Does anyone seriously think DeSantis can win?

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic. He may not be a good man, or even that effective politically, but he’s got an infectious and charismatic persona.

Obama, similarly, was commanding, charismatic, a true leader just by the power of his oratory

DeSantis is even less appealing than Biden in terms of his personality. He’s got a whiny nasal voice, he’s dis likable; he’s seen as the “Don’t Say Gay” guy. His only support is from die hard Republicans; Trump had the support of anti establishment independents and people who would’ve been say Perot voters back in the 90s.

How can DeSantis win, even against a weakened Biden?

[Alben Barkley]

Trump is only persuasive to idiots, only funny unintentionally, and only charismatic to psychopaths.

[S019]

He can definitely win the nomination and if Biden remains this unpopular, he’d have a very good chance of winning the general too.

[MiddleRoad]

Trump is only persuasive to idiots, only funny unintentionally, and only charismatic to psychopaths.

I think you can hate someone and still give them credit where it’s due.

IE, Richard Nixon may have been corrupt as all hell, but he was also insanely intelligent

IE Joe Biden may be corrupt and morally disgusting, but he at one time had a folksy charm which made him seem like an “Average Joe”

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

How many of those 72 million would have also voted for any other Republican nominee, though?

Considering you had 4 years of Trump’s record to go by at that point, I’d say most probably voted for Trump, not against Biden. If he were a generic Republican I’d be more inclined to agree

[Utah Neolib]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

[Utah Neolib]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

[Utah Neolib]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

I agree, and DeSantis isn’t particularly charismatic.

[Mr. Smith]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

I agree, and DeSantis isn’t particularly charismatic.

Charisma isn't everything. At least twice in my lifetime, the charismatic candidate actually lost the popular vote.

2020 primaries saw many charismatic faces ultimately not even make it to Iowa.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

The thing with DeSantis is, regardless of weather or not you agree with him on policy (I don’t) but regardless of weather or not you do, he just isn’t likeable and someone you want to “see” as president

[MiddleRoad]

The thing with DeSantis is, regardless of weather or not you agree with him on policy (I don’t) but regardless of weather or not you do, he just isn’t likeable and someone you want to “see” as president

Exactly my point. He reminds me a lot of Al Gore (who I think should’ve been President) in the charisma department

[SnowLabrador]

DeSantis is going to be the nominee, and I think he'll win against Biden or Harris. We need to run a better candidate.

[MiddleRoad]

DeSantis is going to be the nominee, and I think he'll win against Biden or Harris. We need to run a better candidate.

Biden will win against DeSantis. Don’t kid yourself.

[SnowLabrador]

DeSantis is going to be the nominee, and I think he'll win against Biden or Harris. We need to run a better candidate.

Biden will win against DeSantis. Don’t kid yourself.

Look at Biden, and look at DeSantis. Who do you think excites voters more?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

You  claimed he was "persuasive, funny, charismatic" which he is emphatically not.

From dictionary.com

Charismatic is used to describe people who have an outgoing, energetic, and likable personality that seems to naturally draw other people to them.

Charismatic is the adjective form of the noun charisma, which refers to the magnetic and charming personal quality that draws people to someone. A person with charisma is thought to be able to easily influence others.

Charismatic is most often used in a positive way as a compliment, but it can also be applied to people who influence others in a negative way, such as a charismatic cult leader.

The word is also used in a more specific way to refer to Christians who pursue ecstatic or trancelike religious experiences (like speaking in tongues) that are outside of more mainstream beliefs.

Donnie Dumb**** does indeed seem to be able to influence some people, primarily by appealing to their worst impulses. That makes him a hate- and fear-monger, not charismatic. He is a shameless liar and con-artist. That makes him a sociopath and a crook, not charismatic. Trump is able to fool the credulous. That makes him a charlatan, not charismatic.

Charisma does not equate to goodness. But it does involve charm and grace, neither of which ex-President Pussygrabber possesses in the slightest. In the future, Republicans may lie to themselves that it was Trump's charisma that caused them to support such awfulness, but they will be lying to themselves then, much as they do now.

(If you want to argue that Trump is "charismatic" in that he gibbers nonsense while mangling Christianity, I'll give you a technical win, but I do not think that is how you meant it.)

[MiddleRoad]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

You  claimed he was "persuasive, funny, charismatic" which he is emphatically not.

From dictionary.com

Charismatic is used to describe people who have an outgoing, energetic, and likable personality that seems to naturally draw other people to them.

Charismatic is the adjective form of the noun charisma, which refers to the magnetic and charming personal quality that draws people to someone. A person with charisma is thought to be able to easily influence others.

Charismatic is most often used in a positive way as a compliment, but it can also be applied to people who influence others in a negative way, such as a charismatic cult leader.

The word is also used in a more specific way to refer to Christians who pursue ecstatic or trancelike religious experiences (like speaking in tongues) that are outside of more mainstream beliefs.

Donnie Dumb**** does indeed seem to be able to influence some people, primarily by appealing to their worst impulses. That makes him a hate- and fear-monger, not charismatic. He is a shameless liar and con-artist. That makes him a sociopath and a crook, not charismatic. Trump is able to fool the credulous. That makes him a charlatan, not charismatic.

Charisma does not equate to goodness. But it does involve charm and grace, neither of which ex-President Pussygrabber possesses in the slightest. In the future, Republicans may lie to themselves that it was Trump's charisma that caused them to support such awfulness, but they will be lying to themselves then, much as they do now.

(If you want to argue that Trump is "charismatic" in that he gibbers nonsense while mangling Christianity, I'll give you a technical win, but I do not think that is how you meant it.)

He influenced millions of people to vote for him twice.

Also, would argue most politicians are shameless liars and that anyone who seeks the Presidency is likely a sociopath, like most leaders.

You can’t bend and twist charisma to mean what you want it. Hitler was charismatic and was able to draw a nation to atrocity. Charismatic is not being used here to substitute for “morally good.” A person can be evil and still have charisma; that’s how most sociopaths and narcissists succeed in life

[MR DARK BRANDON]

The thing with DeSantis is, regardless of weather or not you agree with him on policy (I don’t) but regardless of weather or not you do, he just isn’t likeable and someone you want to “see” as president

Exactly my point. He reminds me a lot of Al Gore (who I think should’ve been President) in the charisma department

He also just pisses ppl off very easily, even when he does not deserve ppl being pissed off at him (there have been a few instances where this happened)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic.

No, I do not. Trump babbles garbage and nonsense, appeals to peoples' worst instincts, and what little humor he attempts is feces-flinging and kicking down.  Donnie Dumb**** the traitor is in a better position to lose the 2024 election for the GOP than any other candidate.

Would say 72 million disagree with you

81 million disagree with you.

Sounds like a divided country.

Well obviously it is, but 81 million is obviously higher than Trump’s 2020 total of 74 million.

My point was that you don’t have to like Trump to agree he’s charismatic, which was a pretty fair point.

You  claimed he was "persuasive, funny, charismatic" which he is emphatically not.

From dictionary.com

Charismatic is used to describe people who have an outgoing, energetic, and likable personality that seems to naturally draw other people to them.

Charismatic is the adjective form of the noun charisma, which refers to the magnetic and charming personal quality that draws people to someone. A person with charisma is thought to be able to easily influence others.

Charismatic is most often used in a positive way as a compliment, but it can also be applied to people who influence others in a negative way, such as a charismatic cult leader.

The word is also used in a more specific way to refer to Christians who pursue ecstatic or trancelike religious experiences (like speaking in tongues) that are outside of more mainstream beliefs.

Donnie Dumb**** does indeed seem to be able to influence some people, primarily by appealing to their worst impulses. That makes him a hate- and fear-monger, not charismatic. He is a shameless liar and con-artist. That makes him a sociopath and a crook, not charismatic. Trump is able to fool the credulous. That makes him a charlatan, not charismatic.

Charisma does not equate to goodness. But it does involve charm and grace, neither of which ex-President Pussygrabber possesses in the slightest. In the future, Republicans may lie to themselves that it was Trump's charisma that caused them to support such awfulness, but they will be lying to themselves then, much as they do now.

(If you want to argue that Trump is "charismatic" in that he gibbers nonsense while mangling Christianity, I'll give you a technical win, but I do not think that is how you meant it.)

He influenced millions of people to vote for him twice.

Also, would argue most politicians are shameless liars and that anyone who seeks the Presidency is likely a sociopath, like most leaders.

You can’t bend and twist charisma to mean what you want it. Hitler was charismatic and was able to draw a nation to atrocity. Charismatic is not being used here to substitute for “morally good.” A person can be evil and still have charisma; that’s how most sociopaths and narcissists succeed in life

"You can’t bend and twist charisma to mean what you want it [to]" is rather my point. If Trump were actually charismatic, he would have easily won re-election (among other things). Most of his voters would vote for a rubber pile of dog feces if it had an (R) after it - that they also voted for him says nothing about his charisma. That he lied more shamelessly and extensively than his competitors for the nomination is, again not charisma. He is capable of reading a crowd of suckers, and telling them what they want  to hear. He has a very real talent for that; he is a gifted charlatan. Someone who appeals to a carefully vetted audience,  yet reliably makes half (or more) of a generic audience despise him is not charismatic.

And to return to the original topic, there is nothing to indicate at this point that Trump is more electable than DeSantis. DeSantis can put (R) after his name just as well as Trump. DeSantis' lies and appeals to base instincts will be in complete sentences. And, unlikely Trump, DeStantis will not automatically drive half the population to the polls to oppose him.

[BlueSwan]

I don’t.

DeSantis has all the charisma and likability of a wet sock. He’s humorless, dour, as much of a charisma vacuum as Jeb Bush.

Say what you will about Trump, but you’ve gotta give him credit at least for being persuasive, funny, charismatic. He may not be a good man, or even that effective politically, but he’s got an infectious and charismatic persona.

Obama, similarly, was commanding, charismatic, a true leader just by the power of his oratory

DeSantis is even less appealing than Biden in terms of his personality. He’s got a whiny nasal voice, he’s dis likable; he’s seen as the “Don’t Say Gay” guy. His only support is from die hard Republicans; Trump had the support of anti establishment independents and people who would’ve been say Perot voters back in the 90s.

How can DeSantis win, even against a weakened Biden?

I agree with all of this. Every time I see DeSantis I'm left wondering how on earth this guy is seen as the heir apparent of the GQP.

If he really wins the presidency in 2024 he would be the least charismatic since GHWB and he's pretty unlikable as well. Joe Biden is often criticized for being uncharismatic, but he is very likable and someone America generally feels at ease with since he's been around forever and was Obamas VP for 8 years.

Joe Biden: Uncharismatic but likable.
Donald Trump: Highly charismatic, not likable.
Barack Obama: Highly charismatic, quite likable.
George W. Bush: Somewhat charismatic and very likable.
Bill Clinton: Highly charismatic and very likable.
George H.W.Bush: Neither charismatic or particularly likable. Mostly benefitted from being seen as competent and had a solid reputation as RR's VP.
Ronald Reagan: Highly charismatic and likable.
Jimmy Carter: Not charismatic but very likable.
Gerald Ford: Not charismatic. Probably neutral on likability.
Richard Nixon: Neither charismatic nor likable, but seen as highly competent.
Lyndon Johnson: Neither charismatic nor likable, but seen as highly competent.
John F. Kennedy: Highly charismatic and likable.

Going back further is probably pointless.

[Person Man]

Trump is only persuasive to idiots, only funny unintentionally, and only charismatic to psychopaths.

Yes but that is “charisma”.

[Person Man]

If he wins, he is going to be a disaster for Republicans downballot outside of maybe Florida.