Manchin and Sinema oppose any sort of filibuster carve out

[Hammy]

Something else I'll add here is Democrats seem pathologically unable to grasp how much appearances matter. "Democrats did nothing when they had both chambers" is going to play so much worse with voters than than "we tried but Republicans interfered wherever they could, we need more seats"

[Lief 🗽]

Good Lord, at this point no one should be surprised, much less upset.  They're not changing for anything.

It’s easier for certain people to continue throwing tantrums than it is to admit defeat and start trying something else.

There is literally nothing that can be done.
The legislative branch is in complete paralysis because two cheap whores got paid to put it there. He can’t make laws by fiat.

Democrats could put up bills to protect abortions for reasons of the mother’s life, for rape, for incest, up to 12 weeks, up to 16 weeks, etc that would all get unanimous support from Democrats and split the Republicans. I don’t know if you’d get 60 votes, but it’s at least worth trying, and unlike what they are currently doing, it would unite the Democrats rather than encouraging more endless intraparty squabbling.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Demings in Act Blue website Is don't have the link yet but it will be posted soon on Twitter is down only 46)48 with WI, PA, OH and FL and NC that's 55 seats but  clearly we're not losing red states as Rs think by a 9)12, some Rs think DeSantis is SUPERMAN AND CAN BEAT CRIST BY 9/12 AND JD VANCE, LOL the only one that was SUPERMAN WERE GRASSLEY AND PORTMAN WHOM WIN THEIR RACES BY 20 AND IA IS SAFE R UNTIL WE GET A POLL

LIKE I SAID THE REASON WHY IPSOS HAS BIDEN AT 36% ONLY 7% Rs Approval of Biden Biden is not at 36% he's at 44%

Rs want to go back to Trump where the tax cuts caused the greatest inequality of wealt, tax cuts for the richest Americans since the 1970 and Collins and Murkowski said no to more tax cuts

[7,052,770]

Would Murkowski and Collins support one for the bill they wrote? Try to pass that.

[MATTROSE94]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Manchin I understand given he's from a deep Trump state. The goal of his job is to represent his people, who are gonna be skeptical of a lot of Dems agenda and frankly if he was voting just like any other liberal Dem taht would be concerning for the state of our democracy.

Sinema on the other hand represents swingy AZ, and several things she has held out from doing are widely popular in the state. Sinema's political journey is fascinating given she used to be very liberal and Green.

My main issue is not so much that she's "Independent", but rather she doesn't offer alternatives she'd be willing to go with to solve these issues that she seems to acknowledge are serious issues. If you're not willing to override the filibuster, come up with something you can get some Republicans onboard with, possibly like nationwide abortion exceptions for rape and incest or universal voter ID.

[Yoda]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

Sinema would lose a republican primary possibly even more badly than she's going to lose her next primary as a democrat. AZ republicans are simply not going to nominate Sinema when they can get Kelli Ward or any other number of crazed republicans as their nominee. Spitting in the face of your base - repeatedly - in a futile effort to appeal to some imagined "middle" constituency that loves the filibuster (not in the constitution) above voting rights and reproductive freedom always was and always will be among the dumbest political moves I have ever seen in my lifetime. We have to get away from this ridiculous idea that Sinema is some kind of genius. It's simply wrong.

Now Manchin, he could potentially switch at some point. A lot depends on whether dems hold or expand their Senate majority. He would not be as doomed in a republican primary, but of course would still have an uphill climb.

[ProgressiveModerate]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

Sinema would lose a republican primary possibly even more badly than she's going to lose her next primary as a democrat. AZ republicans are simply not going to nominate Sinema when they can get Kelli Ward or any other number of crazed republicans as their nominee. Spitting in the face of your base - repeatedly - in a futile effort to appeal to some imagined "middle" constituency that loves the filibuster (not in the constitution) above voting rights and reproductive freedom always was and always will be among the dumbest political moves I have ever seen in my lifetime. We have to get away from this ridiculous idea that Sinema is some kind of genius. It's simply wrong.

Now Manchin, he could potentially switch at some point. A lot depends on whether dems hold or expand their Senate majority. He would not be as doomed in a republican primary, but of course would still have an uphill climb.

Sinema is a bit weird because she's seemed to move right throughout her tenure even though there's been more and more evidence AZ has been shifting left long term. Had she just stayed on the dl like Kelly with occasional opposition to Dems, she likely would've easily won re-election in 2024. Perhaps she plans on retiring?

Manchin will only switch if he has "permission" (i.e. not a tied Senate).

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Good Lord, at this point no one should be surprised, much less upset.  They're not changing for anything.

It’s easier for certain people to continue throwing tantrums than it is to admit defeat and start trying something else.

There is literally nothing that can be done.
The legislative branch is in complete paralysis because two cheap whores got paid to put it there. He can’t make laws by fiat.

Democrats could put up bills to protect abortions for reasons of the mother’s life, for rape, for incest, up to 12 weeks, up to 16 weeks, etc that would all get unanimous support from Democrats and split the Republicans. I don’t know if you’d get 60 votes, but it’s at least worth trying, and unlike what they are currently doing, it would unite the Democrats rather than encouraging more endless intraparty squabbling.

I know you absolutely can’t get anything substantial through the Senate with the unconstitutional rules currently in place. The absolute best you can do is a half assed bill that protects abortions in certain circumstances on Wednesday’s after a 9 month waiting period.

Handing over half assed measures to a blue ribbon committee just defuses the issue (because look how reasonable those good Republicans are being) and rewards the bad faith actors that are stopping you from doing anything.

[MATTROSE94]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

Sinema would lose a republican primary possibly even more badly than she's going to lose her next primary as a democrat. AZ republicans are simply not going to nominate Sinema when they can get Kelli Ward or any other number of crazed republicans as their nominee. Spitting in the face of your base - repeatedly - in a futile effort to appeal to some imagined "middle" constituency that loves the filibuster (not in the constitution) above voting rights and reproductive freedom always was and always will be among the dumbest political moves I have ever seen in my lifetime. We have to get away from this ridiculous idea that Sinema is some kind of genius. It's simply wrong.

Now Manchin, he could potentially switch at some point. A lot depends on whether dems hold or expand their Senate majority. He would not be as doomed in a republican primary, but of course would still have an uphill climb.

Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin could potentially win a Republican Senate primary if there are multiple pro Trump candidates running. Also, they both could run as independents who agree to caucus with Republicans if they lose hypothetical Republican Senate primaries as well. Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin have a lot of local support in their respective home states, so maybe they could win election to the Senate as Republican aligned independents with a plurality.

[Sir Mohamed]

Not sure whether I read too much fiction, just sometimes I wonder whether there's nothing Biden or Schumer could play hardball with them? Don't they have anything to pressure dissenting voices here?

That said, nobody should be surprised by this. I'm afraid Dems need to wait for the next trifecta with a working majority and the final red state senators/reps out of office. Unfortunately, not very likely before the end of this decade or the next.

Sinema is definitely DOA for the 2024 primary, that much is certain. Even more DOA than Manchin is for reelection in WV that year.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Not sure whether I read too much fiction, just sometimes I wonder whether there's nothing Biden or Schumer could play hardball with them? Don't they have anything to pressure dissenting voices here?

That said, nobody should be surprised by this. I'm afraid Dems need to wait for the next trifecta with a working majority and the final red state senators/reps out of office. Unfortunately, not very likely before the end of this decade or the next.

Sinema is definitely DOA for the 2024 primary, that much is certain. Even more DOA than Manchin is for reelection in WV that year.

D's can still win a Secular Trifecta 52/49 S and 218 H the poll have been on the uptick sice abortion but not question Ukraine is having a detrimental effect on Biden Approvals since the gas prices if D's net the Trifecta and get 52 seats and 218 in H the Filibuster will be eliminated

[Mr. Smith]

Manchin I understand given he's from a deep Trump state. The goal of his job is to represent his people, who are gonna be skeptical of a lot of Dems agenda and frankly if he was voting just like any other liberal Dem taht would be concerning for the state of our democracy.

Sinema on the other hand represents swingy AZ, and several things she has held out from doing are widely popular in the state. Sinema's political journey is fascinating given she used to be very liberal and Green.

My main issue is not so much that she's "Independent", but rather she doesn't offer alternatives she'd be willing to go with to solve these issues that she seems to acknowledge are serious issues. If you're not willing to override the filibuster, come up with something you can get some Republicans onboard with, possibly like nationwide abortion exceptions for rape and incest or universal voter ID.

Jon Tester doesn't act like this despite similar circumstances.

[Pericles]

Manchin might not vote for the codification even if it was somehow a 50 vote threshold.

They literally already had a vote on a bill and he didn't. It was 49-51.

[Pres Mike]

Good Lord, at this point no one should be surprised, much less upset.  They're not changing for anything.

It’s easier for certain people to continue throwing tantrums than it is to admit defeat and start trying something else.

There is literally nothing that can be done.
The legislative branch is in complete paralysis because two cheap whores got paid to put it there. He can’t make laws by fiat.

Democrats could put up bills to protect abortions for reasons of the mother’s life, for rape, for incest, up to 12 weeks, up to 16 weeks, etc that would all get unanimous support from Democrats and split the Republicans. I don’t know if you’d get 60 votes, but it’s at least worth trying, and unlike what they are currently doing, it would unite the Democrats rather than encouraging more endless intraparty squabbling.

I posted a whole thread about this.

Democrats could easily pass a bill that allows for exceptions for rape, incest and health of mother. That would get 60 votes. But the twitter activist left won't let them because it would be seen as conceding.

I personally don't think a 12 week would get 10 republican votes but why not try? But Democrats in congress and twitter insist this is the hill to die on. All or nothing.

[Lief 🗽]

Yeah, I mean the fact of the matter is that Manchin and Sinema have been saying this since January 2021. And a lot of us thought they might eventually budge, but by now it should be abundantly clear to everyone that they are not going to. So please come up with a plan besides yelling at them some more!

[ProgressiveModerate]

Manchin I understand given he's from a deep Trump state. The goal of his job is to represent his people, who are gonna be skeptical of a lot of Dems agenda and frankly if he was voting just like any other liberal Dem taht would be concerning for the state of our democracy.

Sinema on the other hand represents swingy AZ, and several things she has held out from doing are widely popular in the state. Sinema's political journey is fascinating given she used to be very liberal and Green.

My main issue is not so much that she's "Independent", but rather she doesn't offer alternatives she'd be willing to go with to solve these issues that she seems to acknowledge are serious issues. If you're not willing to override the filibuster, come up with something you can get some Republicans onboard with, possibly like nationwide abortion exceptions for rape and incest or universal voter ID.

Jon Tester doesn't act like this despite similar circumstances.

Firstly, West Virginia is over twice as red as Montana.

Secondly, there is some hope for Dems in Montana due to growth in places like Helena, Bozeman, and Missoula, plus the possibility of winning a Congressional District and breaking GOP supermajorities in the legislature. WV on the other hand has been a downhill spiral for Dems; their position in the legislature has collapsed dramatically the past few cycles, and they're losing all the row row offices they once held; heck, the governor literally changed parties. Furthermore, there really isn't a clear Dem base in WV at this point beyond people who may still be registered as Ds but for all intensive purposes align more with Republicans today. In Montana, their are actually very clear Dem communities that Tester wouldn't want to piss off; mainly ski resort towns and Native Americans.

All in all though, I am suprised Tester hasn't been more critical of the Biden administration, and if he chooses to run again, he will face a very tough re-election come 2024. Manchin's re-election will be a zillion times harder and close to impossible.

[Mr. Smith]

Good Lord, at this point no one should be surprised, much less upset.  They're not changing for anything.

It’s easier for certain people to continue throwing tantrums than it is to admit defeat and start trying something else.

There is literally nothing that can be done.
The legislative branch is in complete paralysis because two cheap whores got paid to put it there. He can’t make laws by fiat.

Democrats could put up bills to protect abortions for reasons of the mother’s life, for rape, for incest, up to 12 weeks, up to 16 weeks, etc that would all get unanimous support from Democrats and split the Republicans. I don’t know if you’d get 60 votes, but it’s at least worth trying, and unlike what they are currently doing, it would unite the Democrats rather than encouraging more endless intraparty squabbling.

I posted a whole thread about this.

Democrats could easily pass a bill that allows for exceptions for rape, incest and health of mother. That would get 60 votes. But the twitter activist left won't let them because it would be seen as conceding.

I personally don't think a 12 week would get 10 republican votes but why not try? But Democrats in congress and twitter insist this is the hill to die on. All or nothing.

Why try if it's a foregone conclusion that it won't get 10 votes needed? Or have you forgotten about how ACA went down in the first place.

[Yoda]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

Sinema would lose a republican primary possibly even more badly than she's going to lose her next primary as a democrat. AZ republicans are simply not going to nominate Sinema when they can get Kelli Ward or any other number of crazed republicans as their nominee. Spitting in the face of your base - repeatedly - in a futile effort to appeal to some imagined "middle" constituency that loves the filibuster (not in the constitution) above voting rights and reproductive freedom always was and always will be among the dumbest political moves I have ever seen in my lifetime. We have to get away from this ridiculous idea that Sinema is some kind of genius. It's simply wrong.

Now Manchin, he could potentially switch at some point. A lot depends on whether dems hold or expand their Senate majority. He would not be as doomed in a republican primary, but of course would still have an uphill climb.

Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin could potentially win a Republican Senate primary if there are multiple pro Trump candidates running. Also, they both could run as independents who agree to caucus with Republicans if they lose hypothetical Republican Senate primaries as well. Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin have a lot of local support in their respective home states, so maybe they could win election to the Senate as Republican aligned independents with a plurality.

I disagree that two senators who voted to convict trump in both of his impeachment trials stand meaningful chances of winning republican primaries. I just don't see how it happens. No MAGA voter is going to go for them when given a more slavishly pro-trump alternative. Sure, primaries could start out with multiple pro-trump candidates, but the field would whittle down to one or two of them.

[wesmoorenerd]

The margin of Sinema's primary loss to Gallego in a couple years is going to be something else I tell you what.

I think Krysten Sinema will switch parties later this year alongside Joe Manchin. Both she and Manchin are better fits for the anti-Trump wing of the Republican Senate caucus.

Sinema would lose a republican primary possibly even more badly than she's going to lose her next primary as a democrat. AZ republicans are simply not going to nominate Sinema when they can get Kelli Ward or any other number of crazed republicans as their nominee. Spitting in the face of your base - repeatedly - in a futile effort to appeal to some imagined "middle" constituency that loves the filibuster (not in the constitution) above voting rights and reproductive freedom always was and always will be among the dumbest political moves I have ever seen in my lifetime. We have to get away from this ridiculous idea that Sinema is some kind of genius. It's simply wrong.

Now Manchin, he could potentially switch at some point. A lot depends on whether dems hold or expand their Senate majority. He would not be as doomed in a republican primary, but of course would still have an uphill climb.

Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin could potentially win a Republican Senate primary if there are multiple pro Trump candidates running. Also, they both could run as independents who agree to caucus with Republicans if they lose hypothetical Republican Senate primaries as well. Both Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin have a lot of local support in their respective home states, so maybe they could win election to the Senate as Republican aligned independents with a plurality.

I disagree that two senators who voted to convict trump in both of his impeachment trials stand meaningful chances of winning republican primaries. I just don't see how it happens. No MAGA voter is going to go for them when given a more slavishly pro-trump alternative. Sure, primaries could start out with multiple pro-trump candidates, but the field would whittle down to one or two of them.

Yeah, it's a laughable idea. Sinema couldn't win either party's nomination at this point.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Franken the comedian  said last night if D's win all the tossup races, Al Franken loves Mike Franken too, IA, NC, FL, OH as well as blue wall S and D's are targeting Grassley, IA is still a swing state, then D's will keep the Trifecta

Rs love to say D's want to ban guns but ban concealed carry and raise taxes only want to raise the cap on SSA beyond 150 K it's currently on, to get people on there side

We are leading in OH Senate that is big news by 9 pts if we win OH we hurt Rs chances and it's detrimental, we won on provisions ballots not based on rigged election another falsehood but by Trump because he never held office before, Bush W, Cheney, Karl Rove knee exactly what Provisions ballots that cause Rs to lose Bush W passed it right before 2004 election, that's why the Cheney's are defending Democracy on the Committee


Guest what Provisions ballots are they are college students that have a college residence and in between home and school mostly under 30 yr olds and black and brown and female so the users quotes oh the polls underestimate WC vote, No wrong story, provisions ballots are black and brown under 30 votes 300 K votes statewide