that those parents have a responsibility to THEIR children's safety and well-being.  

EDIT:  The above post shows that the policy we're talking about here, far from treating gay/trans kids as "sex offenders", is an earnest attempt to bridge all sides of this complicated issue.  Imagine that; an Atlas Poster starting a thread on a false premise.  Heavens to Mergatroid; how could this be?

Newsflash. 17 year old ARE going to look at each other in a sexual way. Nothing you say or do will ever change that. You can put the girls in burkas like the Taliban, guys will still get horny looking at them if they are the only girls around. I'm not sure what kind of brain washing you have been exposed to, but it must have been severe.

[Adam Griffin]

What is going on in Florida?

In the past few days, we've had horrible policies unveiled and/or passed - in two of the most Democratic counties in the state (Orange and Leon). How and why is this happening? Are there still a bunch of Dixiecrats and/or anti-gay elected officials on these boards?

[DrScholl]

T

[DrScholl]

The repercussions of that bill were never going to be as non-existent as it's supporters claimed.

[Hammy]

What is going on in Florida?

In the past few days, we've had horrible policies unveiled and/or passed - in two of the most Democratic counties in the state (Orange and Leon). How and why is this happening? Are there still a bunch of Dixiecrats and/or anti-gay elected officials on these boards?

It's Florida. Having lived there for most of my life I can safely say not one person in that state, Democrat or Republican, political or otherwise, knows what the hell they're doing

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is going on in Florida?

In the past few days, we've had horrible policies unveiled and/or passed - in two of the most Democratic counties in the state (Orange and Leon). How and why is this happening? Are there still a bunch of Dixiecrats and/or anti-gay elected officials on these boards?

What's going on is that people are falling for sensationalist rumors about local school district policies.

[If my soul was made of stone]

What is going on in Florida?

In the past few days, we've had horrible policies unveiled and/or passed - in two of the most Democratic counties in the state (Orange and Leon). How and why is this happening? Are there still a bunch of Dixiecrats and/or anti-gay elected officials on these boards?

The people who care most about school boards being Muh Property Value crypto-reactionaries, of course.

[T'Chenka]

Newsflash. 17 year old ARE going to look at each other in a sexual way. Nothing you say or do will ever change that. You can put the girls in burkas like the Taliban, guys will still get horny looking at them if they are the only girls around. I'm not sure what kind of brain washing you have been exposed to, but it must have been severe.

I can kind of see Fuzzy's point, partially, in that sense that enough kids are already sexually active enough in high school, and the school should NOT encourage it. I agree with Fuzzy 100% on that. Where I think Fuzzy is wrong is that I think the school should not actively discourage it either. Let kids make their own dating decisions, and maybe parents have some say too (or not... another topic for another thread). The school itself should not be directly involved in that decision on a policy level. The school should also accept that kids ARE dating and offer free condoms to students.