Opinion of these Abrahamic religions
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  Opinion of these Abrahamic religions
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Question: Opinion of these Abrahamic religions
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Author Topic: Opinion of these Abrahamic religions  (Read 3474 times)
afleitch
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« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2022, 03:43:45 PM »

Yes, you do.

You absolutely do see the same 'evidence' in so far as the same outcomes are attributed to prayer and offerings as in the Christian faith, by those who adhere to other faiths.

I would suggest reading Craig Keener's work Miracles, many of which specifically focus on missionary activity to areas with little Christian presence, and showing comparable miracles specifically done in connection with the missionary work of other faiths in areas where that faith is not very present.  

The fact that we such an intense concentration of miracles in association with Christian mission is a clear mark of divine favor.

Craig Keener is a Christian theologian and apologist.

     Which gave him the motivation to find these miracle testimonies. Citing it to dismiss him out of hand is analogous to a juror dismissing a prosecutor's arguments for the guilt of a defendant because the prosecutor is acting out of a professional obligation to try and convict the defendant, yet nobody tries to defend that course of action.

It's absolutely not an 'out of hand' criticism.

https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2022/07/miracles-today-a-medical-critique-of-craig-keeners-miracle-claims/
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Mopsus
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« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2022, 05:18:25 PM »

The New Testament is essentially an awkward combination of egregious slave morality ("the meek shall inherit the earth"... who actually believes this? When someone hits you, turn the other cheek toward them so they can hit it too... this is one of the dumbest pieces of advice I have ever heard. When someone hits you, hit them back. Defend yourself, don't be a wallflower.)

Except we know what happened to the members of Jesus’ generation who violently resisted the Roman Empire: their holy city was ravaged and their people were scattered to the four winds. Meanwhile, the people who were commanded to love their enemies ultimately vanquished them.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2022, 05:53:10 PM »

Yes, you do.

You absolutely do see the same 'evidence' in so far as the same outcomes are attributed to prayer and offerings as in the Christian faith, by those who adhere to other faiths.

I would suggest reading Craig Keener's work Miracles, many of which specifically focus on missionary activity to areas with little Christian presence, and showing comparable miracles specifically done in connection with the missionary work of other faiths in areas where that faith is not very present.  

The fact that we such an intense concentration of miracles in association with Christian mission is a clear mark of divine favor.

Craig Keener is a Christian theologian and apologist.

     Which gave him the motivation to find these miracle testimonies. Citing it to dismiss him out of hand is analogous to a juror dismissing a prosecutor's arguments for the guilt of a defendant because the prosecutor is acting out of a professional obligation to try and convict the defendant, yet nobody tries to defend that course of action.

It's absolutely not an 'out of hand' criticism.

https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2022/07/miracles-today-a-medical-critique-of-craig-keeners-miracle-claims/

     The article is an interesting one, but I think it sets something of an impossible standard with regards to Rfayette citing miraculous healings in mission fields, because many of these places lack medical infrastructure to sufficiently document these miracles. My wife grew up on a farm in Colombia, where medical care was hard to come by and what care existed was well below modern standards. They were persuaded to become Pentecostal when several members of the family and others in the community experienced miraculous healings after being prayed over.

     Dr. May would probably say that these should not be regarded as trustworthy, because they were not sufficiently documented by a medical professional, but it ignores the reality that this was not something feasible within this community, and indeed is seldom feasible in mission fields. Nevertheless people did experience dramatic healings which had been absent from the community until then, and many were persuaded to convert on account of it.
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Nathan
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« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2022, 11:59:41 AM »

Yes, you do.

You absolutely do see the same 'evidence' in so far as the same outcomes are attributed to prayer and offerings as in the Christian faith, by those who adhere to other faiths.

I would suggest reading Craig Keener's work Miracles, many of which specifically focus on missionary activity to areas with little Christian presence, and showing comparable miracles specifically done in connection with the missionary work of other faiths in areas where that faith is not very present.  

The fact that we such an intense concentration of miracles in association with Christian mission is a clear mark of divine favor.

Craig Keener is a Christian theologian and apologist.

     Which gave him the motivation to find these miracle testimonies. Citing it to dismiss him out of hand is analogous to a juror dismissing a prosecutor's arguments for the guilt of a defendant because the prosecutor is acting out of a professional obligation to try and convict the defendant, yet nobody tries to defend that course of action.

The people charged with findings of fact are jurors themselves, not prosecutors, and jurors absolutely are disqualified for having a vested interest in the outcome of the case. The equivalent of a prosecutor would be either the person making the miracle claim or someone attempting to dispute it.
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« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2022, 12:51:38 PM »

1.Neutral on Muslims who were beginners in the hood as Five-Percenters before something must've got in them which turned them all into sinners. Disapprove of most others due to their rampant misogyny as well as a personal visceral hatred of Turkey which falls right behind fishing and spinach pie as the only aspects I claim of my 3rd-generation Greek-American heritage.
2.Disapprove of Christians for as The Amazing Atheist once said, "The Quran may be written better however the Bible certainly burns better."
3.Neutral on Jews. While I respect their insularity and appreciate their contribution of bagels as my sandwich bun de rigueur, in my experience they tend to disproportionately love the booger sugar.

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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2022, 05:37:23 PM »

Yes, you do.

You absolutely do see the same 'evidence' in so far as the same outcomes are attributed to prayer and offerings as in the Christian faith, by those who adhere to other faiths.

I would suggest reading Craig Keener's work Miracles, many of which specifically focus on missionary activity to areas with little Christian presence, and showing comparable miracles specifically done in connection with the missionary work of other faiths in areas where that faith is not very present.  

The fact that we such an intense concentration of miracles in association with Christian mission is a clear mark of divine favor.

Craig Keener is a Christian theologian and apologist.

     Which gave him the motivation to find these miracle testimonies. Citing it to dismiss him out of hand is analogous to a juror dismissing a prosecutor's arguments for the guilt of a defendant because the prosecutor is acting out of a professional obligation to try and convict the defendant, yet nobody tries to defend that course of action.

The people charged with findings of fact are jurors themselves, not prosecutors, and jurors absolutely are disqualified for having a vested interest in the outcome of the case. The equivalent of a prosecutor would be either the person making the miracle claim or someone attempting to dispute it.

     In my analogy Keener was the prosecutor and afleitch was the juror, but the point that a juror must not have a vested interest is well taken. Keeping that criterion in mind, I don't know if there is a single person on the forum who could actually be seated as a juror in a case where the matter being tried was the credibility of miracle testimonies.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2022, 04:00:12 PM »

a juror in a case where the matter being tried was the credibility of miracle testimonies.

Next God’s Not Dead sequel?
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UWS
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« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2023, 05:33:26 AM »

Approve of Christianity, Judaism
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Blue3
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« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2023, 10:55:01 PM »

In addition to Baha'i, I feel like Zoroastrianism is interlinked enough with the Abrahamic faiths to be mentioned along with them.
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