J6 Committee in disarray over Electoral Collage

[THG]

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1533559629707362304?s=21&t=P4Prg-mm...

https://twitter.com/varadmehta/status/1533569494211248133?s=21&t=P4Prg-mmW1Y...

Almost like the whole thing was a partisan scam all along.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

[THG]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

Exactly.

Focusing on solutions like “abolishing the EC” makes it look like a #Resistance pipedream (which it was all along, frankly).

[Hindsight was 2020]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions to themselves.

[THG]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

People violently disrupting congressional events is not unique to the electoral collage.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

This is missing the forest for the trees. The Trump backers who did these things would invent whatever justification they needed. Whatever it takes.
Human beings can get remarkably self-serving and self-righteous when they see it fit to do so.

[Hammy]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

January 6 was a formal, binding counting of the electoral votes which is wholly unnecessary once the states have certified the votes. While the two are linked, abolishing the law that makes this binding (or even a required process in the first place) would fall more under congressional jurisdiction instead of discussion of the electoral college as a whole, as abolishing the EC requires a constitutional amendment.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

This is missing the forest for the trees. The Trump backers who did these things would invent whatever justification they needed. Whatever it takes.
Human beings can get remarkably self-serving and self-righteous when they see it fit to do so.

If anything you’re missing the forest for the trees on this as post J6 the biggest issue in republican primaries for governors and sos right now is whether the candidate will use their office to make sure that electorates who will pick Trump in 2024 are put in place

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

This is missing the forest for the trees. The Trump backers who did these things would invent whatever justification they needed. Whatever it takes.
Human beings can get remarkably self-serving and self-righteous when they see it fit to do so.

If anything you’re missing the forest for the trees on this as post J6 the biggest issue in republican primaries for governors and sos right now is whether the candidate will use their office to make sure that electorates who will pick Trump in 2024 are put in place

So, forgive me for an extended reply here. Just gonna make a few points.

Humans, organized into groups, have been in competition with each other over power since pretty much time immemorial. And these groups naturally can get somewhat hostile in some way (Carl Schmidt's theories pick up on this and retain relevance when looking at modern political cleveages; us vs them). Go look up Han Dynasty history and the clash between the eunechs and the Empress Dowagers, it's not too different, in that you also see the raw drive and desire for influence and power in the flesh.

Likewise, political divides can help foster certain elements of thinking. Group X is doing Y things in Z way and so on. This can get conspiratorial, obviously. I remember a left-leaning person online telling me that Bush stole Ohio in 2004! No one is completely free from this. Those who think otherwise are almost always either deluded or oblivious. Neither you nor I am. And because these conspiracies are sometimes true, there's no easy approach to this. Conspiracies do happen in politics, even though that's a space that is significantly more dry and boring than most would imagine it to be. (Kind of like how cop shows show dramatic stuff, and not all really all the time that gets spent on paperwork - that's boring)

In the context of the 2020 election, the idea that Democrats are doing X illegal things and Y will happen if we don't do Z thing inspired J6. That sort of climate and political environment can result in bad things no matter what the laws on the books are or what the electoral laws say. True panaceas, imo, are hard to find in politics. It's the art of governing human society and wielding the power of government, with perfection being often sought even if it's practically impossible in practice, all while "perfection" is far from uniformly defined. Didn't Lincoln say you could satisfy all the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but you can't satisfy all the people all of the time?

I apologize if this is overly dry or academic, but I felt this had to be said.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

This is missing the forest for the trees. The Trump backers who did these things would invent whatever justification they needed. Whatever it takes.
Human beings can get remarkably self-serving and self-righteous when they see it fit to do so.

If anything you’re missing the forest for the trees on this as post J6 the biggest issue in republican primaries for governors and sos right now is whether the candidate will use their office to make sure that electorates who will pick Trump in 2024 are put in place

So, forgive me for an extended reply here. Just gonna make a few points.

Humans, organized into groups, have been in competition with each other over power since pretty much time immemorial. And these groups naturally can get somewhat hostile in some way  (Carl Schmidt's theories pick up on this and retain relevance when looking at modern political cleveages; us vs them). Go look up Han Chinese history and the clash between the eunechs and the Empress Dowagers, it's not too different.

Likewise, political divides can help foster certain elements of thinking. Group X is doing Y things in Z way and so on. This can get conspiratorial, obviously. I remember a left-leaning person online telling me that Bush stole Ohio in 2004! No one is completely free from this. Those who think otherwise are almost always either deluded or oblivious. Neither you nor I am. And because these conspiracies are sometimes true, there's no easy approach to this. Conspiracies do happen in politics, even though that's a space that is significantly more dry and boring than most would imagine it to be. (Kind of like how cop shows show dramatic stuff, and not all really all the time that gets spent on paperwork - that's boring)

In the context of the 2020 election, the idea that Democrats are doing X illegal things and Y will happen if we don't do Z thing inspired J6. That sort of climate and political environment can result in bad things no matter what the laws on the books are or what the electoral laws say. True panaceas, imo, are hard to find in politics. It's the art of governing human society and wielding the power of government, with perfection being often sought even if it's practically impossible in practice, all while "perfection" is far from uniformly defined. Didn't Lincoln say you could satisfy all the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but you can't satisfy all the people all of the time?

I apologize if this is overly dry or academic, but I felt this had to be said.

So don’t do anything about the electoral college despite and the fact the way it’s set up caused J6 and is going to likely be exploited by the Right in 2024 to kill democracy because all conflict it’s just a Darwinian struggle for dominance?

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

The arguments being put forward in this thread by some of the more cerulean members are certainly words

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

Bold of you to assume that the most gullible/radical/tool-ish of Trump supporters would need the existence of Electoral College to justify their actions.

Trump and his minions were telling them this stuff for weeks on social media. Good grief are you two just gaslighting at this point or completely oblivious to how the electoral college is directly linked to what happened on J6?

This is missing the forest for the trees. The Trump backers who did these things would invent whatever justification they needed. Whatever it takes.
Human beings can get remarkably self-serving and self-righteous when they see it fit to do so.

If anything you’re missing the forest for the trees on this as post J6 the biggest issue in republican primaries for governors and sos right now is whether the candidate will use their office to make sure that electorates who will pick Trump in 2024 are put in place

So, forgive me for an extended reply here. Just gonna make a few points.

Humans, organized into groups, have been in competition with each other over power since pretty much time immemorial. And these groups naturally can get somewhat hostile in some way  (Carl Schmidt's theories pick up on this and retain relevance when looking at modern political cleveages; us vs them). Go look up Han Chinese history and the clash between the eunechs and the Empress Dowagers, it's not too different.

Likewise, political divides can help foster certain elements of thinking. Group X is doing Y things in Z way and so on. This can get conspiratorial, obviously. I remember a left-leaning person online telling me that Bush stole Ohio in 2004! No one is completely free from this. Those who think otherwise are almost always either deluded or oblivious. Neither you nor I am. And because these conspiracies are sometimes true, there's no easy approach to this. Conspiracies do happen in politics, even though that's a space that is significantly more dry and boring than most would imagine it to be. (Kind of like how cop shows show dramatic stuff, and not all really all the time that gets spent on paperwork - that's boring)

In the context of the 2020 election, the idea that Democrats are doing X illegal things and Y will happen if we don't do Z thing inspired J6. That sort of climate and political environment can result in bad things no matter what the laws on the books are or what the electoral laws say. True panaceas, imo, are hard to find in politics. It's the art of governing human society and wielding the power of government, with perfection being often sought even if it's practically impossible in practice, all while "perfection" is far from uniformly defined. Didn't Lincoln say you could satisfy all the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but you can't satisfy all the people all of the time?

I apologize if this is overly dry or academic, but I felt this had to be said.

So don’t do anything about the electoral college despite and the fact the way it’s set up caused J6 and is going to likely be exploited by the Right in 2024 to kill democracy because all conflict it’s just a Darwinian struggle for dominance?

The EC is neither here nor there. I don't adhere to and explicitly reject Social Darwinism overall, though some of what Darwin said could probably be used to inform one's view of political struggles from an analytical perspective (i.e. to inform how one can think tactically).
If we end up with a RW political party in this country that believes in actually destroying democracy in this country, we're probably screwed either way. This nation's division will render it unable to project influence and enforce world peace as well, and China and Russia and other players will benefit the most from that.

[emailking]

Sounds like it's more disagreement than disarray.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its partisan tribalism that keeps Trump around. Democrats expect Republicans to "eat the loss" on several fronts out of the quixotic demand for atonement over what happened. The problem with this is that Democrats think "reasonable" Republicans aren't sincere (just callous calculators who want tax cuts) and everyone else is just crazy. Therefore, they cannot imagine why Republicans "won't do what is necessary" to be rid of Trump. The present of these faux Republican consultants, ex-neocon Republicans and people who are completely glued into the beltway mindset in their orbit, furthers this fundamental misinterpretation.

Kemp didn't defeat election denialism by abandoning his tribe, McCormick didn't almost defeat Trump's candidate, by imitating Charlie Dent. Going that route would just further solidifies Trump's hold and coronate his picks.

Trump will fade once the paradigm his nomination created is generally accepted, because his nomination was a revolt against the establishment and his success in becoming President, means any attempts to "turn the clock back" will just rally 67% to 75% of Republicans around Trump or his pick (see TX AG). 

This is why Liz Cheney would never defeat Trump and could not get more than 20% or maybe 25% tops in a primary for President, nor would any Never Trumper or neocon do any better.

[NewYorkExpress]

One of the solutions the January 6 committee should recommend, but probably won't is blocking off access to the Capitol to anyone who is not a member of Congress or who is being summoned for a Congressional Hearing (yes, this means ending the Congressional internship program, and telling Congressional staff they can no longer enter the Capitol Buliding).

[Dr. MB]

One of the solutions the January 6 committee should recommend, but probably won't is blocking off access to the Capitol to anyone who is not a member of Congress or who is being summoned for a Congressional Hearing (yes, this means ending the Congressional internship program, and telling Congressional staff they can no longer enter the Capitol Buliding).

I'm for this if it means members of congress have to take over the jobs of janitors and scrub the floors themselves.

[Waldo]

Seeing how nobody has been charged with the crime of insurrection, the J6 Committee shouldn't exist in the first place. Even if there was a legitimacy to the committee, the Electoral College would be beyond its purview. Nobody should even care what they think about the EC because it's not up to them.

[Joe Republic]

Whether or not we have an Electoral College is not a matter that ought to be a concern of the J6 Committee.
Its focus ought to be on breaking of the law by those who engaged in the breaching of the Capitol and those who may or may not have cooperated in that, and what they knew, expected, felt, et cetera. Not something like this.
If there is nothing left to investigate, it should be shut down with dignity.

J6 literally happened because of the electoral college and the fact Trump, his minions, and the people who participate in the riot did so because of the loopholes in the electoral college nominating process

People violently disrupting congressional events is not unique to the electoral collage.

"Violently".  Sure, a small group of people yelling and holding up signs is the exact same thing as this:

Also, it's college.

[Hammy]

Seeing how nobody has been charged with the crime of insurrection, the J6 Committee shouldn't exist in the first place. Even if there was a legitimacy to the committee, the Electoral College would be beyond its purview. Nobody should even care what they think about the EC because it's not up to them.

Insurrection isn't generally something you're "charged with" in the first place.  Charges for participating in one, however, would include civil disorder and sedition/conspiracy, which 800+ people have been charged with.

[Waldo]

Seeing how nobody has been charged with the crime of insurrection, the J6 Committee shouldn't exist in the first place. Even if there was a legitimacy to the committee, the Electoral College would be beyond its purview. Nobody should even care what they think about the EC because it's not up to them.

Insurrection isn't generally something you're "charged with" in the first place.  Charges for participating in one, however, would include civil disorder and sedition/conspiracy, which 800+ people have been charged with.

Civil disorder is a relatively minor charge. Only the most oppressive governments would consider equating civil disorder with insurrection.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The only way VOTING RIGHTS is accomplished is getting rid of Filibuster because the S isn't gonna pass it, it was blocked

[Waldo]

The only way VOTING RIGHTS is accomplished is getting rid of Filibuster because the S isn't gonna pass it, it was blocked

Tell that to Georgia.

[Hammy]

Seeing how nobody has been charged with the crime of insurrection, the J6 Committee shouldn't exist in the first place. Even if there was a legitimacy to the committee, the Electoral College would be beyond its purview. Nobody should even care what they think about the EC because it's not up to them.

Insurrection isn't generally something you're "charged with" in the first place.  Charges for participating in one, however, would include civil disorder and sedition/conspiracy, which 800+ people have been charged with.

Civil disorder is a relatively minor charge. Only the most oppressive governments would consider equating civil disorder with insurrection.

Civil disorder is a federal felony that carries a 5-10 year prison sentence. Nobody on earth would consider that a "minor charge" unless you have no idea what it actually is.

Either you're confusing an insurrection with treason (the latter has an exceptionally high bar for, especially if you aren't working for a foreign power, and even revolts don't usually involve such charges according to legal code), or you're confusing civil disorder with civil disobedience.